Hi,I am a amateur audiophile so my descriptions will be vague,sorry.I have a small room and was wondering what the biggest speaker i could go is.I want a full range speaker and have been looking at the AN FR range.My brother has the super 8's Alnico's they sound awesome...but i like a bigger sound (maybe ob?),i like more bass and depth.My room is 11ft w x8ft hx8ft .I listen to all genres,from classical to grunge/punk
The other factor is they will not always be in this room,I'm moving into a house in a few mnths so i cant afford to buy another pair then.
What speaker size be the best ?what are the ramifications of a big speaker in a small room?(10"-12")
I do not need volume,but like SPL and quality and low volume.(and i don't like headphones)Any help would be great,thank you
The other factor is they will not always be in this room,I'm moving into a house in a few mnths so i cant afford to buy another pair then.
What speaker size be the best ?what are the ramifications of a big speaker in a small room?(10"-12")
I do not need volume,but like SPL and quality and low volume.(and i don't like headphones)Any help would be great,thank you
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Hmm, a point source driver's response narrows up to ~90 deg when it's ~1 WL across it's effective piston diameter, so in round numbers the AN S8 is ~6.93", so ~13560"_sec/6.93" = ~1957 Hz or ~right at our ~2 kHz peak hearing acuity frequency.
If this ~2 kHz, 90 deg 'cone' emanating from where you want the drivers doesn't cover the entire listening area [Lp] when toe'd in enough to keep it from reflecting off the side walls in front of the Lp, then the driver is too large, ergo if it overlaps it too much, then it's too small.
From this we see that short Lp distances require small drivers and long distances require large drivers and at some point we have to resort to line arrays for really close up and horn type waveguides for really far away; so you may have to ‘split the difference’ depending on how much disparity there may be between the two rooms.
That, or design for small and replicate its speaker/LP layout in a section of the larger room, or do as I once did and make the ‘monsters’ you want and accept the way too near LP to properly enjoy stereo recordings for the time being [a pair of ‘small’ 54” x 30” x 24” theater horn speakers in a ~10 ft^2 bedroom in my case].
Note that ideally we want this frequency to be below ~1 kHz, which requires a 15" driver or acoustically equivalent baffle width, but this isn't acceptable to many single driver speaker folks, so using furniture, wall hangings is popular to damp early wall reflections.
Also, 'coffee' tables or other reflective surface between the speakers and Lp is a no-no unless properly damped.
All that said, your stated requirements require at least a 15”, so probably the real question is whether or not you can/want to afford a pair of AN15 and the huge cabs it requires.
GM
If this ~2 kHz, 90 deg 'cone' emanating from where you want the drivers doesn't cover the entire listening area [Lp] when toe'd in enough to keep it from reflecting off the side walls in front of the Lp, then the driver is too large, ergo if it overlaps it too much, then it's too small.
From this we see that short Lp distances require small drivers and long distances require large drivers and at some point we have to resort to line arrays for really close up and horn type waveguides for really far away; so you may have to ‘split the difference’ depending on how much disparity there may be between the two rooms.
That, or design for small and replicate its speaker/LP layout in a section of the larger room, or do as I once did and make the ‘monsters’ you want and accept the way too near LP to properly enjoy stereo recordings for the time being [a pair of ‘small’ 54” x 30” x 24” theater horn speakers in a ~10 ft^2 bedroom in my case].
Note that ideally we want this frequency to be below ~1 kHz, which requires a 15" driver or acoustically equivalent baffle width, but this isn't acceptable to many single driver speaker folks, so using furniture, wall hangings is popular to damp early wall reflections.
Also, 'coffee' tables or other reflective surface
All that said, your stated requirements require at least a 15”, so probably the real question is whether or not you can/want to afford a pair of AN15 and the huge cabs it requires.
GM
Sorry but I don't understand the passage that leads to the choice of a 15 " .
Those are even two !
Any logic would tell that with an 8 " you've already hit perfection in trading between dimension and efficiency ( the other being...bandwidth ?! ).
Indeed the magnitudes considered apply for crude pistonic action calculation.
When coming at suggesting something, I would stop at no more than 5 1/2"
😱
Those are even two !
Any logic would tell that with an 8 " you've already hit perfection in trading between dimension and efficiency ( the other being...bandwidth ?! ).
Indeed the magnitudes considered apply for crude pistonic action calculation.
When coming at suggesting something, I would stop at no more than 5 1/2"
😱
In a small room, this would require a large wave-guide to keep it from 'spraying' too much BW off of the walls, floor, ceiling and any other nearby reflective surfaces, 'bleeding off' acoustic efficiency and causing too much delayed reflections comb filtering with the driver's output.
GM
1.1k..ish...
2. I have a DIY 6l6 12 watt pch amp but have no speakers & a Behringer Ultragraph DEQ1024 EQ.I used this system with my brothers speakers(AN Super 8's AlniCo's) which i don't have anymore and did not use them at my current address nor can do again(he has moved interstate).I want some FR 12's-15's when i move in to my house in a few months- I like big sounds and SPL.This is why I'm asking as : Should i just do it now and 1.Suffer it? 2.Might sound a little crap but will be OK for 3 months?.3Unbarable and have the
's around every two hours!😀 4.Will be completely unusable until you move?5.Will be fine with EQ and low vol?Not using anything is not an option. Hence why I'm asking for advice?
A 7" subwoofer sounds a good combination with the agreement from all😛
Even a 6 " can perform better than any X-inches cone with little excursion ( X max )
A single subwoofer amplifier with electronic low-pass incorporated driving two
subs connected in series . That's my dream 😛🙄
It can be multiplied for stereo use...by two ! Boxes for the An 8 would be then minimal ( for reference -
I would say to use the lowest lowpass frequency allowed ...)
Btw " Being an amateur audiophile" collides with having a PEQ or not ?! 🙂
Even a 6 " can perform better than any X-inches cone with little excursion ( X max )
A single subwoofer amplifier with electronic low-pass incorporated driving two
subs connected in series . That's my dream 😛🙄
It can be multiplied for stereo use...by two ! Boxes for the An 8 would be then minimal ( for reference -
I would say to use the lowest lowpass frequency allowed ...)
Btw " Being an amateur audiophile" collides with having a PEQ or not ?! 🙂
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Right, so available power is a bit on the slim side.
IME, full-range speakers don't go well with "big SPL". Definitions of "loud" may vary, but I like to be able to get to the volume of a live drum kit without the system straining. I suspect this requires at least a two-way system (compression driver + 12-15" woofer), as I can't think of any single driver that'll cover 40Hz-20kHz at >100dB with acceptably low distortion. If anyone does know of something that'll do it, I'd be interested to know.
You could put almost any speakers you like into almost any room you like. You pretty much can't go too big, so long as the speaker itself is properly implemented. The low frequencies might need some eq'ing as room gain will kick in quite early with a smaller room, but stuffing/sealing ports etc would probably be enough.
Chris
IME, full-range speakers don't go well with "big SPL". Definitions of "loud" may vary, but I like to be able to get to the volume of a live drum kit without the system straining. I suspect this requires at least a two-way system (compression driver + 12-15" woofer), as I can't think of any single driver that'll cover 40Hz-20kHz at >100dB with acceptably low distortion. If anyone does know of something that'll do it, I'd be interested to know.
You could put almost any speakers you like into almost any room you like. You pretty much can't go too big, so long as the speaker itself is properly implemented. The low frequencies might need some eq'ing as room gain will kick in quite early with a smaller room, but stuffing/sealing ports etc would probably be enough.
Chris
thanks i understand what your saying.I should have said "bass output" as in "feeling" the kick.Does SPL mean "air moving" in Yes to me "Audio Nirvana" is attaining a sound as if a band is plying in my lounge room BUT i will never attain that.I have worked in the live music field and unless i can launch a couple of 18" subs and tons of other equipment in my lounge room that is NOT going to happen-that is for the sound i personally like .What is "room gain"?What does it do sonically?Do you mean "volume"?
Are you suggesting to make it like Allen B performed ? Total integration with the walls and maybe a bit of multi amp...
BTW a 5 1/2 now I'm using as a subwoofer...nothing hard, 10 W
8 " I consider it ...a sub-synthesized harmonic driver
And I consider a 2" a good driver for small rooms
I've no clue what you're referring to. Regardless, we obviously disagree as to what the best overall speaker choice for a given room size and/or listening distance is, not that it matters though, since it's up to the individual to choose the trade-offs that they believe will work the best overall for them.
GM
Yet another reason to go large [efficient].
I imagine the AN 15" can do pretty well overall same as RCA's '50-60s era 15" LC-1A if the cab is large enough. The nowadays ~unattainable Babb Lorelei could do 20-20 kHz at live piano bar levels over at least a ~140 deg power response thanks to 6th order compression loading a very wide BW point source with a >1” Xmax, preheated VC to keep thermal power compression low and at least 400 W music [peak] power handling [according to its designer, Alan Babb], though destruction testing was never done AFAIK, so may have been a conservative rating.
Bottom line, in a relatively large, live room and at least 16 ft away, in an impromptu A/B test with 250 W on tap, they were playing ‘loud n’ clear’ at SPLs that had Jim Griffin’s large Linus Arrays ‘warbling’ out of control.
Unfortunately, it’s a stillborn project AFAIK due to Babb going out of business and its buyer too apparently, or at least they’re not interested in further developing it for whatever reason. For sure, it will be quite expensive if ever released and probably doubly so since it can’t be repaired AFAIK, only replaced due to its need for ‘space shuttle’ quality permanent parts bonding.
Yeah, all my 'stereo' life I've had either horn loaded single or dual 15" + 350-500 Hz compression horns/channel with dual 15" 'stereo' subs, though in recent years just dual 15" + 500 Hz compression horns and sorely missing the subs.
One interesting revelation for me though has been that even with the ~9 dB/channel loss of efficiency, the more open tone of a wide baffle dual 15" sound more life-like overall, so have lost all interest in ever having [or recommending] mid-bass compression horns again, only WGs when space permits.
Yet another example of being doomed to repeat what history would have taught me had I paid attention.
To wit: at the time of cloning a pair of Altec A7-500 small cinema reflex horns, I was aware that one of the top three audio pioneers, John K. Hilliard [horn designer ‘par excellence’], had chosen built-in stone constructed I.B. loaded dual 15” + 500 Hz compression horns for his then new stereo system, but being so enamored of the ‘look’ of horns in my youth, I wrote off his choice as more a décor ‘statement’ of a ‘well healed’ [relatively wealthy] old man than a ‘cost no object’ performance one.
Oh well, better to learn ~40 years too late than never.
GM
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All very nice, but the OP's current (temporary) room is described as 704 ft^3 - (11x8x8ft), and if I read his original post correctly, indicated the preference for quality at "lower volumes".
Why not start with something simple that could be expanded upon after moving to (as yet uncertain?) larger space - like say a Alpair7.3 in small bookshelf vented enclosure if floorspace is not currently available. Woofers could be added as/when required.
Why not start with something simple that could be expanded upon after moving to (as yet uncertain?) larger space - like say a Alpair7.3 in small bookshelf vented enclosure if floorspace is not currently available. Woofers could be added as/when required.
Simply because it can't be upgraded to what he claims he wants long term without 'jacking them up' 4-5 ft and sliding a new system into place.
'Bigger' [open] sound needs plenty of acoustic displacement [efficiency] even at 'lower volumes', and by 'open', I don't mean all the added early reflections ['ambiance'/harmonic distortion] that small drivers generate that is so 'near n' dear' to many 'FR' driver's aficionados, me included in some apps.
Regardless, we’ve sufficiently made our points, both pros and cons AFAIC, so now it’s up to Masliko [or any lurking ‘fence sitter’] to decide where along our two system design extremes might work best overall for him in his app.
GM
'Bigger' [open] sound needs plenty of acoustic displacement [efficiency] even at 'lower volumes', and by 'open', I don't mean all the added early reflections ['ambiance'/harmonic distortion] that small drivers generate that is so 'near n' dear' to many 'FR' driver's aficionados, me included in some apps.
Regardless, we’ve sufficiently made our points, both pros and cons AFAIC, so now it’s up to Masliko [or any lurking ‘fence sitter’] to decide where along our two system design extremes might work best overall for him in his app.
GM
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