Caps in Rogue
Okay,
There are 14 total caps in the rouge (6 on one board and 8 on the other).
6 electro caps on one board are Xicon 2200uf 25v
4 electro caps on other board are Xicon 100uf 100v
2 coupling M-Cap?? (Audiophilier MPK Kondensator) 400VCD 2.2uF
2 couping M-Cap?? (Audiophilier MPK Kondensator) 630VCD .47uF
Does that help you out?
Thanks,
Dan
Okay,
There are 14 total caps in the rouge (6 on one board and 8 on the other).
6 electro caps on one board are Xicon 2200uf 25v
4 electro caps on other board are Xicon 100uf 100v
2 coupling M-Cap?? (Audiophilier MPK Kondensator) 400VCD 2.2uF
2 couping M-Cap?? (Audiophilier MPK Kondensator) 630VCD .47uF
Does that help you out?
Thanks,
Dan
Yes the electrolytics are quite cheap and definatly worth replacing. I know the 25 volt ones could easily be replaced with a 35 volt rated Elna Cerafine or Nichicon KZ, though I'm unsure of exact available values. As for the 100 volt, you would have to look around, but again, I believe there are plenty available. Those caps are definatly worth replacing and the options I gave would be a clear upgrade with a small cost. If you are willing, Blackgates are said to be better, though I happen to disagree that the stander series are any better than the Elna's mentioned. On the other hand, the bipolars are quite good and worthwhile if you can afford it.
As for the film caps, Those are the bottom of the line Mundorfs. They are quite good, and you may want to leave them alone. However, there is better. Those cost about 3-5 dollars each. You could replace the .47uf with a teflon from someone like V-Cap, Relcap, or Sonicap. The 2.2uf could be bypassed with a .01uf but only if its not in the RIAA cuircit. It will be far too expensive to get a very high end cap in that value, so I would either leave it alone, or upgrade it to a better one, but not so good as teflon. I believe that 2.2uf would be far too large a value to be in the RIAA cuircit, and so bypassing it with a .01uf teflon is a fine option. Otherwise, I would consider the Mundorf Silver in Oil or Oil and gold caps. Sonicap Platinum or GenI or Gen II would actually be an upgrade. Relcap also has some selfbypassed polystyrene's that I happen to really like and would also probably give at least a change in sound, if not an improvement.
Now that I know it has Xicon caps, I would also begin questioning the quality of the resistors, which can play a role in the noise floor of a low level device like this. They also can impact sound, arguably. I find them to be the biggest PITA to replace, but worthwhile if you are going all out. I would look at those, you won't know the brand, but depending on budget, I would consider replacing the critical ones with Cadocks, Vishay's, or possibly Riken's. Also, certain ones worth replacing are the RIAA stage resistors, but only for accuracy purposes, to ensure as accurate a curve as possible you want to match the resistors in each channel as closely as possible, and as closely to the specified values as possible. This is where a schematic will come in handy if you can get one.
Before I forget, power supply mods are always worthwhile in my opinion. More than likely the 2200uf caps are power supply caps, and I would recomend bypassing them with a film cap rated at .1uf and atleast 35 volts, but most film caps are rated quite a bit higher, so thats not a major issue. Some would argue that increasing the power supply capacitance will improve sound, and it might, but I think that giving a low impdenance current source is more important than capacitance in low level devices like this. I would say its worth increasing if you could tell me more about the style of regulatin being used, but without knowing that, I would be concerned with increasing it. None the less, its also an area worth looking at. Also, check to see if the opamps are bypassed, if not, bypass the power supply rails directly on the opamp. I recnetly did this with a .1uf Wima film and foil cap. I highly recomend it, its cheap, easy to do, and made a noticable improvement.
Again, look at the regulators, find out what the voltages are being regulated there, and look into upgrades. Depending on your financial situation and ability, its worth upgrading. If you can make a Jung regulator, consider that, if not there are lots of good prebuilt tables. Consider the Burson regulators or Audiocom. I think they really can offer an improvement over the single IC based regulation used on most mid priced components.
Beyond those mods, the only others worth maybe looking into, and I would do these last, and only if you really know what your doing, would be to have a custom wound transformer, say from Plitron, that has the voltages you need, but at a higher VA rating. It's probably not worthwhile, but if the transformer is not very large, it could potentially impact sound. Also, mounting all of the AC components in a seperate box might quiet things down. Basicly I would take the transformer and mount that in a seperate box, then using as short a cable as possibly, also move the rectification to that seperate box, and have a DC line going straight to the phonostage. That is only something I would do after doing everything else. Also, without seeing your phonostage, that may not be as easily done as I just said, but it could quiet things down.
As for the film caps, Those are the bottom of the line Mundorfs. They are quite good, and you may want to leave them alone. However, there is better. Those cost about 3-5 dollars each. You could replace the .47uf with a teflon from someone like V-Cap, Relcap, or Sonicap. The 2.2uf could be bypassed with a .01uf but only if its not in the RIAA cuircit. It will be far too expensive to get a very high end cap in that value, so I would either leave it alone, or upgrade it to a better one, but not so good as teflon. I believe that 2.2uf would be far too large a value to be in the RIAA cuircit, and so bypassing it with a .01uf teflon is a fine option. Otherwise, I would consider the Mundorf Silver in Oil or Oil and gold caps. Sonicap Platinum or GenI or Gen II would actually be an upgrade. Relcap also has some selfbypassed polystyrene's that I happen to really like and would also probably give at least a change in sound, if not an improvement.
Now that I know it has Xicon caps, I would also begin questioning the quality of the resistors, which can play a role in the noise floor of a low level device like this. They also can impact sound, arguably. I find them to be the biggest PITA to replace, but worthwhile if you are going all out. I would look at those, you won't know the brand, but depending on budget, I would consider replacing the critical ones with Cadocks, Vishay's, or possibly Riken's. Also, certain ones worth replacing are the RIAA stage resistors, but only for accuracy purposes, to ensure as accurate a curve as possible you want to match the resistors in each channel as closely as possible, and as closely to the specified values as possible. This is where a schematic will come in handy if you can get one.
Before I forget, power supply mods are always worthwhile in my opinion. More than likely the 2200uf caps are power supply caps, and I would recomend bypassing them with a film cap rated at .1uf and atleast 35 volts, but most film caps are rated quite a bit higher, so thats not a major issue. Some would argue that increasing the power supply capacitance will improve sound, and it might, but I think that giving a low impdenance current source is more important than capacitance in low level devices like this. I would say its worth increasing if you could tell me more about the style of regulatin being used, but without knowing that, I would be concerned with increasing it. None the less, its also an area worth looking at. Also, check to see if the opamps are bypassed, if not, bypass the power supply rails directly on the opamp. I recnetly did this with a .1uf Wima film and foil cap. I highly recomend it, its cheap, easy to do, and made a noticable improvement.
Again, look at the regulators, find out what the voltages are being regulated there, and look into upgrades. Depending on your financial situation and ability, its worth upgrading. If you can make a Jung regulator, consider that, if not there are lots of good prebuilt tables. Consider the Burson regulators or Audiocom. I think they really can offer an improvement over the single IC based regulation used on most mid priced components.
Beyond those mods, the only others worth maybe looking into, and I would do these last, and only if you really know what your doing, would be to have a custom wound transformer, say from Plitron, that has the voltages you need, but at a higher VA rating. It's probably not worthwhile, but if the transformer is not very large, it could potentially impact sound. Also, mounting all of the AC components in a seperate box might quiet things down. Basicly I would take the transformer and mount that in a seperate box, then using as short a cable as possibly, also move the rectification to that seperate box, and have a DC line going straight to the phonostage. That is only something I would do after doing everything else. Also, without seeing your phonostage, that may not be as easily done as I just said, but it could quiet things down.
Thanks
Thanks for your comments. I will look into those things. I do have a few questions. First, you are correct the 2200uF caps are power supply caps. You mentioned bypassing these caps with .1uf film caps. I assume you mean just replace the 2200 caps with a .1uF cap, correct? You also said something about the regulator. I am familiar with the Burson super regulator. How would I find out what it is regulating and the voltage of it? You also said something about bypassing the rails of the opamp with a 0.01 film cap. What do you mean by this?
Thanks again,
Dan
Thanks for your comments. I will look into those things. I do have a few questions. First, you are correct the 2200uF caps are power supply caps. You mentioned bypassing these caps with .1uf film caps. I assume you mean just replace the 2200 caps with a .1uF cap, correct? You also said something about the regulator. I am familiar with the Burson super regulator. How would I find out what it is regulating and the voltage of it? You also said something about bypassing the rails of the opamp with a 0.01 film cap. What do you mean by this?
Thanks again,
Dan
Bypassing does not mean replacing, it means you parallel it, basicly. In the case of the power supply cap, you don't replace it, you parallel a film cap onto the power supply cap. The idea is that it will become a path of least resistance within the all important frequency band, while still allowing the larger cap to filter out everything out of band you don't want. That band depends on the application, which is why I'm using very generic terms here.
As for bypassing an opamp, similar concept. If you look at the spec sheet for any given opamp, it will show you the pinout. You want to solder a small value film capacitor directly across the + and - leads of the opamp. So one lead of the cap goes to the + and the other lead of the cap goes to the -. Again, the idea is that it will help further clean up the power driving the small opamp.
As for upgrading the regulator, it all depends on the cuircit. I'm not familiar enough with that exact setup to know how it works, and honostly if you don't understand it, it might be too comlicated for me to try and help you understand it without having it infront of me. The one drawback of learning through forums instead of hands on. Basicly, find what feeds the power to the opamps. It must be something between say 9 and 15 volts. Thats a guess it could be anything between say 2 or 3 and as much as I think 20 in the case of some opamps. However typically you see more like 9-15, and 12 is very common. You don't have to use a regulated source for the opamp, but its very common and likely, since its easy and cheap to impliment, while offering better sound. Find that regulator that is feeding the opamp, find out what voltage is passing through it by testing the N and Out leads of the regulator. There should be both a + and a - regulator, so you would actually need two regulators. Then you just order the appropriate regulators and replace the monolithic IC regulators with the adjustable discrete regulator.
As for the tube portion of the cuircit, that is so varied I have no idea what would be the most common and practical way they would regulate that cuircit, or if its even worth messing with. I would have to take a look, but I have modified so few tube phonostages, especially hybrids, that I just don't know what is common.
Honostly, if you replace the film caps with better ones, replace the power supply caps with better ones, bypass a few, maybe upgrade the internal wire, it will make a worthwhile difference. Beyond that I would say then start looking into replacing the regulators, it will make a difference, but one of diminishing returns. Obviously I hope you have considered or already have tweaked the tubes, that will make a very large difference, on par with replacing opamps, if not more so. Given the sensitivity to microphonics in a phonostage, use as low a microphonic tube as possible, and maybe even consider a tube dampener of sorts.
As for bypassing an opamp, similar concept. If you look at the spec sheet for any given opamp, it will show you the pinout. You want to solder a small value film capacitor directly across the + and - leads of the opamp. So one lead of the cap goes to the + and the other lead of the cap goes to the -. Again, the idea is that it will help further clean up the power driving the small opamp.
As for upgrading the regulator, it all depends on the cuircit. I'm not familiar enough with that exact setup to know how it works, and honostly if you don't understand it, it might be too comlicated for me to try and help you understand it without having it infront of me. The one drawback of learning through forums instead of hands on. Basicly, find what feeds the power to the opamps. It must be something between say 9 and 15 volts. Thats a guess it could be anything between say 2 or 3 and as much as I think 20 in the case of some opamps. However typically you see more like 9-15, and 12 is very common. You don't have to use a regulated source for the opamp, but its very common and likely, since its easy and cheap to impliment, while offering better sound. Find that regulator that is feeding the opamp, find out what voltage is passing through it by testing the N and Out leads of the regulator. There should be both a + and a - regulator, so you would actually need two regulators. Then you just order the appropriate regulators and replace the monolithic IC regulators with the adjustable discrete regulator.
As for the tube portion of the cuircit, that is so varied I have no idea what would be the most common and practical way they would regulate that cuircit, or if its even worth messing with. I would have to take a look, but I have modified so few tube phonostages, especially hybrids, that I just don't know what is common.
Honostly, if you replace the film caps with better ones, replace the power supply caps with better ones, bypass a few, maybe upgrade the internal wire, it will make a worthwhile difference. Beyond that I would say then start looking into replacing the regulators, it will make a difference, but one of diminishing returns. Obviously I hope you have considered or already have tweaked the tubes, that will make a very large difference, on par with replacing opamps, if not more so. Given the sensitivity to microphonics in a phonostage, use as low a microphonic tube as possible, and maybe even consider a tube dampener of sorts.
Thanks
The Stealth is SS, not tube. I have attached a picture so you can see it. Do you do any mod work for other people? If so, send me an email at marchewd@yahoo.com.
Dan
The Stealth is SS, not tube. I have attached a picture so you can see it. Do you do any mod work for other people? If so, send me an email at marchewd@yahoo.com.
Dan
I don't really do much in the way of mods for other people, at least not as a business. I have done it for friends. Honostly I think I would not feel comfortable, so I would say, find one of the many other moders to work on it for you.
None the less, that is a very simple and easy to mod design, in my opinion. Its a really good setup with some realyl good parts in key places, so these mods wont make the kind of huge differences that some would.
First thing I would do is replace the diodes with FREDS, I like the IXYS brand, but lots are good. Telefunken makes a nice set too.
See the TO-220 style chips on the board, there are 4 of them, I believe those are your regulators. Those are the chips to change, more than likely all 4 of them for best results. Again, I would do that last.
Replace the power supply caps on the board, as I mentioned, that will make a difference I think.
Biggest difference will come from the film caps, replace those with something better. The higher end Mundorfs are excellent, as are the V-caps. Teflon would be very expensive, but also very nice improvement. I like copper foil caps like from Jensen, Audionote, and VTV. I'm also a fan of polystyrene caps from Relcap, and would recomend those. I would also consider bypassing the larger value film caps with a much smaller value teflon cap, such as a .01uf or so.
Beyond that I don't think there is a lot more you can do. I mean, you could try a discrete opamp like the burson, but honostly, I don't know if it will improve things, and it might become noisier. The resistors are good quality I wouldn't touch them unless you just want to change the sound, inwich case I would use Cadock for a cleaner sound and Riken for a warmer sound. Let me know if that helps give you any idea's at all.
Now you also have a Jolida phonopreamp correct. Not realizing that your phonostage was completely solidstate, I'm starting to wonder if more fun could be had with the Jolida. I mean, at least most could be done to it. I don't know that it will necassarily sound better, but I think it might. That one I have worked on, and I know it will need better resistors, caps, etc all over the place. Jolida uses a lot of cheap parts, but the designs are very good.
None the less, that is a very simple and easy to mod design, in my opinion. Its a really good setup with some realyl good parts in key places, so these mods wont make the kind of huge differences that some would.
First thing I would do is replace the diodes with FREDS, I like the IXYS brand, but lots are good. Telefunken makes a nice set too.
See the TO-220 style chips on the board, there are 4 of them, I believe those are your regulators. Those are the chips to change, more than likely all 4 of them for best results. Again, I would do that last.
Replace the power supply caps on the board, as I mentioned, that will make a difference I think.
Biggest difference will come from the film caps, replace those with something better. The higher end Mundorfs are excellent, as are the V-caps. Teflon would be very expensive, but also very nice improvement. I like copper foil caps like from Jensen, Audionote, and VTV. I'm also a fan of polystyrene caps from Relcap, and would recomend those. I would also consider bypassing the larger value film caps with a much smaller value teflon cap, such as a .01uf or so.
Beyond that I don't think there is a lot more you can do. I mean, you could try a discrete opamp like the burson, but honostly, I don't know if it will improve things, and it might become noisier. The resistors are good quality I wouldn't touch them unless you just want to change the sound, inwich case I would use Cadock for a cleaner sound and Riken for a warmer sound. Let me know if that helps give you any idea's at all.
Now you also have a Jolida phonopreamp correct. Not realizing that your phonostage was completely solidstate, I'm starting to wonder if more fun could be had with the Jolida. I mean, at least most could be done to it. I don't know that it will necassarily sound better, but I think it might. That one I have worked on, and I know it will need better resistors, caps, etc all over the place. Jolida uses a lot of cheap parts, but the designs are very good.
Thanks again
No problem. I understand. I will look into trying some of your ideas. I know I can replace caps and the diodes. How would I find out which Hexfreds to get (I know there are a lot of different versions). Also, how would I found out the voltages of the four regulators? I am having someone mod my Music Hall CD25 and I have to order some voltage regulators for him. I could easily order some more for the Rogue. How would I find out the voltage ratings of each of these regulators? The Burson's are just a drop in replacement. I can handle swapping out stuff, I just can determine when to bypass, change values, etc.
As for the Jolida. I have heard it can be great with replacement of the opamps (which I have 6 OPA627's for already). I have also got a matched set of GT12ax7-M tubes that sound great already. When you modded the Jolida, what do you do to it? How would I go about finding the correct values for the resistors and such. Also, when you replace the caps, did you just swap out the caps for better caps in the same values? Which caps are the most important? If I posted a picture of the Jolida, would you be able to point out the areas that would improve the sound the most? Since I am modding two phono stages, only to keep one. I only really want to make the most important changes since I will most likely lose money when selling one of the units.
Thanks again,
Dan
No problem. I understand. I will look into trying some of your ideas. I know I can replace caps and the diodes. How would I find out which Hexfreds to get (I know there are a lot of different versions). Also, how would I found out the voltages of the four regulators? I am having someone mod my Music Hall CD25 and I have to order some voltage regulators for him. I could easily order some more for the Rogue. How would I find out the voltage ratings of each of these regulators? The Burson's are just a drop in replacement. I can handle swapping out stuff, I just can determine when to bypass, change values, etc.
As for the Jolida. I have heard it can be great with replacement of the opamps (which I have 6 OPA627's for already). I have also got a matched set of GT12ax7-M tubes that sound great already. When you modded the Jolida, what do you do to it? How would I go about finding the correct values for the resistors and such. Also, when you replace the caps, did you just swap out the caps for better caps in the same values? Which caps are the most important? If I posted a picture of the Jolida, would you be able to point out the areas that would improve the sound the most? Since I am modding two phono stages, only to keep one. I only really want to make the most important changes since I will most likely lose money when selling one of the units.
Thanks again,
Dan
Yes unfortunatly you will lose money when modifying the preamp. One option is to do the mods carefully and remove the expensive upgrade parts when you sell it. Might as well use them in something else.
I upgraded all the film caps, which included coupling caps and RIAA caps. For the resistors, I used the stripes on them to identify the values, which is very time consuming. If you can get a schematic that will be much easier. I wish I had saved the values, then I could just tell you. I hand matched the RIAA resistors and caps, and I used polystyrenes in that cuircit. I used Relcaps for the coupling. For further sound improvement you could try teflon.
In the power supply I upgraded the caps to Panasonic Purism, Elna Cerafine, or Black Gates. I also bypassed those caps with I believe .01uf film and foil wima caps. I know I changed the tube sockets with some better ones, the RCA's, wire, etc. I didn't touch the tubes as the person who I was doing this for had his own stash. However I did test it with a set of Ei tubes, and later heard it with some RFT tubes.
I upgraded all the film caps, which included coupling caps and RIAA caps. For the resistors, I used the stripes on them to identify the values, which is very time consuming. If you can get a schematic that will be much easier. I wish I had saved the values, then I could just tell you. I hand matched the RIAA resistors and caps, and I used polystyrenes in that cuircit. I used Relcaps for the coupling. For further sound improvement you could try teflon.
In the power supply I upgraded the caps to Panasonic Purism, Elna Cerafine, or Black Gates. I also bypassed those caps with I believe .01uf film and foil wima caps. I know I changed the tube sockets with some better ones, the RCA's, wire, etc. I didn't touch the tubes as the person who I was doing this for had his own stash. However I did test it with a set of Ei tubes, and later heard it with some RFT tubes.
Look like there is a wealth of experience in moding the Jolida
JD9A phono amp. I also owns one and would like to do just
the simple mod - i,.e. replacing the coupling capacitor
to AuriCap or Kimber. May be also moding the
power supply & bypass cap to Blackgate. Can anyone kindly
advise the values and quantity of capaciotors of coupling, bypass & power supply so that I may start my shopping list ? Thanks in
advance.
JD9A phono amp. I also owns one and would like to do just
the simple mod - i,.e. replacing the coupling capacitor
to AuriCap or Kimber. May be also moding the
power supply & bypass cap to Blackgate. Can anyone kindly
advise the values and quantity of capaciotors of coupling, bypass & power supply so that I may start my shopping list ? Thanks in
advance.
Any photos of the gutty-whuts of the Jolida? I would appreciate that. thanks!
Whoops!
Found a photo and thread on the net. Let me know if this is current:
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1197215/36
Whoops!
Found a photo and thread on the net. Let me know if this is current:
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1197215/36
Hi
I recently bought Jolida JD9 from a US seller from Audiogon,
along with that he sent me an upgrade kit. When I examined the upgrade kit, it consist the following:
1. 7 OPa chips OPA86
2. 10 Mundorf Capacitors (black color)
3. 2 Auri caps (lrage size) yellow colr
4. 6-7 high quality resistors
5. Two Russian Valves
Unfortunately, the seller has not provide me of any details of the upgrade.
With the available components, can any one tell me the upgrade path.
It appears that he has anticipated changing of OPAs and two caps near the Valves including the valves.
the balance components 10 no mundorf caps and resistors may be to upgrade the power supply area.
I do hope someone will give me some enlightenment on the anticipated upgrade path. I will indicate the exact specifications of the components shortly.
Best regards
Mohan
I recently bought Jolida JD9 from a US seller from Audiogon,
along with that he sent me an upgrade kit. When I examined the upgrade kit, it consist the following:
1. 7 OPa chips OPA86
2. 10 Mundorf Capacitors (black color)
3. 2 Auri caps (lrage size) yellow colr
4. 6-7 high quality resistors
5. Two Russian Valves
Unfortunately, the seller has not provide me of any details of the upgrade.
With the available components, can any one tell me the upgrade path.
It appears that he has anticipated changing of OPAs and two caps near the Valves including the valves.
the balance components 10 no mundorf caps and resistors may be to upgrade the power supply area.
I do hope someone will give me some enlightenment on the anticipated upgrade path. I will indicate the exact specifications of the components shortly.
Best regards
Mohan
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