I think you're correct.
Many similar things were said about my huge FLH system, so I am not surprised at your findings.
My added 'correction' and emphasis.
As I have stated more than once in this thread, many philes hear a bad PA and therefore assume that the parts are garbage, when it is not the case. Use them thoughtfully and they can be superb.
Not Dr. Geddes, but I run a 4-sub system. I use a Velodyne SMS-1 (not as powerful and a lot more expensive than the Behringer piece, but the on-screen real time display of the spatially averaged response - with their MIC-5 spatial averaging kit - makes tuning quicker, and it's much more attractive) as a line driver for my three floor subs, and daisychain the high-mounted sub off of the nearest floor sub.
Yes, I certainly agree! Implementation is key. For me that begins with the crossover, but there is much more to it than that.
It's everything, no one aspect of a good loudspeaker is responsible for its quality. It's the whole package, with emphasis on polar response and frequency response in the critical range where our hearing is "highly evolved".
Cool thanks. Ever try stereo subs? Just wondering if there is a reason for the mono summed but I guess that would make it more straight forward for 3 subs. And I guess I would be worried about phase cancellation on certain recordings.
Only on DIY would we get an Altec vs Von Schweikert shootout. I love it! I was at a party the other day where the singer/MC/DJ was using some PA type EVs. I was kinda surprised at how well they did but there was still some weird coloration in the horn imo. You could really hear it when he played a song with a muted trumpet.
Only on DIY would we get an Altec vs Von Schweikert shootout. I love it! I was at a party the other day where the singer/MC/DJ was using some PA type EVs. I was kinda surprised at how well they did but there was still some weird coloration in the horn imo. You could really hear it when he played a song with a muted trumpet.
Good point. Maybe the power compression was causing distortion? I don't know. At moderate levels they sounded equal volume. But when pushed a bit, the V2 was distorting, the Altec was clean and had to be turned up to get the same subjective level.
But in many way this was not a fair fight. The Altec VOTTs are huge compared to the little V2 towers. The 291 midrange compression driver probably weighs more than all the V2 drivers combined.
My opinion is that if you want nice sound in a domestic living room setting, a set of similar slim towers is the way to go. Good sound in a reasonably sized box. Putting Altec A7/A5 in your living room is not normally considered "reasonable." (But a pair of Altec model 19 or Geddes Summa might be).
Most recordings have mono bass, or at least that was true when we tested them several years ago, but I doubt that much has changed. It still makes sense to blend all the LF signals to mono.
An Altec A7 - great speakers when I had them 30 years ago, but things have moved on quite a bit since then. A7s, then 4430s then Summas - all in exactly the same vein, but each one with notable and significant technical improvements at every level, and yet, in real dollars, each one cheaper than its predicessor.
This is only true with pan potted material ime. You use 2 non coincidence mics and the bass with have transient information that will get canceled when summed to mono. Also a couple of my favorite artists seem to use bass which is out of phase at times - Hendrix and Floyd. Try playing Pink Floyd - Echoes. On my system there are two basses two kicks hard panned. I have never tried playing this song with mono summed subs I just thought intuitively that this song might be a good example of when to use a stereo sub.
I tend to do everything in digital as well which when summing to mono means I have to drop the overall volume 6dB to avoid clipping. I just find it easier to keep it stereo ime.
I tend to do everything in digital as well which when summing to mono means I have to drop the overall volume 6dB to avoid clipping. I just find it easier to keep it stereo ime.
Not exactly. This is only true when the mics are spaced more than a quarter wave length apart which is rare for sub freqs. And the transient info is not low freq. (at 20hz the max transient time is about 1/40sec, listen to a kick drum thru a sub only and see how much transient is left). If your subs are rolled off properly low enough, you should have trouble locating them blind. So even if the bass is stereo the parts of it that give you your localization dont go anywhere near the sub. And any decent mixer will check his mix for mono compatability, or he will be in for a suprise. (I still hear FM radio that is summed mono)
When you use mono referencing you severely limit your options in stereo. There are a TON of recordings with the bass panned either hard or with more than one signal that is out of phase in respects to L and R. This is a natural thing imo and can be introduced in a number of ways including pan pots.
Every recording I have listened to since I last posted has had bass all over the stereo range and these are no slouch recordings. It is a physical limitation of the stereo format that there must be a phase difference with similar sounds in respect to L or R or they are not in L and R anymore they are in the center. Some people seem to think that this hard panning stuff is limited to late sixties recordings but I am hearing it all over the place.
Every recording I have listened to since I last posted has had bass all over the stereo range and these are no slouch recordings. It is a physical limitation of the stereo format that there must be a phase difference with similar sounds in respect to L or R or they are not in L and R anymore they are in the center. Some people seem to think that this hard panning stuff is limited to late sixties recordings but I am hearing it all over the place.
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I think you misunderstand. Checking a mix for mono compatability is to make sure the intrument tone/balance is close to the stereo mix. Hard panning is fine, its material with large L R phase shifts that can be a problem. How many of these recordings change instrument levels when summed to mono?
No I understand what it is for. It is a relic from a time when stereo to mono fold downs were a common practice across the board. I don't have a million dollars to bribe an FM station to play my song so mono checking is not an issue. I reference UP but that is something not talked about as much which makes way more sense.
When you fold down a stereo mix if it is a discrete mix, stereo mic, etc... There is most likely always information which is different in phase in the ambience or reverb whatever. This always cancels out in a fold down and I really don't care how my stereo mix sounds this way because it has nothing to do with stereo.
When you fold down a stereo mix if it is a discrete mix, stereo mic, etc... There is most likely always information which is different in phase in the ambience or reverb whatever. This always cancels out in a fold down and I really don't care how my stereo mix sounds this way because it has nothing to do with stereo.
Sure the reverb has out of phase signals but we were talking low end and I bet very few recordings have low freq that dissapear when monoed. So stereo subs are a waste.
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