Real noob questions.

[haffe]

Hello there. This is my first project so I could really need some help. I looked through the forum but couldn't find what i was looking for.
My idea is to build a cheap 5.1 or 7.1 surround system. I figured out that building the sattelites with full-range speakers and the sub as a sonotube sub would get me the most bang for the buck. Problem one. I have chosen to use the tangband W4-657S http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/w4-657s.htm
for the satelites and this one for the sub http://www.factory-outlet.nu/bilder/kurvads10stor.gif
Problem is where do I start? I could use some help designing the speakers, since they are full-range I wont need a filter?
Second how should I design the sub?
Third what is needed to build a sonosub? A sonotube, the speaker and some mdf? Do i need bass ports?
Thanks in advance.

 

[haffe]

I tried a bit with winisd and came up with these dimensions(12 mm mdf) closed cube.
W: 0.162 H: 0.244 D: 0.107.
What do you think?

 

[Jimmy154]

There's a lot of threads here about tb fullrange speakers. Some one who worked for http://www.nuera-acoustic.ca/products.html in one of the threads said the 3W-871s is hands down there best driver. But I like the one you've chosen cause it's bigger and has a bigger x-max. 4 mm instead of .5 mm

You probably don't need a filter. They start to roll off at 150 Hz. After all they are 4" drivers. Not sure about the whether they work best in a sealed or ported. See what WinISD recommends, go with it.

That sub has an fs of 31.17 after the mass added if I understand the specs correctly. In a 22.3 liter sealed box its F3 is 40 Hz. Pretty nice. 495:- what is that in USD?

 

[haffe]

There's a lot of threads here about tb fullrange speakers. Some one who worked for http://www.nuera-acoustic.ca/products.html in one of the threads said the 3W-871s is hands down there best driver. But I like the one you've chosen cause it's bigger and has a bigger x-max. 4 mm instead of .5 mm

You probably don't need a filter. They start to roll off at 150 Hz. After all they are 4" drivers. Not sure about the whether they work best in a sealed or ported. See what WinISD recommends, go with it.

That sub has an fs of 31.17 after the mass added if I understand the specs correctly. In a 22.3 liter sealed box its F3 is 40 Hz. Pretty nice. 495:- what is that in USD?

Ok thanks for the help. I don't really know if i should go with the 4" och 3".
I downloaded winISD but how do I check what box would be the best? Sealed box? That's one without ports? Just two holes(in case of a sonosub)? 495:- is around 53$

 

[Jimmy154]

I don't know what a sonosub is, but here's a link that will tell you what alignment to go with for your sub http://www.carstereo.com/help2/Articles.cfm?id=6

Both your sub and the 4" driver should go in a sealed box. WinISD suggests whether to go with sealed or vented. It's called EBP (third window, says: "box type"). The article above also explains EBP.

You will also find many other useful articles at this website. This is the thread where the guy who worked at nuera acoustics describes the 3" driver http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2960

The 4" will be lounder than 3" of course, but may only have desent on-axis response and not so good off-axis response. The 4" also has a peak at 10 KHz. People have also built MTM out of the 4" drivers and the 25-302s tweeters maybe they can give you the cross-over schmatic. Might sound better with 2 MTM in the front even for home theater than 4 separate surround sound speakers each with one 4" driver. Home theater might have a greater SPL demand then those speakers can handle😕 Definately sound better, in my opinion, for music.

 

[Thatch_Ear]

I heard the 3"ers a little over a year ago in a small ported box made by Danny Ritchie of GR Research. Danny makes a number of kits but I have no idea about if this in one of them. I am not a friend or associate of Danny's but I have heard some of his stuff.
The 3" TBs were in ported boxes that were around 8" tall, 4 wide and 3 deep. Sorry that I don't think in MMs. The port was around 1/2" wide and 3/4" deep. They were on stands so were head height when seated and were powerd by a class A SS amp of around 25 watts/ch. I was very impressed as these little things had great dynamics, were very fast and clean sounding and the voicing was absolutely stunning. I have not heard small sattalite with single drivers even come close to these.
Depending on how you are planning on placing these I would imagine that these would also make very good dipoles which for these would be very easy to do since there is no crossover involved and in series they would be 8 ohms.
In case you do not know what a dipole is you simply have another speaker on the back that is hooked up out of phase so that the air in a sealed box in never compressed. That will bounce an image off the wall behind and often create an illusion of more space.

 

[haffe]

Thanks guys. I ran winisd again and it suggested a sealed box. These were the values i fed it for the tangband.
Qts: 0,38
Vas: 6.2
Fs: 65
Re: 8
Le(What's that?) 0
Xmax: 0.003
Z(what's that?)0
Qms: 3.32
Qes: 0.46
SPL: 0.00
Pe(peak volume?): 0.0
BL 5.10
Dia: 0.025
Sd: 0

The optimal sealed cube should according to WinISD be W:0,162m= 6.38 inches H: 0.244m= 9.6 inches and D: 0.107 m = 4.2 inches using 0.012m mdf= around 1/2 inch. I think this sounds like a neat littles speaker. What do you think? This is my first project so please be patient.
A sonotsub as someone asked is a sub mounted in a casting tube. The tube would have a diameter of 150 mm and a length of 1486 mm. Should i add ports to the sub? Does this sound like a decent set-up?

 

[Jimmy154]

Re = DCR = 6 ohm, Z = nominal resistance = 8 ohm value, Pe is Power = 45 watts okay. None of these should be factors in the size of a sealed or ported enclosure. Maybe power, but I doubt it.

Okay last time 😉 your sub is optimised for a sealed enclosure (no ports).

A lot of your questions can be answered at the link I gave you. I know you just want to know what kind of speakers you should build and don't care about anything else. I was like that too, but unfortunately that's not the way it works you will find out just like I did. You will make big mistakes if you're not educated. Plus you won't understand what people hear are trying to tell you.

You're building 2 way speakers similar to bose cubes and then a sub. I used to own bose cubes and an acoustimas sub. I hated the way they sounded and they were ineffient.

 

[Westrock2000]

You know the first time I tried to swap in a pair of new cams, I found I didn't have the right tools, and it took me two days to get the thing running, cause I failed to notice one of the cam gears was off by one tooth. It was frustrating and it sucked and it was embarrassing, but I will never forget what it taught me.

I'm working on my first two projects, both a sonotube and some speakers (both will be sealed by the way), neither will probably be great, but I'll learn alot....and I'm looking forward to it.

But I do have alot of knowledge. So yes, learn stuff, but don't be afraid to fail.

BTW Le is the inductance of the drivers voice coil...probably around 1 mh for these, but I didn't see any published stuff.

 

[haffe]

Thanks. I did actually read the loudspeaker cookbook by Vance Dickason. I don't know if I really wan't to add a tweeter. These are for home cinema only since I already have a pair of good music speakers.

Re = DCR = 6 ohm, Z = nominal resistance = 8 ohm value, Pe is Power = 45 watts okay. None of these should be factors in the size of a sealed or ported enclosure. Maybe power, but I doubt it.

Okay last time 😉 your sub is optimised for a sealed enclosure (no ports).

A lot of your questions can be answered at the link I gave you. I know you just want to know what kind of speakers you should build and don't care about anything else. I was like that too, but unfortunately that's not the way it works you will find out just like I did. You will make big mistakes if you're not educated. Plus you won't understand what people hear are trying to tell you.

You're building 2 way speakers similar to bose cubes and then a sub. I used to own bose cubes and an acoustimas sub. I hated the way they sounded and they were ineffient.

 

[Jimmy154]

Just thought of something . . .

Are you using an amp to power your sub? A 10" or 25 cm sub in a sealed enclosure will not be loud enough for what you want for a home theater, I think. I would try to find a sub that goes in a vented enclosure for a home threater. I don't know how much shipping to Sweden would cost but ebay has subs pretty cheap. If you look you can get like 2 $85 a piece 10" vifa subs for like $75 for both plus shipping. If you want something cheap. I just bought 2 500 watts sub amps from some one I met on ebay for $130. Can get some good stuff if price is a big issue, like it is with me. I have no job oh wait this is the right face

 

[haffe]

Re: Just thought of something . . .

Yes I'm using an amp to power the sub.

Are you using an amp to power your sub? A 10" or 25 cm sub in a sealed enclosure will not be loud enough for what you want for a home theater, I think. I would try to find a sub that goes in a vented enclosure for a home threater. I don't know how much shipping to Sweden would cost but ebay has subs pretty cheap. If you look you can get like 2 $85 a piece 10" vifa subs for like $75 for both plus shipping. If you want something cheap. I just bought 2 500 watts sub amps from some one I met on ebay for $130. Can get some good stuff if price is a big issue, like it is with me. I have no job oh wait this is the right face

 

[Thatch_Ear]

If you go with the 3" Tang Bangs you will not need a tweeter. And with the foundation tube for your sub you will be building basically a bass cannon. Have fun.