Im getting closer to picking a sub design to build, thanks to a lot of feedback from folks here (thanks guys on helping me see the tapped horns are the new FLH).
Iv narrowed it down to the THAM12 or MTH30. Im finding that the cab size and frequency range balance is what I need for now.
Has anyone built both of these and compared in real life? If so wondering what your qualitative feedback is on sound, real world response (slippery slope I know), But also practical feedback, like:
-Best driver selection vs driver cost for each
-ease of build
-durability,
-Sound with stack of 6 cabs
-thought on matching tops
-or any thoughts..
Application is small club for now, but My plan is to build (2) 12" bass bins now , and add more later, and/or possibly add (2) TH18's later, but unsure if this is advisable..
To confuse things. The SS15 is on the radar too, but lets leave that unaddressed for now.
Iv narrowed it down to the THAM12 or MTH30. Im finding that the cab size and frequency range balance is what I need for now.
Has anyone built both of these and compared in real life? If so wondering what your qualitative feedback is on sound, real world response (slippery slope I know), But also practical feedback, like:
-Best driver selection vs driver cost for each
-ease of build
-durability,
-Sound with stack of 6 cabs
-thought on matching tops
-or any thoughts..
Application is small club for now, but My plan is to build (2) 12" bass bins now , and add more later, and/or possibly add (2) TH18's later, but unsure if this is advisable..
To confuse things. The SS15 is on the radar too, but lets leave that unaddressed for now.
I have the THAM12 but don't know what the MTH30 is. I would not call the THAM a sub by any means. If you build it and expect to get sub bass you will be disappointed. It is excellent for midbass though!
Thats kind of what im afraid of, but also kind of hoping to get that mid bass growl. I just worry that what ever is missing in the low bass doesnt make the system sound unbalanced to the point that its unpleasant. Like a "face kicker" type sound if that makes sense?
Would the SS15 be a better choice?
Would the SS15 be a better choice?
A 12 inch tapped horn that goes a bit lower ( 40 hz ) is the design of forsman https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/thorn-f1-a-learning-experiance-with-tapped-horn.224160/ or http://www.diysubwoofers.org/projects/other/POC3/
Iv not seen this one yet..Thanks!
I love the pic showing it in the back of an SUV for reference LOL
Looks really promising but cant seem to find the plan for it.. All links are dead on the thread too. Anyone know if there are plans available? Would be good to know at least the outside dims so I can compare size to MTH-30 and see if the extra low end per cab size is worth it.
Unsure of what the grid units are on the drawing. but I dont think 28X41 inches would fit in that SUV sideways ?
Looks really nice tho and uses a reasonable driver too!
I love the pic showing it in the back of an SUV for reference LOL
Looks really promising but cant seem to find the plan for it.. All links are dead on the thread too. Anyone know if there are plans available? Would be good to know at least the outside dims so I can compare size to MTH-30 and see if the extra low end per cab size is worth it.
Unsure of what the grid units are on the drawing. but I dont think 28X41 inches would fit in that SUV sideways ?
Looks really nice tho and uses a reasonable driver too!
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2/3/4th gen toyota 4runner will fit 41 from rear hatch to rear seat back with a trim up top at the seat back angle. This is similar to a ‘paraflex’ shown. But the ‘roar’ would work even better in this shape if needed. A 90 cm roar with a 12” $158 driver is pretty fun.but the beez kneez is 2.
Attachments
Any idea where I can find drawings and frequency respose for the thorn F1 as well? All links in thread seem to be broken.
Post 31 of the thorn f1 thread. Be aware that the soundlevel is calculated ifor a floor/wall placement. You have to deduct 6 db for a floor placement of the tapped horn
After comparing lots of these 12” designs I’m asking myself why the thorn F1 is not talked about more?
it’s fairly compact, touches 40-ish Hz at 98db+-, not as wide and cube like as other designs.
why is there only a 3 page thread on this cab?
am I missing something ?
it’s fairly compact, touches 40-ish Hz at 98db+-, not as wide and cube like as other designs.
why is there only a 3 page thread on this cab?
am I missing something ?
The POC3 checks in around 98dB/2.83V as well (theoretical), but 40 Hz designs based on single 12" drivers have limited peak output less it's a REALLY good 12" driver involved and you're tossing some pretty decent power at it Even then, a design based around a cheaper 15" driver is likely to spank it badly at lower frequencies.
Im hearing you on the 15s, but feeling like the 12's are going to meet packing requirements during this first phase.. Also I used to listen to the wicked sound system in San Francisco back in the day, and Im pretty sure thoes guys were using a wall of 12" turbosound FLHs, and I think a couple turbosound big 18s or 21s. Even though I know that system is a little out of date by todays standards, that system growled like like a mutha. And the magic was in the 12s.
So my reasoning is to build the 12" POC3 or Thorn F1 first, to get that tight growl. Then add a couple proper knee-wobbling sub bins later.
Has anyone even built The Thorn F1?
So my reasoning is to build the 12" POC3 or Thorn F1 first, to get that tight growl. Then add a couple proper knee-wobbling sub bins later.
Has anyone even built The Thorn F1?
I remember comparing the Tham 12 and MTH30 way back & posted this.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/mth30-questions-complete-noob.228434/post-3360322
The Tham is small - The MTH30 has a short path - Neither is optimal in my opinion. The MTH is a very early design.
A scaled up Tham fold is effective.
But SS15's rock - They compromise the lowest notes to gain efficiency. But make a big sound.
Best built with 18mm ply in my opinion. For another opinion read this..
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/single-sheet-th-challenge.170771/post-6898965
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/mth30-questions-complete-noob.228434/post-3360322
The Tham is small - The MTH30 has a short path - Neither is optimal in my opinion. The MTH is a very early design.
A scaled up Tham fold is effective.
But SS15's rock - They compromise the lowest notes to gain efficiency. But make a big sound.
Best built with 18mm ply in my opinion. For another opinion read this..
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/single-sheet-th-challenge.170771/post-6898965
Turbosound used 12" for their mid drivers around 1974, 15" FLH beneath. Turbosound TMS3 cabinets were popular in the USA after 1978, they used dual 15" and dual 10".
Much of the "growl" you remember may have been second harmonic distortion in the FLH 15" used from about 20Hz (the only HP in most active crossovers was to protect against "record rumble" and needle drops) up to 250Hz, the Turbomid 10" crossed in at 250Hz-3.7kHz, where most of the cabinet's magic was, a wide band midrange covering almost 4 octaves.
Fredrik Forsman's Thorn F1 was built from cheap materials for trying out the tapped horn concept, and was based on Anders Martinson's Tham 15.
Art
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LOL I thought that I finally had it locked in, and was going to build the POC3. It has a good 40hz response, good cab size, reasonable driver. But it seems folks keep pointing me to a 15" design, and usually refer to the SS15 specifically. So its back to analysis paralysis.
"Much of the "growl" you remember may have been second harmonic distortion in the FLH 15"
I knwow you folks are probably trying to avoid harmonic distortion, but dam it was fun listening to. Like an instrument of its own.
"The Turbomid 10" crossed in at 250Hz-3.7kHz, where most of the cabinet's magic was"
I think I know what you mean, my Martin Phillshaves seemed to have that mid-magic too.
"Much of the "growl" you remember may have been second harmonic distortion in the FLH 15"
I knwow you folks are probably trying to avoid harmonic distortion, but dam it was fun listening to. Like an instrument of its own.
"The Turbomid 10" crossed in at 250Hz-3.7kHz, where most of the cabinet's magic was"
I think I know what you mean, my Martin Phillshaves seemed to have that mid-magic too.
OK the search is over. Going for 4x tham15.
Thank you all for your advice and feedback, and thank you for putting up with my mis-educated questions.
-Something with plans available (im finding the digging educational and fun but im out of time)
-Will cross well with the Tham15 and pick up that warm low/mid
-mid/long throw design
-fit on top of tham15s when they are in a vertical orientation
-uses drivers that are still made, and mid price. and hopefully available in the USA
-prefer one that uses a single mid driver instead of dual, but not a deal breaker.
Should this be a new thread?
Thank you all for your advice and feedback, and thank you for putting up with my mis-educated questions.
weltersys
Iv been is such a bass bin tunnel that forgot about the mid/tops. Can you recommend a mid-top with a bit of throw to them, that would complement 4x tham15's?-Something with plans available (im finding the digging educational and fun but im out of time)
-Will cross well with the Tham15 and pick up that warm low/mid
-mid/long throw design
-fit on top of tham15s when they are in a vertical orientation
-uses drivers that are still made, and mid price. and hopefully available in the USA
-prefer one that uses a single mid driver instead of dual, but not a deal breaker.
Should this be a new thread?
Tham15 is high on my list for being a great compromise of size, output and driver cost - good choice as a capable and relatively compact box
If you are out of time for the difficult portion of the system, 100Hz and up, I'd suggest buying new or used top cabinets.
Complete cabinets are available for far less than you would pay for components:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=600014
"Low mid" would be around 200-1000 Hz, the Tham 15 is not going to sound great above around 125Hz.
"Long throw" used to mean narrow dispersion, which allowed for more SPL with less power. Small cabinets won't have narrow dispersion in the low mid area unless used in multiples.
If you want "long throw", the high cabinets must be elevated well above head level.
You could read through the first page of this to get an idea of what you are looking for:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...part-virtual-single-point-source-horn.264485/