Hello all, I built an SSE last year and have been very pleased with it. My only real complaint is that I have to physically disconnect and reconnect cables if I want to listen to different sources. So I'm thinking of a building or buying a preamp. The other possibility is to just add a few more inputs and a source selector to the SSE (and possibly a headphone out). Right now, I have just two sources, an SL-1200>Schiit Mani and a TEAC NT-505 streamer/DAC. The TEAC has balanced outs along with SE outs.
So I'm here to solicit advice from fellow Tubelab owners on how they handle their source selects and get some ideas.
I'm considering the following preamps: Bottlehead BeePree (or new Moreplay?), Transcendent Sound Masterpiece, one of the Aikido boards, a Schiit Freya +, or a passive Nobsound.
Seems like a lot of choices, and I may be all over the map on this...What is everyone else using, and how do you like it?
Thanks,
-Jeff
BTW, I recently was able to A/B my amp against a Hegel H90 and while the Hegel definitely had better control of the woofer, the SSE sounded smoother and more lifelike to me..
So I'm here to solicit advice from fellow Tubelab owners on how they handle their source selects and get some ideas.
I'm considering the following preamps: Bottlehead BeePree (or new Moreplay?), Transcendent Sound Masterpiece, one of the Aikido boards, a Schiit Freya +, or a passive Nobsound.
Seems like a lot of choices, and I may be all over the map on this...What is everyone else using, and how do you like it?
Thanks,
-Jeff
BTW, I recently was able to A/B my amp against a Hegel H90 and while the Hegel definitely had better control of the woofer, the SSE sounded smoother and more lifelike to me..
I am building my SSE with input select, volume pot, and a sub out integrated. I am using this switch to select between 2 inputs. This will feed a 10k Alps pot that will then split the output to the SSE and RCA outs for a sub-woofer. It is not complete yet so I can't comment on how well it works but this is the plan.
My thought was I don't need additional gain and the SSE has a relatively high input impedance so I am hoping a passive input stage will work out with a simple input select. I also considered the Schiit SYS or even a B1 buffer but based on some preliminary tests with the SSE I think it will work without an additional input stage.
I should caveat all this with I am very much a newbie at building amps but did try to research as much as I could before committing to my build.
My thought was I don't need additional gain and the SSE has a relatively high input impedance so I am hoping a passive input stage will work out with a simple input select. I also considered the Schiit SYS or even a B1 buffer but based on some preliminary tests with the SSE I think it will work without an additional input stage.
I should caveat all this with I am very much a newbie at building amps but did try to research as much as I could before committing to my build.
Neither of you list your speakers, room size, and music preference, which is all important to an answer of whether or not going passive is the right choice. An output of 4 to 6 Watts is all about headroom.
Whether or not you'd prefer active or passive depends upon speaker efficiency, room size, music choice, and your ears.
For several years I used the SSE with just a box containing a cheap Ebay ladder-type stepped attenuator and a rotary selector and that was fine with my 97dB speakers, smallish room, 50's Jazz and female vocals. Large orchestral, however, was missing impact.
In the past 5 years I have gone to a pair of 60 Watt mono blocks Mullard 5-20 KT88 PP blocks! page 102, which showed me what I was missing in dynamic headroom. More recently I built the adaptation, by a friend, of the JE Labs 76 Line Stage. I've found that I prefer how it further improves sound stage and dynamics. I've got a point-to-point wired SSE on the bench right now and look forward to hearing that with the 76.
Only you can determine which choices are more satisfying and only by trying both.
I would recommend against the Alps pot which I've never liked in comparison to either the PEC, TKD, or my current Audio Note which recently came on the market. I wonder why Spiggs is choosing to use a 10k pot, not 50 or 100k.
For just 2 inputs, I also recommend a DPDT toggle from Greyhill, NKK, or my current, this one https://www.partsconnexion.com/SWITCH-79818.html from Parts Connexion which is less fiddly to solder.
Whether or not you'd prefer active or passive depends upon speaker efficiency, room size, music choice, and your ears.
For several years I used the SSE with just a box containing a cheap Ebay ladder-type stepped attenuator and a rotary selector and that was fine with my 97dB speakers, smallish room, 50's Jazz and female vocals. Large orchestral, however, was missing impact.
In the past 5 years I have gone to a pair of 60 Watt mono blocks Mullard 5-20 KT88 PP blocks! page 102, which showed me what I was missing in dynamic headroom. More recently I built the adaptation, by a friend, of the JE Labs 76 Line Stage. I've found that I prefer how it further improves sound stage and dynamics. I've got a point-to-point wired SSE on the bench right now and look forward to hearing that with the 76.
Only you can determine which choices are more satisfying and only by trying both.
I would recommend against the Alps pot which I've never liked in comparison to either the PEC, TKD, or my current Audio Note which recently came on the market. I wonder why Spiggs is choosing to use a 10k pot, not 50 or 100k.
For just 2 inputs, I also recommend a DPDT toggle from Greyhill, NKK, or my current, this one https://www.partsconnexion.com/SWITCH-79818.html from Parts Connexion which is less fiddly to solder.
Hi Bill, thanks for the reply.
Speakers are modified Klipsch Heresy. For more info see: Super Heresy 1 (Baby Cornwalls Mod.) - Page 24 - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community I'd guess they're in the 90-100 db range, but don't know for sure. We're about to move and the new room is ~13x18 if memory serves me well.
Music I listen to is mostly rock and jazz with the occasional acoustic and very rarely classical.
I do get the headroom comment. I was coming from a 100w SS Denon amp and while I hear a big difference in the quality of the sound from the SSE, there is something that the Denon had in terms of umph for lack of a better word.
For that reason I'm still trying to decide if I should build or buy a nice pre with some more gain. If I upgrade the SSE, I'd probably get a Goldpoint 24 stepped volume control and something like the switch you linked.
You've definitely got my gears turning though, and I'll look into that JE Labs line stage. I've been toying with the idea of building his Simple 2A3 for a while, but not sure I have the skills yet...that may be further down the line for me.
Speakers are modified Klipsch Heresy. For more info see: Super Heresy 1 (Baby Cornwalls Mod.) - Page 24 - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community I'd guess they're in the 90-100 db range, but don't know for sure. We're about to move and the new room is ~13x18 if memory serves me well.
Music I listen to is mostly rock and jazz with the occasional acoustic and very rarely classical.
I do get the headroom comment. I was coming from a 100w SS Denon amp and while I hear a big difference in the quality of the sound from the SSE, there is something that the Denon had in terms of umph for lack of a better word.
For that reason I'm still trying to decide if I should build or buy a nice pre with some more gain. If I upgrade the SSE, I'd probably get a Goldpoint 24 stepped volume control and something like the switch you linked.
You've definitely got my gears turning though, and I'll look into that JE Labs line stage. I've been toying with the idea of building his Simple 2A3 for a while, but not sure I have the skills yet...that may be further down the line for me.
You shouldn’t need a preamp. The output from your sources should be enough to drive the sse to clipping without any additional gain
Like I said I am new to the amp building world so I just followed the designers lead on how to setup the SSE with a subwoofer out.
SSE sub woofer output.
My room is about 16' x 20' and I sit 9' away from the speakers. The system consists of a Schiit Mani and Modi 3 as sources, a pair of Fostex FF105WK speakers in Planet 10 mFonken boxes, and a SVS SB1000 sub. I listen to a wide range of music, punk, classical, opera, jazz, electronica, etc.. My speakers while not extremely efficient at 88db being full range do have a gentle impedance curve and I find they work well with lower powered class A amps. Of course they are just 4" speakers so dynamics are limited no matter what you do. I however must not listen very loud because whether it's the Cramps or Carmina Burana 5 watts has been enough for me.
Last edited:
The Schiit SYS may work well for you. It's cheap and simple. I started to use one with my SSE after my better half got sick of swapping cables.
There’s no question that most any source will drive an amp to call the police levels.
I find, though, that on large orchestral, a good pre-amp adds a dimension of spaciousness and dynamic range that more closely resembles my experience of hearing the instruments from my 60 year long perspective from the trombone section 😀
This was my first idea, and what got me started on passive preamps.
Will definitely work for what I need..
But I think Bill has a point re: active preamps. I think for right now I'm going to just sit tight til after I move next week. Bottlehead is supposed to release a new pre soon as well, so there might be another option 😕
Spiggs, I might tap off the input line after the selector but before the Volume pot to get a line out for a headphone amp. Other possibility is after the SSE board but before the speaker jacks. This would switch to a headphone jack with some resistors to get the output down to reasonable levels. There's some info floating around here on how to do that, but I don't have it in front of me right now.
Last edited:
I have thought about adding in a headphone jack as well. There is this thread that talks about it. A project for later though.
Please report back your findings with the pre-amp. I myself have an AKSA Lender pre/HPA that I tried the SSE with when I was testing and it sounded great but also sounded great without it. However you and BillEpstein are in a whole other league speaker wise (and likely critical listening) from me so I would not be surprised if we come to different conclusions.
I have to agree with Bill's experience with the Type 76 preamp. I sounds great with the SSE or SE (I have both).
Of course, there are others. I also have Supratek (6SN7),type 26(transformer coupled) and type 01A (mu follower) and they are absolutely marvelous with the Tubelab amps. If you like SS, then I suggest to check out Wayne's BA2018 preamp thread here at diyaudio under Passlabs or if active buffer is your thing, Mesmerize by Salas et al.
I too have high efficiency speakers (Altecs). Yes, you might not need a preamp but you have to be careful about source matching. Preamps allows you to eliminate most if not all of this problem. Before saying no to preamp, borrow an active one, say 76 preamp if you can, and then see for yourself.
For those using a pre-amp with their SSE do you find the additional gain useful? I think the SSE has around 30db of gain and that is more than I have been targeting for total system gain with other amps and pre-amps I have tried.
Thanks for the input amandarae! I have to say that I discovered your youtube videos a while back and they were a big inspiration to me to get into DIY audio. So seeing your reply was a very pleasant surprise!
I've been studying the 76 preamp off JElabs site and I'm starting to consider giving it a shot. The SSE was my first foray into amp building, and while it went well, I haven't built anything point to point off a schematic yet, so it does seems a bit of a leap.
Hey Spiggs, check this link: Power amp adapter | DIY-Audio-Heaven
there's some good info about connecting headphones to amps and general headphone info.
In regards to my speakers, I was looking at speakers in the $2-$3k range, but just couldn't justify spending that much. I decided to try this rebuild instead..spent may be 1/2 on them, and I'm very happy with the way they turned out.
Klipsch Heresy's can be found pretty regularly on craigslist for ~$400-500. I think I paid $500 for mine. With another few hundred you can re-cap the cross overs and put new in woofers and tweeters/tweeter horns that seriously improve the quality of sound. Super easy..
Big thread you can read all about it here: Super Heresy 1 (Baby Cornwalls Mod.) - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community
Oh, and did I mention the Lenco L-75 I bought last year that is waiting to be restored???
Welcome!
You will be fine, don't worry. Just read a little, plan ahead, ask questions, and build at your own pace. If I can help with some pointers in building the 76 preamp, let me know.
Abe
Last edited:
Here's documentation of my build of the 76 Line Stage with schematic from the ever generous Steve Brown who's helped me build nearly everything for 20 years. I built mine after we both decided to build them on his recommendation and used custom wound 250V power transformers from Heyboer with a 7V tap to feed the LV Reg.
One of the keys, the John Broskie LV-Regulator LV-Regulator for the filament supply.
The power supply Steve designed which simplified and strengthened the original
Please ignore the blue ink scratchings I added. I can never rely on my memory for pin-outs😀
And finally, my build
One important change done after was sourcing 5 pin sockets from Angela which replaced the POS originals from Ebay.
One of the keys, the John Broskie LV-Regulator LV-Regulator for the filament supply.
The power supply Steve designed which simplified and strengthened the original
Please ignore the blue ink scratchings I added. I can never rely on my memory for pin-outs😀
And finally, my build
One important change done after was sourcing 5 pin sockets from Angela which replaced the POS originals from Ebay.
Hello All- the 76 tube with a 6SN7 driver is a nice sounding preamp. I use it with my 45 TSE-II and love it. You might want to buy a bunch of 76 tubes because they tend to be microphonic. Once you find a couple you're satisfied with, it's all good.
Hello!
I built mine in 2008 and includes the phono section with battery bias.
At first, I dealt with microphonics too. But buying un-used NOS 76 tubes from reputable sellers assured me of its quality. I also installed silicon rubber bushing for the 76 sockets (not shown in the pic). It was very quiet after that.
Around 2010, I visited my friend JE (JE Labs) at his house in Manila and in his system, he uses 5Y3 or 5V4 in the PSU. I tried it and like it. The metal base GZ34 (as shown in the pic) is fime, but expensive. So I look for alternatives and found RCA 5V4 and Mazda 5Y3.
Also, make sure that the 6SN7 is a GB type as the sound is different if you use just regular 6SN7. It is evident on the dynamics (slam).
I tried CCS loading (linestage) and filament voltage regulation for the phono and line tubes. In the end, I revert back to the original circuit with the lifted filament voltage.
Looking back, it was a rewarding build. So much so that I accumulated type 76 tubes through the years (I use it in the preamp as well as my 2A3 amp). I still own the preamp. Sometimes, I connect it to the system and enjoy its sound.
Abe
I built mine in 2008 and includes the phono section with battery bias.
At first, I dealt with microphonics too. But buying un-used NOS 76 tubes from reputable sellers assured me of its quality. I also installed silicon rubber bushing for the 76 sockets (not shown in the pic). It was very quiet after that.
Around 2010, I visited my friend JE (JE Labs) at his house in Manila and in his system, he uses 5Y3 or 5V4 in the PSU. I tried it and like it. The metal base GZ34 (as shown in the pic) is fime, but expensive. So I look for alternatives and found RCA 5V4 and Mazda 5Y3.
Also, make sure that the 6SN7 is a GB type as the sound is different if you use just regular 6SN7. It is evident on the dynamics (slam).
I tried CCS loading (linestage) and filament voltage regulation for the phono and line tubes. In the end, I revert back to the original circuit with the lifted filament voltage.
Looking back, it was a rewarding build. So much so that I accumulated type 76 tubes through the years (I use it in the preamp as well as my 2A3 amp). I still own the preamp. Sometimes, I connect it to the system and enjoy its sound.
Abe
Last edited: