Cables are fun. Cables are pretty. Don't ever forget that, it's very important.
If they are expensive and look good, and have lots of fancy explanations about how they work then they must make your system better, right?
Yes, cables make a difference. No question about that at all. But there is a disproportionate amount of attention payed to them because they are Veblen priced.
IMO, the biggest changes you can make in an audio system are to the transducers and the electronics that they are attached to.
If they are expensive and look good, and have lots of fancy explanations about how they work then they must make your system better, right?
Yes, cables make a difference. No question about that at all. But there is a disproportionate amount of attention payed to them because they are Veblen priced.
IMO, the biggest changes you can make in an audio system are to the transducers and the electronics that they are attached to.
ZM - Perhaps they were reverent?
I don't think it's a "truth" problem, but rather that if Papa comes out and says anything, it can be construed as an endorsement, and that has the possibility of ruffling feathers. Also, cables are a very high-margin item and usually a large part of a high-end boutique's profit. So it's easier to stay mum on the subject.
It is about truth and honesty. Either the audiophile cable industry is a scam or it isn't. If feathers are being ruffled, maybe it is a deliberate scam? There's no clear evidence either way so the situation can continue can't it?
It's also true that Professor Papa has not said much so far.
I vote the room to have the greatest impact on sound reproduction, then speakers, power amps, sources and then preamps. Cables doesn't matter much IME.
I'm amazed that some people can hear the most fantastic things when they replace cable brand A with cable brand B. I'll bet my entire equipment that they don't succeed in a double blind test...
Better spend the money on some nice music.
I'm amazed that some people can hear the most fantastic things when they replace cable brand A with cable brand B. I'll bet my entire equipment that they don't succeed in a double blind test...
Better spend the money on some nice music.
I always drop an entire bottle on the cable as i trip over the darn wire, after which i pour a higher alcotane over myself.
Fancy cables are for the cat walk : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39YUXIKrOFk
Fancy cables are for the cat walk : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39YUXIKrOFk
Maybe the pursuit is better served by differentiating between dB references under discussion. The frequency response aberrations in Figure 5 of the Pass paper when measured, as a common example, at the output of a transformer coupled tube amp is considered a flaw and proof of poor design. When caused by wires it's treated as trivially inaudible. This dichotomy naturally leads to confusion and unnecessary conflict. It's rectifiable with a simple scaling modification. One proposal is to separate dB TaH (Truth and Honesty) from dB GaW (Gurus and Wizards), where deviations GaW would be understood as much worse than TaH. Participants would then understand in advance that in the common listening environment, say, +- 0.5 dB Tah is rigorously and scientifically inaudible, +- 0.5 dB GaW an offense to logical process and advancement.
A side advantage of this or similar systems is guaranteed acceptance into many audio discussions without notice.
most people are shocked when they see I'm using 1.5mm twin and earth, with earth ripped out. I've even had a 'pro audio' guy go all twisted with rage - 'they'll work harden, you have no idea what your doing ect'.
I've tried expensive cables, stranded sounds 'spalshy' and solid sounds solid, hence the reason I use twin and earth, dirt cheap and sounds good to MY ears any anyone who don't like the sound of my system knows where the door is.
Experimentation is where its at!
And here's an experiment
I've tried expensive cables, stranded sounds 'spalshy' and solid sounds solid, hence the reason I use twin and earth, dirt cheap and sounds good to MY ears any anyone who don't like the sound of my system knows where the door is.
Experimentation is where its at!
And here's an experiment
Attachments
I second that 1000%!
I did the extension cord test (as speaker cables) with some friends... I sleeved one nicely so it looks good in my room.
I made them listen to my system with the same extension cord but as I bought it, not sleeved... They told me it sounded just ok but I really shouldn't use that... Told them it was just a joke and changed it for the sleeved one... This one looked much better, expensive, had banana jacks... Told them I paid 800$
All of a sudden it sounded marvelous, blah, blah, blah... Told them it was the same cable as the other but just sleeved... They never believed me... I had to gut open the cable...
I don't believe in expensive cables, but I did before reading the articles (used to have some expensive wires) and tried for myself... You still have to buy some decent quality copper and the right gauge size, insulation, etc... It is harder to make good quality interconnects then speaker wires but it is worth the time to save money and be proud you did it...
Expensive cables are nice to look at though...
Ciao!
Do
Many cable companies go to great length and cost to produce their cables though. Its not all just standard wire in fancy packaging with marketing nonsense. They also have dedicated listening rooms to listen to their cables. So it may not be a scam it could be that the companies really believe their claims even if they are false.
Just because they believe it dosnt mean its true or not a scam. And what do you think there marketing/research budget ratio really is. (or there profit margin on a cable) Probably way out of line with speaker or electronics manufacturers.
I use what I like and what I feel offers value to me. Everybody else should do the same.
I don't care what somebody else paid for cables.
I don't care what anyone else uses for cables.
I only care about what I like and what I use.
I might ask an opinion of someone whom I know has a good ear, but that's all it is ... an opinion.
Price and value are never equal; I don't care what the subject is.
Complaining about the price by attacking the value is a waste of effort. Complaining about the price alone is a bigger waste of effort.
Most people buy expensive things with no Earthly Use at some time in their lives. People buy expensive rings for their girlfriends ... note I did not say "wife" because that's not who gets the ring ... and the entire Diamond Engagement Industry is a fabrication of DeBeers and some magazine ads.
Nobody on the planet bought diamond engagement rings before the 1920's. It was unheard of, even amongst the wealthy.
But, because of those ads people put a value on a cut diamond. The high-dollar cable guys' own ads mean people put a value on those cables. Because there is perceived value ... we can completely ignore the retail cost ... someone will buy that cable or diamond on the second hand market.
That is why some people buy boutique cables. Because they can sell them if need be, they don't have confidence in their own choices, they need validation and a retail price tag is part validation.
Some other people buy them because they perceive a performance value to them. Good for them; they apparently know what they want. I say if they can buy it somewhere, let them. The world is a better place when we can get the products we want.
Others make or purchase cables of relatively obscure provenance, based on performance alone, and they may be products no-one has heard of or products you made yourself. Maybe is's pure experimentation. Lots of times these cables end up dressed up all pretty, even though there is no performance advantage and possibly even a detriment.
In all those cases it's obvious that the value ... what someone will pay you for it today, or alternately what it would take in money to get someone to part with them ... is unrelated to the retail cost, and is unrelated to the performance.
I have a watch on my wrist that cost my boss $1000. Do I like the watch? You bet I do. Do I like it because it was a gift that he didn't need to give me? Absolutely. Do I like it because it was given to me for a job well done? Totally I do. Do I like it more because it's expensive? Yes, I have to admit that I do. Does it keep time better than a $30 quartz watch? Nope.
Is $1000 expensive for a watch? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the buyer or the recipient of the gift. It's expensive because it's more than I would pay for the utility alone, but it might not be expensive as a piece of jewelry, which a watch at some level always is.
So, get over it. Use what you want to use and screw everyone else. Save your family from what you perceive as a cable scam, let everyone else decide on their own. Tell them what you think of it as a cable with a job to do. Mention price as a matter of simple fact ... even DIY lampcord costs something. Forget the editorializing about the cost; no two people put the same value on anything. You'll live longer.
I don't care what somebody else paid for cables.
I don't care what anyone else uses for cables.
I only care about what I like and what I use.
I might ask an opinion of someone whom I know has a good ear, but that's all it is ... an opinion.
Price and value are never equal; I don't care what the subject is.
Complaining about the price by attacking the value is a waste of effort. Complaining about the price alone is a bigger waste of effort.
Most people buy expensive things with no Earthly Use at some time in their lives. People buy expensive rings for their girlfriends ... note I did not say "wife" because that's not who gets the ring ... and the entire Diamond Engagement Industry is a fabrication of DeBeers and some magazine ads.
Nobody on the planet bought diamond engagement rings before the 1920's. It was unheard of, even amongst the wealthy.
But, because of those ads people put a value on a cut diamond. The high-dollar cable guys' own ads mean people put a value on those cables. Because there is perceived value ... we can completely ignore the retail cost ... someone will buy that cable or diamond on the second hand market.
That is why some people buy boutique cables. Because they can sell them if need be, they don't have confidence in their own choices, they need validation and a retail price tag is part validation.
Some other people buy them because they perceive a performance value to them. Good for them; they apparently know what they want. I say if they can buy it somewhere, let them. The world is a better place when we can get the products we want.
Others make or purchase cables of relatively obscure provenance, based on performance alone, and they may be products no-one has heard of or products you made yourself. Maybe is's pure experimentation. Lots of times these cables end up dressed up all pretty, even though there is no performance advantage and possibly even a detriment.
In all those cases it's obvious that the value ... what someone will pay you for it today, or alternately what it would take in money to get someone to part with them ... is unrelated to the retail cost, and is unrelated to the performance.
I have a watch on my wrist that cost my boss $1000. Do I like the watch? You bet I do. Do I like it because it was a gift that he didn't need to give me? Absolutely. Do I like it because it was given to me for a job well done? Totally I do. Do I like it more because it's expensive? Yes, I have to admit that I do. Does it keep time better than a $30 quartz watch? Nope.
Is $1000 expensive for a watch? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the buyer or the recipient of the gift. It's expensive because it's more than I would pay for the utility alone, but it might not be expensive as a piece of jewelry, which a watch at some level always is.
So, get over it. Use what you want to use and screw everyone else. Save your family from what you perceive as a cable scam, let everyone else decide on their own. Tell them what you think of it as a cable with a job to do. Mention price as a matter of simple fact ... even DIY lampcord costs something. Forget the editorializing about the cost; no two people put the same value on anything. You'll live longer.
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I recently purchased some Canare LV77S because it was used by Blue Jeans cable. It has all the right stats for interconnects from a theoretical point of view. I replaced some cheaply made DIY cables made from 20ga solid core copper run through 18ga Teflon tubing. I twisted the pairs lightly with about a 1 inch spacing between points in twist. In my opinion, the Canare cables sound bright/sparkly/thin compared to DIY effort. If I have heard a difference, I would say it is between solid vs stranded. Dunno the reason
Don't forget the improvements to be had with a nice glass of wine.
Applys to more than audio.... Life!
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