Hi bereno,
have you seen this?
http://www.stereophile.com/reference/52/index11.html
look also Sidebar1 and 2, very explicative.
I'm italian but I am sure if you google " elements of rational mechanics"
you can find a lot of "tremendous" books 🙂
Hope this help,
Cheers,
Paolo
have you seen this?
http://www.stereophile.com/reference/52/index11.html
look also Sidebar1 and 2, very explicative.
I'm italian but I am sure if you google " elements of rational mechanics"
you can find a lot of "tremendous" books 🙂
Hope this help,
Cheers,
Paolo
Hi inertial (do I say with full of respect )😎
DAMPENING is the key word; our hifi components aren't of huge mass, none hugely rigid, thus vibrating.
Spikes/cones, even if not as performing as wanted, will allways perform better than the air surrounding your lovely elastical/soft suspended system simply because the impedance of the hifi components is closer to this of steel, concrete or even wood, thus allowing the propagation of part of the energy to leave the component and thus, obligatory, having a dampening effect.
Yes, the risk of increasing the FR of the component does exist but in this case the support (spike or floor) should have this same FR, quite improbable regarding the sizes in account.
Block your ultra-low FR unrigid system, how you want but without touching the component, thus increasing this FR: are the vibrations increasing? Really? haha
DAMPENING is the key word; our hifi components aren't of huge mass, none hugely rigid, thus vibrating.
Spikes/cones, even if not as performing as wanted, will allways perform better than the air surrounding your lovely elastical/soft suspended system simply because the impedance of the hifi components is closer to this of steel, concrete or even wood, thus allowing the propagation of part of the energy to leave the component and thus, obligatory, having a dampening effect.
Yes, the risk of increasing the FR of the component does exist but in this case the support (spike or floor) should have this same FR, quite improbable regarding the sizes in account.
Block your ultra-low FR unrigid system, how you want but without touching the component, thus increasing this FR: are the vibrations increasing? Really? haha
inertial said:
Thanks, I read the article the first time, but I failed to notice the references, thanks I will take a look.
It looks to me like both options present definite changes in the acoustics of the setup. However, it also looks to me like the decision about which one is "better" will have to remain with the listener based on their personal preferences...
salas said:
I will say that the Sylomer looks to be a good alternative to both options because the company also provides dampening springs and dampening material.
Spikes
Hi,
I built the BK16 kit form Madisound. Then I bought 6 spikes ($1.90 each) from them - 3 for every horn, because 3 points always make a plane! I was thinking of putting the spikes with the tips down, but I decided that it's better if I put them up😀 I read that in bgaudio.org. I got two pluses doing this - 1. I don't need another person to move the horns around;
2. I didn't have to drill holes in the stands;
My impression is that bass is lower and the response is better. I gained detail in every frequency, the only downside is that the mids lost their sharpness. Anyway they were too sharp anyway, and I believe that’s not a loss for me!
As the metal is very slippery the horns are almost "in the air". I believe if I hung them from the ceiling it will be the best. However it will be way too expensive for these horns...
Welcome to visit me in NY for a listening session 🙂 Please use neutravlad@yahoo.com
Thanks@
Here are some pics:
Hi,
I built the BK16 kit form Madisound. Then I bought 6 spikes ($1.90 each) from them - 3 for every horn, because 3 points always make a plane! I was thinking of putting the spikes with the tips down, but I decided that it's better if I put them up😀 I read that in bgaudio.org. I got two pluses doing this - 1. I don't need another person to move the horns around;
2. I didn't have to drill holes in the stands;
My impression is that bass is lower and the response is better. I gained detail in every frequency, the only downside is that the mids lost their sharpness. Anyway they were too sharp anyway, and I believe that’s not a loss for me!
As the metal is very slippery the horns are almost "in the air". I believe if I hung them from the ceiling it will be the best. However it will be way too expensive for these horns...
Welcome to visit me in NY for a listening session 🙂 Please use neutravlad@yahoo.com
Thanks@
Here are some pics:
Attachments
Hi crazyhub,
ha ha me too. 😀
When I start as a "consuelor" for Sigma we have experimented all the traditionals methods . They are easy, fast,inexpensive, people do not make answer,etc. They have also better WAF. People loves spikes!
Unfortunately bad vibes was evident. Then we have redesigned the
"stand" and go subsonic. Immediately the carbon box was an order of magnitude less vibrating. The sound a lot better.
So, I invite all the people , just to be curious, to experimentate
the inertial approch.
good listen
Paolo
ha ha me too. 😀
When I start as a "consuelor" for Sigma we have experimented all the traditionals methods . They are easy, fast,inexpensive, people do not make answer,etc. They have also better WAF. People loves spikes!
Unfortunately bad vibes was evident. Then we have redesigned the
"stand" and go subsonic. Immediately the carbon box was an order of magnitude less vibrating. The sound a lot better.
So, I invite all the people , just to be curious, to experimentate
the inertial approch.
good listen
Paolo
Hi inertial,
I am interested in audio since 35 years with success and, yes, full of errors. I learned a lot and mostly that almost all things are relative and have pros and cons.
However, each time I owned a balanced stereo I prefered rigid connection vs soft ones; each time I needed a softer sound I used sorbotane, felt, caoutchoug, ceiling suspended speakers...but wasn't satisfayed because of loss of details and dynamics.
Quite the contrary of your experience, funny, no?
I am interested in audio since 35 years with success and, yes, full of errors. I learned a lot and mostly that almost all things are relative and have pros and cons.
However, each time I owned a balanced stereo I prefered rigid connection vs soft ones; each time I needed a softer sound I used sorbotane, felt, caoutchoug, ceiling suspended speakers...but wasn't satisfayed because of loss of details and dynamics.
Quite the contrary of your experience, funny, no?
So it's life .
Everyone is king in his choices. If you like more spiked, go spiked!
Cheers,
Paolo
Everyone is king in his choices. If you like more spiked, go spiked!
Cheers,
Paolo
ressurection
Controversial, yet interesting topic.
There are thousands of moons left untill I'll DIY my own speakers. So I have to find the best way to make stand my current very heavy (36kg) Spendor S100 boxes. These have original tubular stands, which I'm considering to fill with sand in the future. (If anybody thinks it's a bad idea, I would love to hear the reasons.) The stands are compromised to have spikes on cones. Rented appartment can't have holes in the soft wood floor. Between boxes and stands I've placed four "raisin" squares on the four respective corners. I don't know any properties of the called "raisin" material. It looked and felt very anti-vibrational, when I've "borrowed" samples from architect friends. 😀 They said it was T&F atheltics stadium tracks material made to dampen vibrations. I believed.
Now that I've read this thread, I think there might be better solutions. In theory, if I decouple speakers from stands in those 4 corners, I'm not letting vibrations to escape the boxes? Cones are not helping either? I would be interested to tryout SYLOMER, but what would be the best application in my case?
Controversial, yet interesting topic.
There are thousands of moons left untill I'll DIY my own speakers. So I have to find the best way to make stand my current very heavy (36kg) Spendor S100 boxes. These have original tubular stands, which I'm considering to fill with sand in the future. (If anybody thinks it's a bad idea, I would love to hear the reasons.) The stands are compromised to have spikes on cones. Rented appartment can't have holes in the soft wood floor. Between boxes and stands I've placed four "raisin" squares on the four respective corners. I don't know any properties of the called "raisin" material. It looked and felt very anti-vibrational, when I've "borrowed" samples from architect friends. 😀 They said it was T&F atheltics stadium tracks material made to dampen vibrations. I believed.
Now that I've read this thread, I think there might be better solutions. In theory, if I decouple speakers from stands in those 4 corners, I'm not letting vibrations to escape the boxes? Cones are not helping either? I would be interested to tryout SYLOMER, but what would be the best application in my case?
Attachments
They serve a purpose on my stands alright. Not the money maker one. They look quite default and ordinary. Still curious if with heavy boxes and stands I could have different, more stable solution, than spikes and cones.
I've mentioned this before, but I think it comes down to two problems:
Some people have their speakers positioned so they are free to move in reaction to the motion of the drivers (mostly the woofer cone, obviously).
Some people have floors (or shelves) that resonate in response to vibrations from the speaker cabinet.
So, if your cabinets are moving back and forth, and you put them on spikes, voila!, you perceive a more focused bass and clearer treble. On the other hand, if the spikes impart a resonance to the floor, things will get get worse. Not only is the floor booming, but the speakers are now riding on delayed reflections (the actual resonance of the floor, if it's big enough, may be subsonic).
Ergo, some find improvement with spikes and some don't. Most of these discussions remind of those blind men trying to describe an elephant. 😉
Some people have their speakers positioned so they are free to move in reaction to the motion of the drivers (mostly the woofer cone, obviously).
Some people have floors (or shelves) that resonate in response to vibrations from the speaker cabinet.
So, if your cabinets are moving back and forth, and you put them on spikes, voila!, you perceive a more focused bass and clearer treble. On the other hand, if the spikes impart a resonance to the floor, things will get get worse. Not only is the floor booming, but the speakers are now riding on delayed reflections (the actual resonance of the floor, if it's big enough, may be subsonic).
Ergo, some find improvement with spikes and some don't. Most of these discussions remind of those blind men trying to describe an elephant. 😉
12 pages, much gnashing of teeth, much typing and arguing... but not one single link to a page doing actual performance measurements in a properly controlled enviroment
for shaaaaame
for shaaaaame
12 pages, much gnashing of teeth, much typing and arguing... but not one single link to a page doing actual performance measurements in a properly controlled enviroment
for shaaaaame
Nope. Those who believe don't want the answer and the rest of us already know the answer. 😀
wholy damn!
Inertia, thanks a lot for the most informative thread about spike vs no spike
Ive removed my spike from my stands and teh bass is definitely better, more in tune with the rest of the spectrum
I'm a bit shocked!!!!!
No spikes anymore for me!
thanks again
Inertia, thanks a lot for the most informative thread about spike vs no spike
Ive removed my spike from my stands and teh bass is definitely better, more in tune with the rest of the spectrum
I'm a bit shocked!!!!!
No spikes anymore for me!
thanks again
I used spikes when we had carpeted floor to penetrate the carpet and give a firm footing. Speakers can rock gently when sitting on carpet especially if it has thick felt underlay beneath it.
I was under the impression that this was what they were originally intended for....
I was under the impression that this was what they were originally intended for....
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