Thanks again for all the info, much appreciated and a lot to look into.
Found this Clarino | Parts Express Project Gallery
Paul Kittinger designed twin ES180TiA in an MLTL which calculates out to approx 44l without taking into account the drivers and bracing (37.5” x 8.5” x 8.5”) so looks like that concurs with my 40l plan, which is reassuring.
Quote “The modeling predicted an anechoic F3 of ~32 Hz, F6 of ~29 Hz, and an F10 of ~26 Hz. An output of 104-105 dB SPL range (at 1 meter and before BSC) was predicted with an input of ~40 watts, which creates an excursion of 15% greater than Xmax at 48 Hz and a peak port air velocity just under 17 m/s at 30 Hz.”. Again this seems to concur with my Boxsim models broadly.
These were with the original version though.
Found this Clarino | Parts Express Project Gallery
Paul Kittinger designed twin ES180TiA in an MLTL which calculates out to approx 44l without taking into account the drivers and bracing (37.5” x 8.5” x 8.5”) so looks like that concurs with my 40l plan, which is reassuring.
Quote “The modeling predicted an anechoic F3 of ~32 Hz, F6 of ~29 Hz, and an F10 of ~26 Hz. An output of 104-105 dB SPL range (at 1 meter and before BSC) was predicted with an input of ~40 watts, which creates an excursion of 15% greater than Xmax at 48 Hz and a peak port air velocity just under 17 m/s at 30 Hz.”. Again this seems to concur with my Boxsim models broadly.
These were with the original version though.
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Also found this, interesting ES180TIA full transmission line two way. Again goes down to 30hz and has good distortion figures even near xmax. Again Paul K had ha hand in the design.
Linehopper: An Esoteric build -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
Linehopper: An Esoteric build -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
Spent last evening doing abit more refining.
Biggest change is in the type of crossover filter. Read the Minidsp manual and found that they only use LR and Butterworth whereas my previous models used a 2x2nd order filters.
Other changes were - move to 2.5l mid closed box, change the spacing of the drivers to the minimum I think I can get away with and double checked the input data (all ok).
So the following are the inputs -
Woofers
LR6 lowpass at 350Hz
Parametric notches at - (Hz/Q/dB) 45/3/-1, 65/3.75/1.5, 240/2/-1
Gain 0dB
Mid
LR6 highpass at 390Hz
LR6 lowpass at 3750Hz
1st order high shelf at 1000Hz, -4db
Delay 0.07ms (2.5cm)
Gain 3.25dB
Tweeter
LR6 lowpass at 3150Hz
Delay 0.13ms (4.5cm)
Parametric notches at - (Hz/Q/dB)4500/1/-3.5, 11000/3/-1
Gain 1.25dB
So, I think I now have a scheme that can be easily implemented in Minidsp and still has the possibility of giving me a pretty flat response down to just over 30dB (-3dB) in a reasonable size box (empty 47l so plenty of space for drivers, mid enclosure and braces).
I also noted that the woofer is displacement limited whereas the mid is power limited but with 100dB at 30W that will be plenty. Looks like I have no need to run the RMB1066 bridged - 4x60W into 8ohms should be plenty.
Attached are the various graphs. Again any comments/ideas/criticism will be gratefully received.
Biggest change is in the type of crossover filter. Read the Minidsp manual and found that they only use LR and Butterworth whereas my previous models used a 2x2nd order filters.
Other changes were - move to 2.5l mid closed box, change the spacing of the drivers to the minimum I think I can get away with and double checked the input data (all ok).
So the following are the inputs -
Woofers
LR6 lowpass at 350Hz
Parametric notches at - (Hz/Q/dB) 45/3/-1, 65/3.75/1.5, 240/2/-1
Gain 0dB
Mid
LR6 highpass at 390Hz
LR6 lowpass at 3750Hz
1st order high shelf at 1000Hz, -4db
Delay 0.07ms (2.5cm)
Gain 3.25dB
Tweeter
LR6 lowpass at 3150Hz
Delay 0.13ms (4.5cm)
Parametric notches at - (Hz/Q/dB)4500/1/-3.5, 11000/3/-1
Gain 1.25dB
So, I think I now have a scheme that can be easily implemented in Minidsp and still has the possibility of giving me a pretty flat response down to just over 30dB (-3dB) in a reasonable size box (empty 47l so plenty of space for drivers, mid enclosure and braces).
I also noted that the woofer is displacement limited whereas the mid is power limited but with 100dB at 30W that will be plenty. Looks like I have no need to run the RMB1066 bridged - 4x60W into 8ohms should be plenty.
Attached are the various graphs. Again any comments/ideas/criticism will be gratefully received.
Attachments
Tks, I am on the same boat, itching to design something by myself vs some premade. Maybe I have to take your route and follow the lead of more experienced designers. Definitely if you want something to use for a long time, with guaranteed success, that is the best route.
I may take as an exercise an different route, get some value leader drivers ( priming cost/ quality vs best performace) and build something with a dsp and active ( i have 5.1 amp with digital inputs) for a driver cost in the vicinity of 125 per (xt25 or xb26 with visaton wg-148r and a 5.5 - 6.5 dayton woofer and a passive radtiator). I am even considering just make one and see what happens. Since it is hard to get it right on the first iteration, why not accept that you will need a second iteration and use it as a research / learning project.
The purify tl thread and the prior one with the passive radiators are amazing and i have been following them closely. I have a feeling he will keep biding more versions as he is very impressed with the purify
I may take as an exercise an different route, get some value leader drivers ( priming cost/ quality vs best performace) and build something with a dsp and active ( i have 5.1 amp with digital inputs) for a driver cost in the vicinity of 125 per (xt25 or xb26 with visaton wg-148r and a 5.5 - 6.5 dayton woofer and a passive radtiator). I am even considering just make one and see what happens. Since it is hard to get it right on the first iteration, why not accept that you will need a second iteration and use it as a research / learning project.
The purify tl thread and the prior one with the passive radiators are amazing and i have been following them closely. I have a feeling he will keep biding more versions as he is very impressed with the purify
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I will be doing similar to you maybe, choosing a proven design but implementing the crossover in an active system.
Here’s my dsp for upto four way stereo crossovers/room EQ for digital inputs.
DSP Crossover project
I also have a Rotel RMB 1066 amp which has a fairly healthy 6x60w Class AB but can bridge pair of amps for 150w but only in nominally 8 ohm speakers. These are relatively cheap on auction sites.
My current favourite is the Ceramicos, relatively cheap drivers from the SB Aluminium/ceramic range with good low distortion (approx £300-325 per side) and sealed so a combination of that and a decent amount of woofer area would suit my listening habits. I have some ideas on the baffle and box to make it my own style as well.
Good luck with your projects and do report back.
Here’s my dsp for upto four way stereo crossovers/room EQ for digital inputs.
DSP Crossover project
I also have a Rotel RMB 1066 amp which has a fairly healthy 6x60w Class AB but can bridge pair of amps for 150w but only in nominally 8 ohm speakers. These are relatively cheap on auction sites.
My current favourite is the Ceramicos, relatively cheap drivers from the SB Aluminium/ceramic range with good low distortion (approx £300-325 per side) and sealed so a combination of that and a decent amount of woofer area would suit my listening habits. I have some ideas on the baffle and box to make it my own style as well.
Good luck with your projects and do report back.
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