I had it in mind to experiment with transmission of power through sound waves. The chief motivation for this was the concern about radio waves and their effect on human health.
A little experimentation with a speaker and a multimeter showed that a few milliamps worth of power could be obtained by placing a speaker in front of a speaker playing music.
Predictably, someone has already put this effect into a commercial device, which is cool. 😎 Just found this link:
SonicEnergy | Wireless Energy
Will there be any patent issues implementing this...
A little experimentation with a speaker and a multimeter showed that a few milliamps worth of power could be obtained by placing a speaker in front of a speaker playing music.
Predictably, someone has already put this effect into a commercial device, which is cool. 😎 Just found this link:
SonicEnergy | Wireless Energy
Will there be any patent issues implementing this...
Are the patents on different microphone types still extant?
Cos that's what the speaker attached to the multimeter is acting as - a microphone.
Ultrasound follows the same basic physics as audible sound and large scale energy transfer is not (yet) possible via sound waves.
Cos that's what the speaker attached to the multimeter is acting as - a microphone.
Ultrasound follows the same basic physics as audible sound and large scale energy transfer is not (yet) possible via sound waves.
If you want to do something on your tabletop a few inches apart, you might light up an LED or something. But remember sound energy disperses exponentially. SO if you have notions of sending out deafening sound waves across town in hopes of running your air conditioner, I'd recommend against a major investment.
LOL <snort>
That said, perhaps the idea has merit for capturing energy from vibration. For example a device in your car could maybe charge your cell phone on a long road trip. Similar idea to a Seiko Kinetic watch, just on a larger scale.
I'd type "energy harvesting" into Google scholar before going too far down that rabbit hole, though.
Tom
Another topic full of snake oil and people who are using ill-informed logic over than elementary school science.
Look up "conservation of energy" Not just a good idea, it is the law.
If you are concerned with radio waves, there is a huge market of e-field shielding paints and materials you can shield your house with. Of course, there is always the tin-foil hat.
Microwaves are dangerous, as some cases of cancer were found in workers in the Sears Tower where a microwave relay station was beaming right at them. Very high energy for extended times. You will get far more damage from the radon emissions from the ground and cosmic rays. Did you know virtually everything above about 43 is unstable and even lithium ( 3) will eventually decay.
Look up "conservation of energy" Not just a good idea, it is the law.
If you are concerned with radio waves, there is a huge market of e-field shielding paints and materials you can shield your house with. Of course, there is always the tin-foil hat.
Microwaves are dangerous, as some cases of cancer were found in workers in the Sears Tower where a microwave relay station was beaming right at them. Very high energy for extended times. You will get far more damage from the radon emissions from the ground and cosmic rays. Did you know virtually everything above about 43 is unstable and even lithium ( 3) will eventually decay.
The commercial system uses targeted narrow beam ultrasound as I understand it. I would be very interested because I am concerned about EM radiation. This technology needs to be shared among multiple vendors I think, to ensure continuity.
Saw this on a BBC documentary recently: I am no near power lines but it makes you wonder. Meanwhile all the radio waves from radio stations in the land are coursing through my body.
Electromagnetic Field Lights Up Field of Florescent Tubes - Industry Tap
SO are cosmic rays. And neutrinos.
Focused beams? Fair enough. Now think about distribution of this power. WOuld every house have a tight beam receptor? The Power plant having thousands of transmitter dishes?
Focused beams? Fair enough. Now think about distribution of this power. WOuld every house have a tight beam receptor? The Power plant having thousands of transmitter dishes?
This system if for use indoors, I would think, which is fine. They may be able to do data as well through ultrasound but not sure about the bandwidth. Of course they could use light.
Here we go...
Alphabet delivers wireless Internet over light beams from 20km away | Ars Technica
Here we go...
Alphabet delivers wireless Internet over light beams from 20km away | Ars Technica
You appear to be getting confused between the electromagnetic spectrum (from low frequency radio, through microwaves, visible light and on to x-rays, gamma rays and so on) and sound waves, which operate in physical media like air or water only.
It does not matter how focussed a sound beam is, the energy density that would be needed to transfer 'power' over any more than a few feet would be enormous - and if you stood in the way of it your insides would suffer a great deal. Low frequency sound waves have been trialed as a weapon to stew up your organs. High frequency would be useless - it decays in very short distance and carries hardly any power.
It does not matter how focussed a sound beam is, the energy density that would be needed to transfer 'power' over any more than a few feet would be enormous - and if you stood in the way of it your insides would suffer a great deal. Low frequency sound waves have been trialed as a weapon to stew up your organs. High frequency would be useless - it decays in very short distance and carries hardly any power.
I'm not sure where that level of acidity came from. Nobody is talking about building a perpetual motion machine here.
Energy transmission is a thing. As is energy harvesting. The latter just means that you convert the energy into a useful state (such as electricity) rather than letting it dissipate as heat. Both comply with the laws of physics ... they have no other choice. 🙂
Tom
Why not use WiFi? Or Zigbee or any of the other data transmission methods? If you want something proprietary, you can transmit at low power within the ISM bands. Or if you want to transmit at higher power, get your HAM radio licence.
For transmitting power, wires are pretty darn efficient. You could probably power a sensor or something with ultrasound, but I doubt you'll reach the levels that SonicEnergy show in their marketing videos. The amount of ultrasonic energy that you'd need to pump into the room to power a forklift (as shown in SonicEnergy's marketing) would be insane. I doubt that'd be a healthy environment...
Tom
Last edited:
The company web site says it is a focused sound beam:
Technology | SonicEnergy
Obviously it works. Could not find any reviews.
SonicEnergy™ Announces Development Partnership with Airbus | SonicEnergy
Technology | SonicEnergy
Obviously it works. Could not find any reviews.
SonicEnergy™ Announces Development Partnership with Airbus | SonicEnergy
Ultrasound can be focused by a concave piezo generator or an acoustic lens to produce a narrow area of high resolution, called the focal zone.
The SonicEnergy site refers to a 'beam forming algorithm' - guess they're not going to reveal how that works!
They claim to be able to transmit useable power at a range of several metres to charge portable electronics, medical and aerospace devices.
I would like them to quantify what they mean by 'useable power' i.e. how many joules of energy can they transmit per second? In other words, what would be the battery charging time in a specific case?
The SonicEnergy site refers to a 'beam forming algorithm' - guess they're not going to reveal how that works!
They claim to be able to transmit useable power at a range of several metres to charge portable electronics, medical and aerospace devices.
I would like them to quantify what they mean by 'useable power' i.e. how many joules of energy can they transmit per second? In other words, what would be the battery charging time in a specific case?
Good question. Also do higher frequency signals contain more energy than lower frequency signals? Low frequencies, bass frequencies, require a lot of power to produce. Presumably a resonator would capture those frequencies.
Useful also for safe transmission of power, even at very low frequencies, for example charging phones or laptops.
As suggested, looked up sound harvesting:
A brief review of sound energy harvesting - ScienceDirect
A somewhat technical essay is here.
0.2 Volts? That does not say anything, if you had it one longer presumably it could charge more.
Makes you wonder: if the passing car has its subwoofers thumping away would it help?
I was just reading up on the dangers of EM radiation and it is really umm "concerning".
Useful also for safe transmission of power, even at very low frequencies, for example charging phones or laptops.
As suggested, looked up sound harvesting:
A brief review of sound energy harvesting - ScienceDirect
A somewhat technical essay is here.
0.2 Volts? That does not say anything, if you had it one longer presumably it could charge more.
Makes you wonder: if the passing car has its subwoofers thumping away would it help?
I was just reading up on the dangers of EM radiation and it is really umm "concerning".
Its probably a scam, or pyramid scheme.
Click on the link " its called ubeam" in the page listed below...and see where it goes to..
Ultrasonic Power Transfer: UBeam’s Curious Engineering | Hackaday
cheers,
Arthur
Click on the link " its called ubeam" in the page listed below...and see where it goes to..
Ultrasonic Power Transfer: UBeam’s Curious Engineering | Hackaday
cheers,
Arthur
Mid last century (1940's to 50's)high power ultrasonics were use in industry, it took the medical community a decade or so to understand the problems U/S exposure presented to humans, even at low exposure.
As it turns out, the eyes are a conduit for U/S transmission into the brain, 25khz to about 40 kHz.
Also, the lens of the eye is not liquid cooled, if a U/S beam heats the lens, cataracts.
This technology scares me.
Jn
As it turns out, the eyes are a conduit for U/S transmission into the brain, 25khz to about 40 kHz.
Also, the lens of the eye is not liquid cooled, if a U/S beam heats the lens, cataracts.
This technology scares me.
Jn
Power transmission efficiency through sound waves, one particular part of air pressure, is abysmal, because of two main reasons:
1) typical transducer effciency is very very low (think 1% or so) for speakers, not sure about microphones but it might be in the same range.
2) pressure wave disperses quickly and that´s an understatement.
Now, if we somehow address those problems then efficiency can rise dramatically.
3) Transmitter may be a piston inside an cylinder , air waves (say, @ 1 Hz) exiting through a pipe.
Receiver is a symmetrical transducer, receiving 1 Hz pressure waves through a pipe.
4) Transmitter and receiver may be joined by an airtight pipe.
5) notice we have not changed the operating mechanism in the least, we have just corrected huge losses.
Exact same Physics Laws apply in both examples: transducer piston sends power to transducer piston, and energy is carried exclusively through a soundwave.
1) typical transducer effciency is very very low (think 1% or so) for speakers, not sure about microphones but it might be in the same range.
2) pressure wave disperses quickly and that´s an understatement.
Now, if we somehow address those problems then efficiency can rise dramatically.
3) Transmitter may be a piston inside an cylinder , air waves (say, @ 1 Hz) exiting through a pipe.
Receiver is a symmetrical transducer, receiving 1 Hz pressure waves through a pipe.
4) Transmitter and receiver may be joined by an airtight pipe.
5) notice we have not changed the operating mechanism in the least, we have just corrected huge losses.
Exact same Physics Laws apply in both examples: transducer piston sends power to transducer piston, and energy is carried exclusively through a soundwave.
His premise was ultrasonic sound waves.
I wonder...
We could consider wind energy? If we think of sound as pressure waves in the air, then we might consider wind that blows one way for a couple days, then slows down and blows the other way for a period of time, as SUPER low frequency sound. Measured in microHertz or nanoHertz, or...or...
I wonder...
We could consider wind energy? If we think of sound as pressure waves in the air, then we might consider wind that blows one way for a couple days, then slows down and blows the other way for a period of time, as SUPER low frequency sound. Measured in microHertz or nanoHertz, or...or...
Last edited:
Because we like a 10:1 bandwidth and a too-small size. Large narrow-band transducers can do some better.
But I just hit a thought-flaw:
Most practical power systems are "in pipes". Air and water for power run in hoses, pipes, ducts. (I was just tracing a hydropower plant in VietNam by its long intake pipes.) Good shafting leaks little energy. Electricity stays in its wires.
When I have had to "beam" speech I was doing good to hold a 40deg beam from a cone the size of a small person. Translated to ultrasonic it might be a few degrees but hardly better. Go far with a 2deg spread and most of your sent energy misses the catching horn.
Yes, the image of a forklift magically getting power through the air is hilarious. A 20HP engine is more than the acoustic power of a large Rolling Stones concert. Which DOES have health risks, from VD to brain damage to crowd-crush to deafness.