i have two 400w speakers and i need a power mixer for them in a small jam room in buddies basement that goes well over the drums and guitar without bad feedback. how many watts should my powered mixer be around for good quality loud sound?
i have two 400w speakers and i need a power mixer for them in a small jam room in buddies basement that goes well over the drums and guitar without bad feedback. how many watts should my powered mixer be around for good quality loud sound?
i have two 400w speakers and i need a power mixer for them in a small jam room in buddies basement that goes well over the drums and guitar without bad feedback. how many watts should my powered mixer be around for good quality loud sound?
i have two 400w speakers and i need a power mixer for them in a small jam room in buddies basement that goes well over the drums and guitar without bad feedback. how many watts should my powered mixer be around for good quality loud sound?
.5-inch DH-1K titanium HF compression driver
50 Hz – 20 kHz frequency range
90° x 50° coverage-pattern waveguide
60° Monitor Angle
134 dB max SPL
Power handling: 400 W continuous, 1600 W peak
i have two 400w speakers and i need a power mixer for them in a small jam room in buddies basement that goes well over the drums and guitar without bad feedback. how many watts should my powered mixer be around for good quality loud sound?
i have two 400w speakers and i need a power mixer for them in a small jam room in buddies basement that goes well over the drums and guitar without bad feedback. how many watts should my powered mixer be around for good quality loud sound?
i have two 400w speakers and i need a power mixer for them in a small jam room in buddies basement that goes well over the drums and guitar without bad feedback. how many watts should my powered mixer be around for good quality loud sound?
.5-inch DH-1K titanium HF compression driver
50 Hz – 20 kHz frequency range
90° x 50° coverage-pattern waveguide
60° Monitor Angle
134 dB max SPL
Power handling: 400 W continuous, 1600 W peak
There is no powered mixer worth a hill of beans.
You should get a mixer that is rack mount, an active crossover, a compressor limiter, 2 power amps, and a third octave EQ. Put these in a rack with covers...
You will be much happier compared to any powered mixer.
Besides the fact that powered mixers are generally under-powered and poorly cooled. They wind up being repaired a lot or thrown away a lot.
They do not have the EQ, the active crossover, the limiter that you really do need. This would be OK for a church group, but it's not pro sound.
It would be OK without the drum set, for an acoustic guitar gig.
Indecently, the higher in frequency you cross your horns, the more protected they will be against burning out.
This is why we never use a passive crossover. They are always designed at too low a frequency for the horns.
And one more thing, your horns should be crossed at like, 2000 Hz or higher...because they won't last at lower frequencies.
You should always use an active crossover and 31 band EQ, if you really want to get control over the acoustics of a room, no matter how small or large. The compressor limiter will help get the most consistent vocal levels, without tearing up the speakers.
I am telling you this because I repair sound equipment, and I see what goes wrong with it. I see people paying to repair it too.
You should get a mixer that is rack mount, an active crossover, a compressor limiter, 2 power amps, and a third octave EQ. Put these in a rack with covers...
You will be much happier compared to any powered mixer.
Besides the fact that powered mixers are generally under-powered and poorly cooled. They wind up being repaired a lot or thrown away a lot.
They do not have the EQ, the active crossover, the limiter that you really do need. This would be OK for a church group, but it's not pro sound.
It would be OK without the drum set, for an acoustic guitar gig.
Indecently, the higher in frequency you cross your horns, the more protected they will be against burning out.
This is why we never use a passive crossover. They are always designed at too low a frequency for the horns.
And one more thing, your horns should be crossed at like, 2000 Hz or higher...because they won't last at lower frequencies.
You should always use an active crossover and 31 band EQ, if you really want to get control over the acoustics of a room, no matter how small or large. The compressor limiter will help get the most consistent vocal levels, without tearing up the speakers.
I am telling you this because I repair sound equipment, and I see what goes wrong with it. I see people paying to repair it too.
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Just to disagree with the previous poster. Yes, you can almost certainly get a better system than available in an 'all in one' package. Yes, biamping can get a little more power out of a given set of loudspeakers (although not as much as early enthusiasts claim.
Still, my little Spirit powerstation (250 Watts per channel) has been totally reliable for over ten years. Limitations? Eight mic inputs, reverb no better than tolerable, ten band EQ – but everything but speakers, mics and cables in one box, so no complex plugging at the gig, wherever it is, and slides into the boot of an everyday car – oh, sorry, the trunk of a compact automobile. How much power you need is almost entirely dependent on your speakers; in a rehearsal space chances are your limiting factor is going to be feedback, not distortion; and that comes down to room acoustics (which you can attack with multiband EQ, but unless you've got a sharp peak for some reason what this tends to do – and I've done several years of festival monitors – is take the useful voice frequencies out and leave a boom sizzle sound which is not pleasant for musicians,or sound engineers. I have been known to put a Behringer SHARC or two into the inserts of the powerstation, but prefer moving microphones or damping out the room (if it is going to be used regularly with the same set up. Compressing the vocal mic is reducing its gain at high powers; if someone is trying (particularly in a rehearsal situation) to push levels to maximum, when the noise stops the gain comes up and weee! feedback. Doesn't need to be a problem if you've got somebody riding the board all the time, but this isn't always the case.
Obviously, if it's going to double as a keyboard mixer. or amplifying CDs or something where there is no limit to available gain, it's better not to distort (more HF drivers are cooked by distortion harmonics than overdriving). And how much power you need is totally dependent on how loud (electroshock the drummer set by his own volume). But speaker placement is critical, getting coverage for everybody more important than skull-exploding deciBels.
Finally, I've got plenty of passive crossovers at 3kHz, 3k5Hz. They're actually cheaper to manufacture than the lower frequency ones, but are generally reserved for 3 way and more systems as most cone loudspeakers that go acceptably low are getting a bit nasty by then. Active crossovers won't do much to help this situation, nor will multiband EQ. And there are plenty of compression drivers that go down lower than that; they just don't tend to be particularly cheap.
While it would be nice to be able to have a tailor made system for each gig, practical considerations say that sometimes compromise is necessary.
I'm afraid gear lasts long enough with me (apart from those two EV 12", whose surrounds have just decomposed; after a mere thirty years or so. So, where's that 'lifetime guarantee' they promised me? I'm still alive.) that I can't give suggestions for modern, doubtless much lighter units (and I hate SMPS, too; I can't field repair them. But my back approves of them), I can only say your original idea was not as far out of line as the post between would suggest.
Still, my little Spirit powerstation (250 Watts per channel) has been totally reliable for over ten years. Limitations? Eight mic inputs, reverb no better than tolerable, ten band EQ – but everything but speakers, mics and cables in one box, so no complex plugging at the gig, wherever it is, and slides into the boot of an everyday car – oh, sorry, the trunk of a compact automobile. How much power you need is almost entirely dependent on your speakers; in a rehearsal space chances are your limiting factor is going to be feedback, not distortion; and that comes down to room acoustics (which you can attack with multiband EQ, but unless you've got a sharp peak for some reason what this tends to do – and I've done several years of festival monitors – is take the useful voice frequencies out and leave a boom sizzle sound which is not pleasant for musicians,or sound engineers. I have been known to put a Behringer SHARC or two into the inserts of the powerstation, but prefer moving microphones or damping out the room (if it is going to be used regularly with the same set up. Compressing the vocal mic is reducing its gain at high powers; if someone is trying (particularly in a rehearsal situation) to push levels to maximum, when the noise stops the gain comes up and weee! feedback. Doesn't need to be a problem if you've got somebody riding the board all the time, but this isn't always the case.
Obviously, if it's going to double as a keyboard mixer. or amplifying CDs or something where there is no limit to available gain, it's better not to distort (more HF drivers are cooked by distortion harmonics than overdriving). And how much power you need is totally dependent on how loud (electroshock the drummer set by his own volume). But speaker placement is critical, getting coverage for everybody more important than skull-exploding deciBels.
Finally, I've got plenty of passive crossovers at 3kHz, 3k5Hz. They're actually cheaper to manufacture than the lower frequency ones, but are generally reserved for 3 way and more systems as most cone loudspeakers that go acceptably low are getting a bit nasty by then. Active crossovers won't do much to help this situation, nor will multiband EQ. And there are plenty of compression drivers that go down lower than that; they just don't tend to be particularly cheap.
While it would be nice to be able to have a tailor made system for each gig, practical considerations say that sometimes compromise is necessary.
I'm afraid gear lasts long enough with me (apart from those two EV 12", whose surrounds have just decomposed; after a mere thirty years or so. So, where's that 'lifetime guarantee' they promised me? I'm still alive.) that I can't give suggestions for modern, doubtless much lighter units (and I hate SMPS, too; I can't field repair them. But my back approves of them), I can only say your original idea was not as far out of line as the post between would suggest.
Just thought I would mention this, since I have repaired these things for about 40 years.
All in one mixers are perfect for church groups, and coffee shop acoustic guitars.
They are not anything like what you really need for a rock band, with guitar bass and drums. They do not have enough power, first and foremost.
Second the built in equalizer is inadequate, and does not reach the range that a real pro vocalist requires. It's kind of a "pretend" equalizer. It works, but not like a real pro EQ.
Third, thermal management. These things run really hot, and have a short life expectancy, compared to real pro PA gear.
If you buy "anything" made in China, Vietnam, Korea, etc...don't expect schematics or parts support, at least not for very long. The manufacturers of these things rarely support customers more that 2-3 years, and many of them don't support the customers at all.
I had a Mackie all in one, (costs about $1400 new) and the power transformer failed after about 4 years. Mackie had no support for it and no parts.
So, now we have a $1400 paper weight, in otherwise perfect operable condition.
If the customer would have invested in real PA gear, he would be fixed and running right now. But, unfortunately, he spent money on an all in one from China.
If you "must" get an all in one, get Peavey. At least Peavey supports customers, which is far better than I can say for "other" manufacturers.
If you "must" buy speakers, invest in EVM speakers. These are speakers that are designed to last.
Generally I would avoid stock speakers. They don't last, and are expensive to service. The horns blow all the time, and you pay $$$$ for replacements over and over and over again. Lousy investment.
All in one mixers are perfect for church groups, and coffee shop acoustic guitars.
They are not anything like what you really need for a rock band, with guitar bass and drums. They do not have enough power, first and foremost.
Second the built in equalizer is inadequate, and does not reach the range that a real pro vocalist requires. It's kind of a "pretend" equalizer. It works, but not like a real pro EQ.
Third, thermal management. These things run really hot, and have a short life expectancy, compared to real pro PA gear.
If you buy "anything" made in China, Vietnam, Korea, etc...don't expect schematics or parts support, at least not for very long. The manufacturers of these things rarely support customers more that 2-3 years, and many of them don't support the customers at all.
I had a Mackie all in one, (costs about $1400 new) and the power transformer failed after about 4 years. Mackie had no support for it and no parts.
So, now we have a $1400 paper weight, in otherwise perfect operable condition.
If the customer would have invested in real PA gear, he would be fixed and running right now. But, unfortunately, he spent money on an all in one from China.
If you "must" get an all in one, get Peavey. At least Peavey supports customers, which is far better than I can say for "other" manufacturers.
If you "must" buy speakers, invest in EVM speakers. These are speakers that are designed to last.
Generally I would avoid stock speakers. They don't last, and are expensive to service. The horns blow all the time, and you pay $$$$ for replacements over and over and over again. Lousy investment.
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I wasn't suggesting I wouldn't prefer separates, but this guy already owns the loudspeakers, passively crossed over; he's not going to want to rip them apart and biamp them, if he can avoid it (I might, but that's different.) And it's not merely extreme oriental stuff which is not always built quite as tough as we might like; I worked for a while with some Tapco gear (Ancestor of Mackie) (I was working with EV at the time), all built in the states, and not to a 'drive it to rock levels' standard. Many dead power amps (separate, 19" units, not integrated). And I'm not even going to start on the horror stories of British amps at the beginning of the transistor era.
He says "small jam room" which, for me says yes, things are going to lack ventilation and get hot and sweaty. Which doesn't bode well for any heat-generating electronics; theory says class D for the amps is a better risk. But I've seen so many switch mode power supplies fail (and been incapable of repairing them; yes, even if I've been touring and studios for the last thirty-five years+, I started as a tecchie, and used the skills frequently on the road; generally, a traditional power supply I can repair) while my little traditional (and for that reason somewhat heavy, with sharp heatsinks) has gone on, and on. Partly, I suspect, the people who buy the all in one systems often don't know how to use them, being the sort of operators who could never plug up the system you specified if you colour coded all the cables and sockets, and those aren't good for the lifetime of any gear. But in a small jam room, you shouldn't need massive quantities of power, unless the drummer's a – yes, all right, but you'll feedback long before overwhelming someone like that. I'd certainly prefer multiple smaller speakers for this situation, with independent volume controls a definite plus, but powered speakers (see Mackie again; recent gig, two of their powered almost wedges gave up due to insufficient ventilation; stage too small, drummer plastered against the rear wall, curtains carefully drawn to acoustically damp the space, over the drum wedge and the keyboard system, I was FOH where I couldn't see what was happening) seem lower reliability than separates.
The computer philosophy - build it cheaper to do more for half the time – seems to have invaded the stage, where it is not appropriate, as well as the studio, where perhaps it is. Where are the digital consoles which are going to be held up as future references like, say, the analogue Midases? There seems to be an assumption that in three years time something enough better will come along that you'll be happy to throw your old gear, that you'd just about learnt to get the maximum out of, into the trash, and start learning all over again. At a recent gig I not only had a digital console (which actually did everything I needed of it, but I'd have been much more confident with a little analogue) but the power amps were computerised and refused to turn off. I was very happy to know that, in the car outside, there was a little, cheap, simple power mixer that I could drag in and plug up at a moment's notice, and get something – not the optimum something, but not a big yawning silence either – out to the public.
He says "small jam room" which, for me says yes, things are going to lack ventilation and get hot and sweaty. Which doesn't bode well for any heat-generating electronics; theory says class D for the amps is a better risk. But I've seen so many switch mode power supplies fail (and been incapable of repairing them; yes, even if I've been touring and studios for the last thirty-five years+, I started as a tecchie, and used the skills frequently on the road; generally, a traditional power supply I can repair) while my little traditional (and for that reason somewhat heavy, with sharp heatsinks) has gone on, and on. Partly, I suspect, the people who buy the all in one systems often don't know how to use them, being the sort of operators who could never plug up the system you specified if you colour coded all the cables and sockets, and those aren't good for the lifetime of any gear. But in a small jam room, you shouldn't need massive quantities of power, unless the drummer's a – yes, all right, but you'll feedback long before overwhelming someone like that. I'd certainly prefer multiple smaller speakers for this situation, with independent volume controls a definite plus, but powered speakers (see Mackie again; recent gig, two of their powered almost wedges gave up due to insufficient ventilation; stage too small, drummer plastered against the rear wall, curtains carefully drawn to acoustically damp the space, over the drum wedge and the keyboard system, I was FOH where I couldn't see what was happening) seem lower reliability than separates.
The computer philosophy - build it cheaper to do more for half the time – seems to have invaded the stage, where it is not appropriate, as well as the studio, where perhaps it is. Where are the digital consoles which are going to be held up as future references like, say, the analogue Midases? There seems to be an assumption that in three years time something enough better will come along that you'll be happy to throw your old gear, that you'd just about learnt to get the maximum out of, into the trash, and start learning all over again. At a recent gig I not only had a digital console (which actually did everything I needed of it, but I'd have been much more confident with a little analogue) but the power amps were computerised and refused to turn off. I was very happy to know that, in the car outside, there was a little, cheap, simple power mixer that I could drag in and plug up at a moment's notice, and get something – not the optimum something, but not a big yawning silence either – out to the public.
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