sparkle said:
can someone who has this amp help me?
I have the N+55 Version but the intial sound i heard has disappeared and even though its been on 24/7 for several days now, the bass has disappeared. The dynamics and transparency has gone. Nothing else in my systame has been changed.
I have been told that this is due to burn in of the black gate caps.
How does this process affect bass response?
Its almost as if the bass has been attenuated.
It has been powered on for about 2 weeks now. I would have thought burn in would be over by now?
Are you sure, Smith?
Did you read about this black electrolytic capacitor and its less good qualities
- it is not stable like a film or solid lytic caps -
BEFORE you experienced this change in sound?
Another tersting you can do ...
- if you have one new and dull black capacitor of exact same sort
- put in a simple 2-way switch
- flip randomly between old/new cap and listen
One thing is almost sure,
besides those black caps, there is not much in AKSA 55 N
or any other solid state transistors amplifier
that change over time + effects the electrical signal from output.
However, Loudspeakers having moving mechanical parts, surround gaskets from rubber,
may eventually change the mechnical quality of the woofer a bit.
This in turn gives a little, small possibilty to ACTUALLY hear things differently.
🙂 Will be very interesting to read Hugh Dean's explanation to your impressions.
He would have some educated thoughts, I am quite sure.
Regards
lineup
Did you read about this black electrolytic capacitor and its less good qualities
- it is not stable like a film or solid lytic caps -
BEFORE you experienced this change in sound?
Another tersting you can do ...
- if you have one new and dull black capacitor of exact same sort
- put in a simple 2-way switch
- flip randomly between old/new cap and listen
One thing is almost sure,
besides those black caps, there is not much in AKSA 55 N
or any other solid state transistors amplifier
that change over time + effects the electrical signal from output.
However, Loudspeakers having moving mechanical parts, surround gaskets from rubber,
may eventually change the mechnical quality of the woofer a bit.
This in turn gives a little, small possibilty to ACTUALLY hear things differently.
🙂 Will be very interesting to read Hugh Dean's explanation to your impressions.
He would have some educated thoughts, I am quite sure.
Regards
lineup
I dont understand what you mean by this?
Another tersting you can do ...
- if you have one new and dull black capacitor of exact same sort
- put in a simple 2-way switch
- flip randomly between old/new cap and listen
One thing is almost sure,
besides those black caps, there is not much in AKSA 55 N
or any other solid state transistors amplifier
that change over time + effects the electrical signal from output.
However, Loudspeakers having moving mechanical parts, surround gaskets from rubber,
may eventually change the mechnical quality of the woofer a bit.
This in turn gives a little, small possibilty to ACTUALLY hear things differently.
🙂 Will be very interesting to read Hugh Dean's explanation to your impressions.
He would have some educated thoughts, I am quite sure.
Regards
lineup [/B][/QUOTE]
Hugh has been telling me all along that it is a burning in of the black gate caps.
Professor smith said:
Not necessarily if they are BG standard. Getting constantly frustrated i don't think i will ever use those again. Hundreds of hours of break-in? By the time the BGs open up, half my system would need replacement. At least the tubes and cart. Rather put some Silmics or Gold Tunes and get ready to listen. May not be so crystal clear but at least there is bass.
ESR vs age
Besides the unavoidable change in output stage bias and X-over distortion as a class B amp thermally stabilizes ,a drastic change in sound should not happen. (like losing all the bass !)
All electrolytics have changes in ESR depending on temperature ,age ,and type. http://my.execpc.com/~endlr/esr.html
I have heard amps with the power supply caps near failure , this made for a noisy amp (hum), but the sound was not drastically affected. Bootstrap cap .. here the sound is affected (distorted)or the amp just fails.
The DC cap at the feedback side of the differential would be the only one that could have such a drastic effect on bass as to eliminate it !
I have never used the blackgate's , they just mix carbon in the electrolytic "voodoo mix" , but I read that they become "stale" with age. 😀 I will stick to my 105C nichicon's , they "burn in" after
a day (hours) , and stay the same for the next 10 years.
OS
Besides the unavoidable change in output stage bias and X-over distortion as a class B amp thermally stabilizes ,a drastic change in sound should not happen. (like losing all the bass !)
All electrolytics have changes in ESR depending on temperature ,age ,and type. http://my.execpc.com/~endlr/esr.html
I have heard amps with the power supply caps near failure , this made for a noisy amp (hum), but the sound was not drastically affected. Bootstrap cap .. here the sound is affected (distorted)or the amp just fails.
The DC cap at the feedback side of the differential would be the only one that could have such a drastic effect on bass as to eliminate it !I have never used the blackgate's , they just mix carbon in the electrolytic "voodoo mix" , but I read that they become "stale" with age. 😀 I will stick to my 105C nichicon's , they "burn in" after
a day (hours) , and stay the same for the next 10 years.
OS
But i am confused here. I am getting mixed messages.
So is it a burn in issue or not?
Carlos, you have the N+55 can you confirm whether the sound changes in the way I have described over the first 200 hours or so?
So is it a burn in issue or not?
Carlos, you have the N+55 can you confirm whether the sound changes in the way I have described over the first 200 hours or so?
Anything short of a total failure of the cap or a misapplication of it should not have that drastic an effect on sound quality. Post a picture.
http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/blackgate/bgtech.htm
"A total of about 30 hours is the standard level. Once this process of idling is completed, the effect continues as long as the capacitor is kept at the same place and the operating environment does not undergo a substantial change."
Such as temperature? the music itself (bootstrap)? Now I am confused. wish I had one to see if it burns like a piece of coal - reverse polarity. 
Ahhhh ha ha
OS
http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/blackgate/bgtech.htm
"A total of about 30 hours is the standard level. Once this process of idling is completed, the effect continues as long as the capacitor is kept at the same place and the operating environment does not undergo a substantial change."
Such as temperature? the music itself (bootstrap)? Now I am confused. wish I had one to see if it burns like a piece of coal - reverse polarity.
Ahhhh ha ha
OS
heehhehe
Sorry
I have never perceived those changes.
My amplifiers have never presented such kind of things
Check your speaker...maybe coil has melt.
I cannot say other folks delirates... but for sure i don't!
Also i do not use to drink, also i do not use strong medicine drugs too... maybe this explains why i cannot perceive those burns.... maybe i need some drugs to be normal...if "to be normal" is to listen/believe in such kind of capacitive miracle effects.
Once i have perceived something..but testing i could see capacitor was having leakage.
Carlos
Sorry
I have never perceived those changes.
My amplifiers have never presented such kind of things
Check your speaker...maybe coil has melt.
I cannot say other folks delirates... but for sure i don't!
Also i do not use to drink, also i do not use strong medicine drugs too... maybe this explains why i cannot perceive those burns.... maybe i need some drugs to be normal...if "to be normal" is to listen/believe in such kind of capacitive miracle effects.
Once i have perceived something..but testing i could see capacitor was having leakage.
Carlos
Attachments
Well, maybe there really is a good reason why many tube builders like the black gates 🙄
The "better"(?) black gate "models" are fore either very low voltage, or very high voltage
I must admit that every time that I hear that a certain cap does something exstraordinary to the sound, I only just get suspicious
The "better"(?) black gate "models" are fore either very low voltage, or very high voltage
I must admit that every time that I hear that a certain cap does something exstraordinary to the sound, I only just get suspicious
We can make our own mind dear Tinitus
If someone install a new capacitor...he has the spectation to perceive something different..so... he will perceive differences.
The trick is to say the guy that changed the capacitor to a better one, and in the reality nothing was changed!
The guy will perceive differences.
If you ask someone to perceive differences..he will.
Psychologic things...are real inside one mind...for other minds may not be real.
regards,
Carlos
........................................................................................................
Well...big losses of bass may be a malfunction, a defective circuit..something damaged there.... back to the sender!...if it is defective, then return to Hugh..he will listen and check that stuff
Of course if bougth assembled..if was a kit...well.... Hugh will not be responsable anymore.... equipment is good and aproved by hundreds.... around thousand already use and feel good with this amplifier..so.... exception may be an electronic trouble.... problems with pre amplifier, speaker or problems having inside the listener mind/soul/heart or something i cannot imagine.
If someone install a new capacitor...he has the spectation to perceive something different..so... he will perceive differences.
The trick is to say the guy that changed the capacitor to a better one, and in the reality nothing was changed!
The guy will perceive differences.
If you ask someone to perceive differences..he will.
Psychologic things...are real inside one mind...for other minds may not be real.
regards,
Carlos
........................................................................................................
Well...big losses of bass may be a malfunction, a defective circuit..something damaged there.... back to the sender!...if it is defective, then return to Hugh..he will listen and check that stuff
Of course if bougth assembled..if was a kit...well.... Hugh will not be responsable anymore.... equipment is good and aproved by hundreds.... around thousand already use and feel good with this amplifier..so.... exception may be an electronic trouble.... problems with pre amplifier, speaker or problems having inside the listener mind/soul/heart or something i cannot imagine.
On the serious side ,what I'm saying is that the subtle changes in the blackgates ESR before and after burn-in should only result in equally subtle changes to the sound of the amp.
I recently acquired some cerafines , another audiophile cap ,using ceramic tainted electrolytic. http://www.welbornelabs.com/elna.htm
As a replacement to the bootstrap a SUBTLE improvement can be heard with the cerafines, but nothing drastic. Going through a range of values and quality for the input cap has a much greater return. Improvements to the main power supply or the amps general topology will have a MAJOR effect on the soundstage.
We all want better... more , but a drastic change means something drastic has happened.
OS
I recently acquired some cerafines , another audiophile cap ,using ceramic tainted electrolytic. http://www.welbornelabs.com/elna.htm
As a replacement to the bootstrap a SUBTLE improvement can be heard with the cerafines, but nothing drastic. Going through a range of values and quality for the input cap has a much greater return. Improvements to the main power supply or the amps general topology will have a MAJOR effect on the soundstage.
We all want better... more , but a drastic change means something drastic has happened.
OS
Carlos, I think you are oversimplifying it a bit
But yeah, sometimes we are fooled, or fool our selves
But just because it happens occationally, that doesnt mean its a golden rule of fact thats unavoidable to happen at every incident
But sure, its funny to read when someone think very highly of something that others hate the sound of
btw, I have a dear friend who loves his stereo
And it really is pretty nice
Only, I cant stand the sound of it
And I cant say that to him, or he would start listening to how bad it sound
So, I just let him believe that its good
But yeah, sometimes we are fooled, or fool our selves
But just because it happens occationally, that doesnt mean its a golden rule of fact thats unavoidable to happen at every incident
But sure, its funny to read when someone think very highly of something that others hate the sound of
btw, I have a dear friend who loves his stereo
And it really is pretty nice
Only, I cant stand the sound of it
And I cant say that to him, or he would start listening to how bad it sound
So, I just let him believe that its good
so I have been waiting patiently leaving the amplfiier on all day and night all the while this was not going to make any difference whatsoever?
Tinnitus do you really have tinitus by the way?
Tinnitus do you really have tinitus by the way?
Professor smith said:
Not much really
A slight noise when theres silence
Im exstremely sensitive to all sorts of noise
Sometimes when I start my computer my ears go crazy
When my friends think my speakers sound fantastic, they just pains my ears
Takes a lot of work to make sensible ears relaxe completely
"Bats ears", yeah I guess its my tool, somehow
But occationally I very shortly get very bad ringing in my ears, and it scares the hell out of me
When I chose that name I may have thought of it as friendly reminder, sort of
But now I just think its a stupid name that I would like to change
Kenji,
Have you tried returning to your original CD player, without your new DAC, and listening again? You seemed to like that sound well enough, perhaps it's the source which is the problem.
Hugh
Have you tried returning to your original CD player, without your new DAC, and listening again? You seemed to like that sound well enough, perhaps it's the source which is the problem.
Hugh
Yes Hugh I did, but even with that cd player, the sound is no longer the same as before.
The bass is less and the dynamics are not as great either. Compared to what I initially heard, theres definitely a difference.
The bass is less and the dynamics are not as great either. Compared to what I initially heard, theres definitely a difference.
Kenji,
The clear implication here is that if you heard wonderful sound before, and ordinary sound now, then the system, and I stress the word system, DOES have the potential, and somewhere, somehow, you have inadvertently degraded it. It is even possible your perception has somehow changed, altered perhaps by mood, music choice, whatever. I cannot know what has happened without a lot of swapping and measuring, but clearly the potential is there, so keep going.....
Hugh
The clear implication here is that if you heard wonderful sound before, and ordinary sound now, then the system, and I stress the word system, DOES have the potential, and somewhere, somehow, you have inadvertently degraded it. It is even possible your perception has somehow changed, altered perhaps by mood, music choice, whatever. I cannot know what has happened without a lot of swapping and measuring, but clearly the potential is there, so keep going.....
Hugh
AKSA said:
Do you think bias has anything to do with this?
It is a little high about 76mv as opposed to 55mv but then again its always been that way from the start.
The other thing I have done is changed the speaker positioning around alot but despite trying out different positions, I cannot obtain that sound I had before.
So at this stage is burning in no longer a factor in this given that the settling in period has surely exceeded 100 hours by now?
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