carlmart said:
During the past summer, I visited the Dynaudio driver factory ....yes, they always looks similar, but usually are compeltelly different, changing motor/former, polyprop, even an pole/membrane angle...etc.
Wrong, they stopped selling drivers, not speakers. Actually, since yr 2000 they moved completelly to speaker production. However, there are some exeptions - Dynaudio is still supplying PMC and Totem for some small amounts of drivers (e.g 24W100 for PMC and one of the version of 17W75 for Totem)
The crossover of the 1.3s is farily simple, and it is bottoming out; on the other hand, the Focus 140 and S1.4 have more complex crossover, but there no single word of bottoming out - I'm pointing again - irrespective of the volume pressure (which may be, surprisingly high!)
You can still purchase drivers from Dynaudio as speaker manufacturer - even with custom parameters AFAIK. But you would have to buy them in hundreds.
Someone mentioned sonus Faber. The do indeed use something that looks like a Dynaudio driver on their "Stradivari Hommage" speaker but it is actually made by Audio Technology.
Regards
Charles
Someone mentioned sonus Faber. The do indeed use something that looks like a Dynaudio driver on their "Stradivari Hommage" speaker but it is actually made by Audio Technology.
Regards
Charles
The best speaker they use, IMHO, is the Skaaning:
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=4942271.27647&pid=104
Look at that design and build quality!
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=4942271.27647&pid=104
Look at that design and build quality!
carlmart said:
Carlos
As I said in my earlier thread, on my set up after hearing about the bottoming out issue, I capped mine off at 70hz and tried it and also again at 120hz. Both times it sounded etched and grainy. Once I uncapped it again the resolution higher and the sound was a lot smoother. Maybe in my case using two 17W75LQ and the Esotar in its own enclosure and being a fully sealed enclosure of 1 cubic foot I am not encountering that problem, also with the two 30W100's in place which has its own enclosure of 7 cubic feet. I could understand if I was using one 17W75LQ and trying to get the low-end out of it. But again, in my case I do not have that issue. Now my friend which is going to try his setup maybe he may encounter that issue since he is going to use two 17W75LQ with an Esotar, but no woofers at all. Maybe then he may have to cap his because he doesn't have the 30W100's helping to produce which in order to get the bass he would have to turn it up, now my theory
Art
If you tried it and didn't like it, then it's fine.
As I said, bottoming happens in vented boxes, not in sealed ones. On your case it's different: it's that the speaker will be trying to work in a region where it can't, so it may produce non-linearities and distortion. I believe that in your case bi-amping, with one amp, duly high-passed, feeding the 17W75 and the tweet might be better than using a cap on the x-over to high-pass.
Then it's fine.
If his box is not vented, he will need all low energy it can get. No cap.
Carlos
carlmart said:
Carlos
On my friend's project, this is what he is planning to do: His enclosure is also a sealed unit, but he has a little over 2 cubic feet opposed to my 1 cubic feet. Now what's your opinion on how to set that up? Should he try it uncapped on two 17W75LQ or should he cap it at the lower frequencies like maybe 80hz or so? Tell me what you think?
Art
Charles
I’m assuming that you are complimenting on my pair of speakers. These cabinets were custom built by a cabinet maker in the Sacramento area which they did an excellent job on. In fact, I think they’re better built than most of the cabinets I have seen at the CES shows. I have been to the CES show almost every year since 1984 and I worked closely with this cabinet maker for a couple of months before contracting with him to build these. I wanted to build a cabinet with almost no resonance and to make sure in had good solid internal bracing so it would be absolute solid. When I first went to CES in Chicago in 1985, I fell in love with the Duntech Sovereigns, that was when Duntech was using the Dynaudio drivers and John Dunlavy was designing for them. I always wanted a pair similar to those but the price was out of my range. Then when Dunlavy started his company I wanted his SC-5’s but didn’t want to spend the money paying for some else’s product, so that what prompt me to have mines built at a more affordable price and the way I want it. But the Duntech’s are sure nice!
Art
eradoncic said:
The bottoming out issue was also a problem I have with my 1.3MK’s creating a loud pop on fast bass transients with dynamic jazz and classical music, and when I looked further into it I found references also to the
1.8MKII’s http://www.audioreview.com/cat/spea...s/dynaudiousa/PRD_119447_1594crx.aspx#review0 see #14
1,3SE’s http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1122652021&openflup&1&4#1
3.4’s http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=speakers&n=123725&highlight=dynaud
and another for the 1.3MKII’s
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=speakers&n=174606&highlight=contou
plus a few more.
Although the speakers were less than 5 years old, without the warranty card and purchase receipt, Dynaudio only offered to exchange the drivers if I paid for the replacements.
Although I feel the 1.3MKII’s sound better run full range I keep them crossed over with my Velodyne as to keep them out of trouble.
So the question is, is it that particular driver or production run.
Now, we may not hear about the newer Focus and Contours lines bottoming out as most are now used in a HT setup and are automatically setup with a sub in mind.
Yea, I tried crossing mines at 70hz with that I felt the sound had a little harsh and bright so I just ran them wide open. But then again my unit is in a separate sealed enclosure within an enclosure with the two 30W100’s helping it. Did yours sound harsh or bright when you crossed it compared to wide open?
Crossing them over gave them more headroom but I believe the crossover does add some distortion which may be percieved as harshness or brightness. In fact I believe when ever we add one more signal path we modify the original electrical signal.
The nice thing when they can be run full range is that my Bryston amp usually has a nicer control of the bass region, unfortunately the Bryston can also add a great deal of punch which causes my Dyn’s to bottom out on deep fast transients.
Prior to using the Contour 1.3MKII's I had the Celestion SL6S's for 15 years modified with the SL700 drivers and never had a distortion problem playing them at the same volume. But, I do find the Contour's are a better speaker in terms of neutrality and presentation.
The nice thing when they can be run full range is that my Bryston amp usually has a nicer control of the bass region, unfortunately the Bryston can also add a great deal of punch which causes my Dyn’s to bottom out on deep fast transients.
Prior to using the Contour 1.3MKII's I had the Celestion SL6S's for 15 years modified with the SL700 drivers and never had a distortion problem playing them at the same volume. But, I do find the Contour's are a better speaker in terms of neutrality and presentation.
rob80b said:
Well, I did not expect so many models have the same problem.
But, I finally received and changed the drivers for my 1.3Mk2's, an resolved the bottoming out problem - the bass driver now works good, although it is yet to be fully brake-in, and I still don't know how much I can stress it
.Interestingly, the original driver is not signed (exept some 5-digit number), so I don't know which model exactely is
. The only thing I can recognize is the Kapton former, so it is probably one of the upper scale products (probably Esotec).On the other hand, the substitute is clearly an 17W75LQ-04, 4-Ohm verson and also with Kapton former; otherwise everything seems identical.
eradoncic said:
I also contacted Dynaudio concerning the driver and emailed them all the examples I could find with reference to the drivers bottoming out from the 52se's to the 3.4's.
As I mentioned above they told me to replace the drivers but would not admit there might be some problems with that particular model.
In the end I just kept the 1.3MK II's crossed over with my Velodyne because without to original invoice I would be out of my pocket half the price of the 1.3MK II on the used market today.
Also Eradoncic did you replace both drivers as that is what Dynaudio suggested I should do as the drivers take a long time to break in?
Yes, I received and replaced both mid/bass drivers. The break in period is short, about 100h or so, in any case shorter than the new boxes. I must say, the only difference with the previous model I can hear is a bit more laidback sound with new drivers.
But, it could be also my self-suggestion, who knows
Of coarse, I had to send the original drivers back to the service/factory since hey insist on that.
But, it could be also my self-suggestion, who knows
Of coarse, I had to send the original drivers back to the service/factory since hey insist on that.
Good to hear they are working out, I just assumed that if I had replaced mine and run them full range again I would encounter the same problem and my money for the replacements would have been wasted.
At what volume did you find the original drivers bottoming out, I'm running off a Bryston 3BST and a BP25, source is a Teac VRDS -20 with Audioquest interconnects and speaker cable.
I usually ran into problems with well-recorded jazz and classical music with good dynamic range, pop music seemed less problematic because most of it usually compressed and lacks the dynamics. Volume was getting close to live but I was always under the assumption from the reviews that the Dyns could handle it, my assumptions could be wrong.
Maybe I'll reconsider the replacements.
It's been almost a year since I contacted them and they did offer me new drivers at a reasonable price.
At what volume did you find the original drivers bottoming out, I'm running off a Bryston 3BST and a BP25, source is a Teac VRDS -20 with Audioquest interconnects and speaker cable.
I usually ran into problems with well-recorded jazz and classical music with good dynamic range, pop music seemed less problematic because most of it usually compressed and lacks the dynamics. Volume was getting close to live but I was always under the assumption from the reviews that the Dyns could handle it, my assumptions could be wrong.
Maybe I'll reconsider the replacements.
It's been almost a year since I contacted them and they did offer me new drivers at a reasonable price.
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