Yes, when using a SET, you need speakers that can be successfully driven by it. As mentioned, they need to be efficient enough, but equally important is that they have a fairly flat impedance across the frequency spectrum. Often the impedance curve of a speaker looks like a roller coaster in the bass region. Driving that speaker with a SET is likely to result in mushy bass. Even worse is if the speakers have high impedance variation in the mid range or the treble. This article is a good read on the subject: Arpeggio Loudspeaker - diyAudio
I think that you could design your amplifier yourself, even if it is your first project. There are some good tutorials on the net. Just be very careful to understand the dangers of high voltage before you begin.
Good luck with your build! 🙂
Great replys by all! Thank you!!!
Somehow someone assumed I was about to design my own, and im not sure how the heck that came up lol... I know all to well that id be better off buying books right now than trying to cobble components together.. That said, im trying to understand the design of my SE 300B and why its the way it is... believe high on the designers list was maximum output for bragging rights, may be at the cost of tube life... but thats my newb mind, and those thoughts got me thinking about what an experienced designer might consider priorities..
Aside from open floor plans ( previous post) or
aesthetics, my assumption on designing an amp was to reproduce sound with as much detail, with enough power, within a reasonably flat frequency response as possible. Obviously those who like Solid State would prefer one type of sound over another, i believe most tube amp lovers prefer a different sound.. regardless of choice, i also believe that a truly great sounding amp would leave all with mouths gaping open at the splendor of its amazement (wax on .. check)
But more to the point, i see many folks talk about this amp or that one, stating why they believe its superior and i understand its somewhat subjective, wondered what common ground there was between the majority of designers out here...
Again, awesome replies by all.. ty
Somehow someone assumed I was about to design my own, and im not sure how the heck that came up lol... I know all to well that id be better off buying books right now than trying to cobble components together.. That said, im trying to understand the design of my SE 300B and why its the way it is... believe high on the designers list was maximum output for bragging rights, may be at the cost of tube life... but thats my newb mind, and those thoughts got me thinking about what an experienced designer might consider priorities..
Aside from open floor plans ( previous post) or
aesthetics, my assumption on designing an amp was to reproduce sound with as much detail, with enough power, within a reasonably flat frequency response as possible. Obviously those who like Solid State would prefer one type of sound over another, i believe most tube amp lovers prefer a different sound.. regardless of choice, i also believe that a truly great sounding amp would leave all with mouths gaping open at the splendor of its amazement (wax on .. check)
But more to the point, i see many folks talk about this amp or that one, stating why they believe its superior and i understand its somewhat subjective, wondered what common ground there was between the majority of designers out here...
Again, awesome replies by all.. ty
I agree with what You say, but considering the voltages involved inside an 845 SET, I wouldn't encourage it as a first build! Just saying
Personally, for a first timer- I would say go for an established design and buy quality transformers to go with it. Something like Hammond or Edcor is a good bet for a first build. An established design like the Tubelab Simple SE is a great opportunity for a beginner to have success, and it can be built with commonly available tubes. it's such a simple circuit that it's easy to upgrade as your skill and taste evolves. Something like a 6L6, KT88, 6550, or, EL34 SE Tubelab build is a great first build that will drive plenty of reasonably efficient speakers to comfortable listening levels.
Don't get hung up on having to choose specific audiophile grade parts like special capacitors, NOS or gaudy branded tubes. Just use quality stuff rated for the use, and geek out on the details as you build.
You'll love it, and soon find things you want to do different next time, and before you know it you'll be building another. 😉
Don't get hung up on having to choose specific audiophile grade parts like special capacitors, NOS or gaudy branded tubes. Just use quality stuff rated for the use, and geek out on the details as you build.
You'll love it, and soon find things you want to do different next time, and before you know it you'll be building another. 😉
Did you hear SE and PP ??
Could you compare them?
The difference is that they are very different amplifiers, with different distortion patterns.
You're looking for an SE by adding the 2nd and 4th harmonics to the main signal I guess.
Once ruled out that I am looking for an SE, I would have to know how many watts I need, or what speakers I have.
There are SE between 1w and 10w. ( And much more )
Once I know how many W I want or need, I should go to the second stage.
Choose components to obtain the desired results.
Could you use a schematics or do your our design.
Judgment , criteria , words that come to mind.
Could you compare them?
The difference is that they are very different amplifiers, with different distortion patterns.
You're looking for an SE by adding the 2nd and 4th harmonics to the main signal I guess.
Once ruled out that I am looking for an SE, I would have to know how many watts I need, or what speakers I have.
There are SE between 1w and 10w. ( And much more )
Once I know how many W I want or need, I should go to the second stage.
Choose components to obtain the desired results.
Could you use a schematics or do your our design.
Judgment , criteria , words that come to mind.
I second that. Power supply . . . Power supply . . . Power supply.
The power supply IS the amp. The other parts are just there to modulate the power supply.
Imagine a pig with makeup and sexy underwear . . . that's an amp with a lousy power supply.
There are good parts that don't cost a fortune. I also wouldn't start with an amp that needs $$$ tubes. I've built some wonderful sounding SE amps using JJ EL34L tubes with 15W Edcor OT. As others have said, a solid/low noise power supply is key to a nice sounding amp. I also believe SE amps sound better when the output tubes are biased pretty hot with a lot of B+, another reason to use cheap output tubes lol. I do like Mundorf Alum/oil coupling caps and feel at $15, that's not a lot of money to spend on something directly in the audio signal path.
Not to dampen your enthusiasm but: As a 100% newbee you do not design a new amp!
There are enough proven designs available designed by people who have studied vacuum tube technology and have years of experience plus the design will have been well tested and fine tuned. Do not try to use an obscure design that was made in the last 10, 20 years, go back to the 50's or even 60's. "Modern" designs may be fickle to component choices, especially output transformers can give you lots of grief and tuning the negative feedback loop is not for the beginners if you wat stability under all circumstances. There will be exceptions in the modern designs that have been build by many people.
There are enough proven designs available designed by people who have studied vacuum tube technology and have years of experience plus the design will have been well tested and fine tuned. Do not try to use an obscure design that was made in the last 10, 20 years, go back to the 50's or even 60's. "Modern" designs may be fickle to component choices, especially output transformers can give you lots of grief and tuning the negative feedback loop is not for the beginners if you wat stability under all circumstances. There will be exceptions in the modern designs that have been build by many people.
Fundamentally and most importantly, education, understanding the basics, theory. (Ohms Law, Electronics, etc)
Read Books, absorb.
This then leads to a much better outcome of success.
I never said I was designing my own amp...
Asking a question here is some times like herding hamsters...
brouhaha, we make da answer fit da question!But, to the folks who answered it thank you again
I never said I was designing my own amp...
Asking a question here is some times like herding hamsters...
But, to the folks who answered it thank you again
Congratulations for insulting the helpful members here. The title of this thread clearly states:
"Prioritys in designing a SE amp ?"
and you are the first to go on my ignore list.
Not surpisingly, a substantial amount of "new people" just want to dive in and ignore any fundamentals of electronics - because to them, it's "just too boring" to be bothered with.
"Why learn those dumb fundamentals?... why waste time reading that dumb stuff?.... skip that nonsense and hand me a soldering iron, I want a quick fix, so hit me up with some answers instead."
I see this all the time.
Along with the failures that go with it.
When you order the output xfmr, (OPT) be sure that it is designed for use as a SE amplifier one. Since DC current flows through it in an unbalanced manner, the core will be magnetized, which is highly undesirable, and the way this is handled is to put an air gap in the core to greatly lessen DC core magnetization. In a push pull OPT, the two opposing tubes cancel out this magnetization, so no intentional gap is needed. Not so in an S.E. design.
Output transformers is the thing that put the rubber on the road so to speak. You can have the best of everything and if the output transformer isn’t up to it the sound will suffer. Spend all the money you can on a quality OPT and you can’t lose. It’s the one item never upgraded on a project. You’ll try new circuit designs, new caps, new resistors, but the old OPT will remain. If you start out with the best you can afford you will never be unhappy. With a lesser unit all the great things you did to the circuit will go unnoticed if lost in a cheap OPT. Resistor and cap upgrades are cheap so who cares if you change them a few times but you’ll never change the OPT! Think about it.
I understand completely what yours saying. I certainly am trying to learn as much as I can, and not ignoring anything.
Some things are a little less intuitive than others, and hell some things are not intuitive at all.
I imagine many things can only be learned by listening and trying...
These are the things I am questioning.
That said, Im asking everyone for what you consider important. And Why. Im not asking for the obvious non response like, Oh, your a newb, don't design anything.
How is anyone supposed to learn if asking questions is responded with learn the basics... Kind of what I thought I was doing by asking to begin with.
But again, I will say thank you to all who continue to answer!!! (on topic, and off topic.. Just please dont answer by suggesting I dont ask the question lol...)
From what I read so far, hoping others add to it, but right now I see many say the OPT is of premo imortanto, and a close second is power supply, and If I understand correctly, the various component quality (Caps, chokes and resistors). I understand I cant say last place is the type of tubes, becuase everything actually works in concert so in all honesty I know every component does matter. But, given a good, well executed design the tubes to dial in the sound further.
SO, within reason I know the circuit design plays a huge role. Thanks to the youtubers out there, I see changing a circuit layout, even a little sometimes can make a huge difference.
My next question, to expand on this a little further is limited to mass production tube amps... How often do you folks think the circuit was just designed poorly ?
SO, within reason I know the circuit design plays a huge role. Thanks to the youtubers out there, I see changing a circuit layout, even a little sometimes can make a huge difference.
My next question, to expand on this a little further is limited to mass production tube amps... How often do you folks think the circuit was just designed poorly ?
Two articles you might want to read:
http://www.timebanditaudio.com/300b/WE91A.pdf
This was my first DIY amp. It's easy to build and sounds terrific, which will give you some confidence going forward. Parts are not expensive. Magnequest transformers are no longer available, to my knowledge, so consider Electraprint.
https://www.wavelengthaudio.com/bugle.pdf
Only two watts, but the esteemed Gordon Rankin, one of the best audio designers ever, walks you through the design process.
http://www.timebanditaudio.com/300b/WE91A.pdf
This was my first DIY amp. It's easy to build and sounds terrific, which will give you some confidence going forward. Parts are not expensive. Magnequest transformers are no longer available, to my knowledge, so consider Electraprint.
https://www.wavelengthaudio.com/bugle.pdf
Only two watts, but the esteemed Gordon Rankin, one of the best audio designers ever, walks you through the design process.
Both the Reisong A12 and the Boyuurange A50 are horribly designed and out of the box don't even begin to produce their rated specs. The odd thing is several "Very well known and experienced" reviewers rave about how great they are! I did a whole YouTube series on both of these, exposing their flaws and then how to fix them. I honestly have no idea why anyone reviewing either of those amps would praise them.
That said, if you are willing to do some soldering, the A10/A12 can be made into a really decent sounding tube amp, especially at the $500 price point.
That is why I opted to purchase those Dynaco "clone" Z565 transformers from Triode Electronics for my EL84 amp.
Tests, observations and reviews on them were stellar, so I wasn't too worried.
And I'm so glad I took the plunge.🙂
At the time (2003), they cost me around $70 each, later the price skyrocketed, now the site dosn't list them.