The always "safe" adhesive is water based vinyl carpenter´s glue, known in USA as Elmer´s glue.
Solvent based rubber/neoprene/shoemaker cement is certified safe only with paper (cellulose) surrounds, destroys foam, and is unpredictable with rubber, which will always absorb some of the solvent present (typically Toluene or Xylene based) and swell, more or less.
It will not dissolve or be destroyed but may expand or contract and somewhat pull cone/vc out of alignment.
No big deal if you shimmed it, but if not, why risk it?
Water based adhesive is safe and slow, which in this case is a bonus.
Just my 2 cents.
Solvent based rubber/neoprene/shoemaker cement is certified safe only with paper (cellulose) surrounds, destroys foam, and is unpredictable with rubber, which will always absorb some of the solvent present (typically Toluene or Xylene based) and swell, more or less.
It will not dissolve or be destroyed but may expand or contract and somewhat pull cone/vc out of alignment.
No big deal if you shimmed it, but if not, why risk it?
Water based adhesive is safe and slow, which in this case is a bonus.
Just my 2 cents.
The water-based version of the shoe-repair by Pattex is called "gel repair glue" or "liquid repair glue". It is not as strong as the solvent-based one, but it is still quite good compared to other water-based ones
Juan, what you mention has already been said. I know of no interaction between 'rubber' surrounds and the products I mentioned.
And... Elmer's glue refers to the white PVA whereas 'carpenters glue' refers to yellow PVA.
Just my 2 cents friend. 😉
And... Elmer's glue refers to the white PVA whereas 'carpenters glue' refers to yellow PVA.
Just my 2 cents friend. 😉
First things first, you must remove the old glue from the frame basket or else the new glue will also fail. You can scrape or try a solvent such as the rather nasty MEK. Scraping is the preferred method.
The official loudspeaker glue used by many manufacturers is made by a company called Moyen. So although they make many products in the loudspeaker business the glue is just refered to as Moyen. You can find folks selling small tubes of it on the net.
The official loudspeaker glue used by many manufacturers is made by a company called Moyen. So although they make many products in the loudspeaker business the glue is just refered to as Moyen. You can find folks selling small tubes of it on the net.
Thanks for all the comments. Part of the difficulty is the international context: not everything is named the same everywhere, nor is available anywhere. I've ordered the copydex one, I'll see if it works out.
These surrounds definitely feel very different from a classic "rubber" surround. More smooth, less flexible, thinner too.
These surrounds definitely feel very different from a classic "rubber" surround. More smooth, less flexible, thinner too.
Friend: Not specially answering to you but in general, and in general, I am "answering to the thread and not any specific member", all rubber products are affected (as in absorbing and swelling) by typical "neoprene adhesive" or "rubber adhesive" solvents, namely Toluene and Xylene, I even mentioned them by name, to dispel any doubts.
Do you claim Toluene and Xylene do NOT affect Rubber products?
You are in for a surprise my friend.
From: Rubber Chemical Resistance, Rubber Chemical Compatibility, Page 6 - Mykin Inc
they rate a series of rubber types (covering 99.9% of those currently used in Industry) for their resistance to solvents.
It is a *comprehensive* list, covering about *any* chemical rubber may come in contact with.
Rubber types analyzed:
Resistance degree, from excellent to terrible:
For Toluene:
For Xylene:
meaning they are terrible for any kind of "rubber" conceivably used in a speaker surround.
Only a couple advanced "rubbers" stand them, such as Fluorosilicone 😱
I use the term "Elmer´s glue" out of politeness , addressing North American Forum members and using a term they are familiar with.
Even so my description was longer, maybe unnecessarily longer or redundant, just to make it more clear to members NOT in North America to which "Elmer" may mean a cartoon character instead of a glue local brand.
I used 11 words
while you reduce it to two, either
or
, as if they were mutually exclusive.
In my answer, they are not.
Maybe I was better understood by the OP:
FWIW this is what Wiki says about it (not claiming it´s the Bible by any means but certainly a popular reference site):
and
As to carpenter glues in general: PVA based carpenter´s glue is *white* , it´s it´s natural colur, and dries transparentish translucid, unless it has "load", solids added from various reasons, from starch in school kid´s glue which makes it "washable" (much to Mother´s relief) to mineral loads which give it added strength and stiffness and reduce contraction.
They also improve "sandability" (if that´s a term 😉 )
That there are *some* glues marketed to carpenters which are often dyed yellow for marketing purposes is not the point here.
Comparing White and Yellow Glues
who "should" know, says:
Mind you, that is an open Forum, so you will find differing opinions, some claim there IS a difference (besides colour, that is):
Gene initially says:
then he half retracts:
and then fully:
Consense in that page was:
In any case, those "improved" glues, of which *some* are yellow, are basically improved by making them easier to sand (hardly a concern with a speaker surround) and somewhat more water resistant.
Same thing.
(Somewhat) related side note: here in Argentina we are USED to regular economy crises, and as the Japanese say: "what does not kill you makesn you stronger".
More than once one product or the other dissappears from the Market, maybe speculation, maybe some imported component is unavailable, so I have *manufactured* stuff which usually is just bought over the counter.
Including, (but not limited to) *adhesives*. 😱
I have made my own *curing/polymerizing* carpenter´s glue (once it hardens it does not re dissolve, neither with steam nor with alcohol, which is the "universal" PVA solvent when dry) AND contact cement, out of yellow shoe sole rated "virgin rubber" sheets , aromatic solvents and a tacking agent.
Yeah, I guess that Fudd guy has had a longer shelf-life than the cows.
Elmer was a man-cow, Elsie The Cow's husband. Borden was doing milk-related (casein) research and products. Boring stuff. Elsie was the spokes-cow. (Several actual cows have played the part, in addition to the cute cartoon cow.)
"..in the 1940s ...98 percent of the American public recognized Elsie. At one time, she was better known than such imaginary figures as Mickey Mouse.."
Elsie mostly pitched 'food' milk (dry, homogenized, fortified, cheezes, ice cream). Elmer The Bull was invented for the Elmer Glue division. Pretty soon they introduced Glue-All, that runny white stuff, not made of milk but various poly***s.
Attachments
Use acetone remove old glue best you can. Then modge podge allow to go tacky then stick together you can still wiggle it around if you need too. Then some large clothes pegs large nuts or something to hold both parts together job done.
I've used this method on God knows how many speakers works everytime. Plus it's cheap not toxic and lasts ages. Another tip once you have opened up the tub use some masking tape to seal the top of the cap to the tub and it will stop air getting in. In other words if left for a while it will solidify. Stay away from all these rubber cements highly toxic not good for your health or the environment.
Anyhow maybe helpful
I've used this method on God knows how many speakers works everytime. Plus it's cheap not toxic and lasts ages. Another tip once you have opened up the tub use some masking tape to seal the top of the cap to the tub and it will stop air getting in. In other words if left for a while it will solidify. Stay away from all these rubber cements highly toxic not good for your health or the environment.
Anyhow maybe helpful
When I want to remove the glue from either the Cone, or the Metal frame I use Hot Air in the range of 75 Degrees Max and it just comes off fine. There are two three manufacutrers which this doen't work but these you can count on one hand.
JBL, Beyma, just to name two, selling replacement Kids, Inexpensive ones when looked a the new Price of 10" or larger Woofer. I don't know if this is also true for USA, but sure here in Europe we can order them.
That's my 2 Cents..
Hope this helps somewhat.
JBL, Beyma, just to name two, selling replacement Kids, Inexpensive ones when looked a the new Price of 10" or larger Woofer. I don't know if this is also true for USA, but sure here in Europe we can order them.
That's my 2 Cents..
Hope this helps somewhat.
Thanks for the additional tips and suggestions. 🙂
I did it by scraping carefully most of the old glue, put copydex on both sides, let it rest 15min and then pressed it by simply laying the driver upside down (it's an inverted surround with thick felt for back mounting). It is holding fine for now.
I did it by scraping carefully most of the old glue, put copydex on both sides, let it rest 15min and then pressed it by simply laying the driver upside down (it's an inverted surround with thick felt for back mounting). It is holding fine for now.
Do you mean something like this?
Best regards!
