Personally, I don't care what frequency the crossover is at as long as it's done well, but the benefits of a single source point can't be achieved in multiway without going coaxial.
I have my apartment system set flat to around 25Hz, but don't play very loud.
The Tymphany/Peerless TG9FD-10-04 is a 4 ohm 3.5 inch glass fiber cone wide band driver that may satisfy those requirements up to their power limitation. Although rated at 5 watts, they can take peaks in the 30 watt range with no audible distress.
Hornresp simulation indicates they are under Xmax (2.6mm) above 200Hz at around 10volt input with 100dB output (half space, 1meter). Crossed at 500 Hz, they would smoke before sounding distorted.
At the usual listening levels of under 90 dBA at 2meters, the TG9FD-10-04 sound very clean, no upper breakup and the frequency response is as flat as the factory specs indicate. Also of note is how wide the dispersion is, 120 degree (-6dB) at 5kHz.
After using a Tannoy PBM 6.5 (2way 6.5"/1" tweet) I used the TG9FD-10-04 full range (with a sub) in my home theater mains for some time, finding the TG9FD-10-04 midrange sounded superior.
I recently swapped to a 2-way HF horn/8" for the tighter 90x40 HF pattern. It took quite a bit of A/B testing before the switch.
Art
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See the driver in the upper left corner of my avatar? Its specs make so little sense that any rational speaker designer wont even try them. I find them superb sounding and I expect them to last me for the rest of my days - or until I can no longer hear / go somewhere that they cannot follow.
I cant explain why, it's just how they are. The kicker is, others can confirm; so it's not just me and what I like.
A "is it real or is it Memorex" listening style (the guy sitting solo in the sweet-spot) may be part of the FR hype. I for one dont listen any other way, I'm not disappointed if my living room setup sounds far and away from a live band in the room, when I'm cooking in the kitchen...
I cant explain why, it's just how they are. The kicker is, others can confirm; so it's not just me and what I like.
A "is it real or is it Memorex" listening style (the guy sitting solo in the sweet-spot) may be part of the FR hype. I for one dont listen any other way, I'm not disappointed if my living room setup sounds far and away from a live band in the room, when I'm cooking in the kitchen...
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You are not alone. I read about full range drivers for the first time on this forum, which was over a decade ago. I built some speakers based around the much touted Fostex 4” driver of the day. They were, for the most part, complete crap. After the novelty wore off I couldn't stand to listen to their ragged treble for more than 15s to 30s. There wasn’t much bass. I got rid. I built again, this time an MLTL box with another 4” driver touted for it’s bass, the EL70 I think, which is unique amongst it’s peers. This produced real bass, at least as much as you can ask of a 4” driver and I learned two things 1) if you want bass from a 4” driver use an MLTL, b) if you want bass from a 4” driver use the EL70. The treble was not well extended and the driver went out of production. I tried again with a larger driver also known to be able to produce bass but also treble - the Alpair 10.3 and I put this in the ‘Pencil’ enclosure which gives good quality bass but not as powerful as the MLTL but the imaging performance was absolutely phenomenal. I have since put a pair of these drivers into large BR boxes and been equally pleased.
Having said all that, I also built a speaker with the Audio Nirvana Super 15” Ferrite full range driver. THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SEEKING with deep bass and clear highs, it was a revelation. If you have the room this will completely heal your impression of full range drivers.
tvrgeek - do you have a tvr? If so please post a photo!
Historically, apparently point source phase response that only 1st order XOs, physically aligned TD can somewhat mimic in a multi-way.
Is it this one?
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/r...loudspeaker-with-tube-amplifier-f-15-in-pair/
Nice looking driver. The magnet cover makes it look like Alnico or Neo but I don't see it listed. Not a bad price, either - for what lookslike a well made driver.
Yes, that's it. I'd say it's pretty well made. I dont know how Lii got it to do what it does; clearly it's not something just thrown together (stamped basket, spade terminals) for quantity sales.
I don't remember seeing these drivers. They do look well made and their enclosure plans look well thought out and no nonsense.
Reading the reviews does lead to some eye rolling about the OB and SET, but people are enjoying them- that's nice.
Maybe some day I'll get a chance to hear them.
Reading the reviews does lead to some eye rolling about the OB and SET, but people are enjoying them- that's nice.
Maybe some day I'll get a chance to hear them.
Hmm, (500*5000)^0.5 = ~1581 Hz mean = ~13543/pi/1581 = ~2.73" eff. dia. piston. To be pistonic requires a VC dia. = ~13543/pi/5000 = < ~0.86" and at least a 1" Xmax, so for efficiency, best overall to use a 500 Hz compression horn, though having experienced a full 20-20 kHz single driver with similar specs [Babb Lorelei] that requires no woofer for all traditional music short of a low B pipe organ symphony; so the technology is there, just the cost was and probably still is, too high plus its design doesn't allow for repairs nor tweaking ability, so probably will remain just an experiment.
Someone mentions diffraction (probably at mouth).
Perhaps dampening needed outside of horn walls.
But, immediate, dynamic, basically time aligned 150hz+ (I think the 15's come in at 150hz).
Does this qualify as full range driver ?
Depending on music, distance, volume, this is an option if a 4" driver doesn't cut the mustard sitting 10' away.
Lol
I like these discussions, so i will add some mud to the water.
But i agree, run wide open, a 12" fane 250tc with a LOT of boost (and 1-4k cut), sealed on the floor, was ok 10' away, but would not go loud enough for my wants, needs, desires.
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Single 15" "full ranger" on a Betsy OB. Amateur recording and spectral analysis: DR = 12
Original file DR = 7 !
Casual Analysis of the spectral analysis 🙂
PS The FR isn't mine so I'm not going to identify it.
Original file DR = 7 !
Casual Analysis of the spectral analysis 🙂
- The FR Dynamic Range is hugely better then the original file making it sound more lively and engaging - like a live concert, for some. It seems to have achieved some decompressing of the dynamically neutered original. Is this a gift of high QTS and under-damping amps?
- The FR doesn't do much under 50Hz and that cuts out a heap of rumble and noise. Its a great HP filter for junk.
- The only bass lost is the 41Hz open bottom bass string but so what - its not often played anyway. Besides the 82Hz 2nd harmonic is as usually louder and the brain does the rest in reconstructing the fundamental.
- Although the FR is only on a modest OB it somehow gets a good SPL on the 60Hz peak
PS The FR isn't mine so I'm not going to identify it.
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Lii Audio F-18 sounds pretty good here with flattering simple mid-centric music. More complex music could be another story. Id still rather listen to ESL for midrange timbre. Ive posted the recording below so its possible to put on headphones and swap rapidly from one to the other using the short term audio sensory memory to compare line by line. The original is much louder and needs level matching with the youtube volume slider:
and via Spendor SP 1/2
and lastly B&W
and via Spendor SP 1/2
and lastly B&W
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too much glass behind the toan speaker. too much reverberation. How are you supposed to compare different speakers?
I can't really tell much difference on my set up at work, but the B n W seem to have a boxy resonance, port noise ? I can't think that a commercial speaker would be that bad, and it must be at my end, but why only the B n W clip ?