Power cord replacement

[kuroguy]

That's alright. Sorry to offend everyone here. Was it just the part about hiring the services of an adult professional to filter out meter related power impurities or was it the entire post that was offensive? I'd like to know so I don't repeat this incident in the future.

Regardless, this thread has sunk into argument and conjecture without any data to backup the claims that $580 for a power cord is worth the expense. Personally, I can think of many better things to do with $580, but many are apparently too racy to discuss here.

By the way, what's bin time?

kuroguy, your post was removed. It doesn't matter how you feel about a subject, you don't post like that here. Next offense, bin time.

 

[Cal Weldon]

was it the entire post that was offensive? I'd like to know so I don't repeat this incident in the future.


By the way, what's bin time?

It was the bit about the meter reader.

Bin time is when your your account is suspended for a preset amount of time to allow you time to think about the indiscretions.

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[cheap-Jack]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Power cord replacement

So you've never tried it yourself, have you?


DBT is a prohibited subject on Audio Asylum. Look up their rule. It's not an ideal place to learn about it for those who are not familiar.

Hi.

I posted many years in Audio Asyum & surely know its rule.
DBT is not allowed to discussed in any other forums except Propeller Head Plaza.

Make a search for DBTs in that foum you will learn more pro & cons about DBTs.

I don't buy the basic philosophy of DBT to start with. Why should I still want to spend time on such tests run against normal human sensing values.

c-J

PS: Likewise, if coffee is not my cup of tea, why should I still waste money on drinking coffee?

 

[ethermion]

By the way, what's bin time?

A small vacation to contemplate yr wallouts. Perhaps that time could be used to constructively puzzle the advantages of coal power versus nuclear. I think coal power sounds more "vintage". Soft and smokey.

I'm with you, and I am sorry I missed your post. But, this thread has become absolutely stupid. The world would be a better place if you just let it die in silence. If somebody is ripping the romex out of his walls to replace it with oxygen free virgins, there is not much you can say here to change that. Better that they drive up the price of the O2 free virgins than Laphroaig.

 

[Panicos K]

Regardless, this thread has sunk into argument and conjecture without any data to backup the claims that $580 for a power cord is worth the expense. Personally, I can think of many better things to do with $580


If a power cord or any other item is worth the expense is better left to the one who spends the money.It is well known that each values things differently.Why you have stucked on $580 I don't know.Just to help you,I guess you are refering to the US retail price of one othe two power cables we have tried.No one said that we bought it.The other cable of the two costs less than half price,it is mine and I got a discount of 40% when I bought it 2 years ago.In fact I paid $162 in case you are interrested.I can help for a group buy if there is an interest🙂

 

[Panicos K]

I'm with you, and I am sorry I missed your post. But, this thread has become absolutely stupid. The world would be a better place if you just let it die in silence. If somebody is ripping the romex out of his walls to replace it with oxygen free virgins, there is not much you can say here to change that. Better that they drive up the price of the O2 free virgins than Laphroaig.

You haven't missed anything important,or based on data to back it up.If you find this thread "stupid"then:1)why do you take part and 2)why don't you enlighten us by saying something smart?
Do you really think it was stupid of me to replace 32meters of crap wire with 4.5meters of 12awg shielded one?With a little effort,even I can back this up with data

 

[kuroguy]

I can help for a group buy if there is an interest🙂

Um, I'm pretty sure that won't be necessary.

 

[Brett]

1.5m of 14ga wire (rated for 32A continuous) has about 12.5 milliohms resistance, 2.5 micro henries of inductance (XL=780 micro ohms) and a couple of hundred picofarads of capacitance (XC = 235 ohms).

Where you get 32A rms ampactiy for AWG#14 power cord?

I ripped it from a US website table which noted rating for 'chassis wiring'. I presumed that would account for derating similar to cable tray as per local AS3008 (my copy is at work).

Yes, a SINGLE copper conductor operating in fREE air, it can handle max 32A rms. But it is derated to 16A at 30C UL. For multi-coductor power cord, 2 or 3-wire power cord, you can safely rate it for 18A, but no more !!

OK, but irrelevant either way for a 5W synchronous motor, pulling a few mA at 50/60Hz.

Don't you know you have answered my question for yrself?
Yes, the power cord is loading the impedance (R++C+L) of the AC mains as well as being loaded by the impedance (R+C+L) of the power transformer of the TT. The idea is this is a pretty complex matching issue as you already mentioned, but detail data is only to illustrate this fact! I don't think I have to bother any data/numbers once the the idea is accepted.

Once the idea is accepted that tiny amounts of RF impinging upon a power cord that (115/230V) that supplies a low power synchronous AC motor at 50/60Hz? If this is your assertion, back it up with some evidence, including measurement or thoroughly worked examples, otherwise your assertions don't mean much. I spent a lot of time measuring at RF, and I don't buy it at all.

Something pretty significanant concerning a wire or a cord when operating without RFI shielding - a receiving/transmitting antenna.
This fact so many don't know. If an electrical/electronic device is not design/built to reduce RFI transmission/reception properly, the most 'popular' place for RFI go to will be the power cord & the interconnects hooked up to that device - given these cables are operating in the RFI polluted environment.

This is one of the reason why intercconects & power cords may sound different due to their interaction with RFI in that area they are operating.

The best place to reduce any RFI is by a well designed filter at the chassis boundary, not shielding the cable as the many meters in the wall etc will not have any attenuation and so the shielding between the wall and device will be bypassed.

Do you know what is an effective way to kill RFI acting on an exposed power cord or interconnects?

PS: I have found with effective RFI installaitons to my power cords alone, the music improves remarkably.

Are you actually measuring the reduction in RFI via the power leads or merely asserting that something you believe you are hearing is because of this? If you have measurements, please post them and the test gear and methodology.

Hi.

Yes, they may be considered as "crappy" for audio use.

Most, if not all, building wires available from many hardware stores in Northern America, e.g. Romax, THW, TFFN etc. are built with recyled copper smelted from scraps of demolished buildings & surpluses.

For very best signal transfer, I only use oxygen-free pure copper wires or even 4N pure silver for all my DIY benchworks. No recycled copper please.

c-J

At a recent visit to the factory of one of Australia's largest cable manufacturers, I asked what the purity of the raw stock from the foundry was. His answer; four nines.

Apart from about 6% difference in resistance silver power cabling adds nothing but a lighter wallet. If you wish to disagree, add something substantial this time, not a rant, but including some factual information as to why; this is not prop head.

 

[rdf]

Re: lmao...

Then in a poroxism of delight, I considered an outside broadcast or recording set-up, faithfully reproducing the delicate nuances of a live production ...

Having worked in broadcast for 25+ years, that's one image I can agree is mental. 😀 Check the specs on an FM exciter/transmitter. The hottest new processor out there (quite a nice box in the right hands actually) employs a 31-band final limiting stage. Notice the word 'final', much precedes it. 'Delicate nuances' are not the domain of FM broadcasting by nature, much less implementation.

 

[ethermion]

You haven't missed anything important,or based on data to back it up.If you find this thread "stupid"then:1)why do you take part and 2)why don't you enlighten us by saying something smart?
Do you really think it was stupid of me to replace 32meters of crap wire with 4.5meters of 12awg shielded one?With a little effort,even I can back this up with data

Peace dude! No issue with you. While I doubt your conclusions, I respect that you actually did something and shared with this group. That is what this list is all about. Good for you and us!

On the down side, you seem to have twitterpated the inmates who should be netted and returned to the asylum. That is not so good. Not your fault, but it is worth noting that when the inmates take control the list turns to poop.

I am a very busy person. I am not an engineer, and I do not have time to sort through too much ... stuff. Post a simple question here, and you are likely to get a quick, thoughtful and useful answer. Go post over at AA. Tell 'em you are blowing fuses, and you will get 100 replies about the DCR of your Romex before it degrades into discussions of your sperm count.

Anyway, peace with you. You did something and posted results. While I have not done any tests myself, I too like serious power cords if for nothing other than aesthetic reasons. I use hubble plugs and Belden 19364. It may not sound better, but it makes me happy. In the end, that is all I want.

 

[Panicos K]

Peace dude! No issue with you. While I doubt your conclusions, I respect that you actually did something and shared with this group. That is what this list is all about. Good for you and us!

On the down side, you seem to have twitterpated the inmates who should be netted and returned to the asylum. That is not so good. Not your fault, but it is worth noting that when the inmates take control the list turns to poop.

I am a very busy person. I am not an engineer, and I do not have time to sort through too much ... stuff. Post a simple question here, and you are likely to get a quick, thoughtful and useful answer. Go post over at AA. Tell 'em you are blowing fuses, and you will get 100 replies about the DCR of your Romex before it degrades into discussions of your sperm count.

Anyway, peace with you. You did something and posted results. While I have not done any tests myself, I too like serious power cords if for nothing other than aesthetic reasons. I use hubble plugs and Belden 19364. It may not sound better, but it makes me happy. In the end, that is all I want.

I am using some Belden too and I like it.Apologies if I was rude,it had mostly to do with the tension of that moment.

 

[anatech]

Hi kuroguy, cheap-Jack,
Okay, I pulled your ignore list posts. They were silly.

Let's try to behave as though we really did pass kindergarten, shall we? You guys should be thankful we pulled those posts, I'd be pretty embarrassed to see my name on posts like that!

-Chris

 

[Panicos K]

Hi kuroguy, cheap-Jack,
Okay, I pulled your ignore list posts. They were silly.

Let's try to behave as though we really did pass kindergarten, shall we? You guys should be thankful we pulled those posts, I'd be pretty embarrassed to see my name on posts like that!

-Chris

For some reason I do not get notification e-mails for this thread. is there any reason for this or a system problem?Thanks

 

[Johan Potgieter]

Cheap-Jack,

I believe I have been one of the more 'respectful-of-others' contributors - should you not agree, no loss to me as that does not alter who I really am - but I hope you agree.

May I then kindly redirect your attention to my particular contribution #177 - you do not seem to have considered that worthy of your attention. (Please pardon if I do not clog up everybody's screens with that again - you should have it.) But your views regarding those arguments are important to me, you having been in the electrical business for some time - so may now I ask that you favour me with a direct response please, not diverging into matters that has already been dealt with on this thread. (And just for the record, I am an EE and have been in this field for a half century .... so, most respectfully, do not embarrass yourself by ordering me to go and read up as you seem fond of doing to others - been there, done that ... most respectfully.)

Thanks

 

[SY]

OT posts removed. Gentlemen, there are some excellent forums on the Internet where the personal shortcomings of one another are valid topics of conversation. This is not one of them. I suggest you take it elsewhere.

Any further stuff in that vein will result in SinBin time-outs.

edit: I see a warning has already been given. Expect SinBin time.

 

[Evenharmonics]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Power cord replacement

I don't buy the basic philosophy of DBT to start with. Why should I still want to spend time on such tests run against normal human sensing values.

c-J

PS: Likewise, if coffee is not my cup of tea, why should I still waste money on drinking coffee?

Without having to trying out DBT yourself, you've made an assumption about it. Then how can you come up with the post quoted below?

Hi.

What more "idiot" can one be by trying to play "smart" on watching from the other side of the fence without actually trying out.

I've tried it out exhaustively before I comment on cables.

c-J

 

[Panicos K]

One thing I can say is that despite the ease I had being at my place and taking my time doing this,there was a worry of what the outcome would be.I am sure that in a more "official"test where others will be expecting the outcome,chances to fail are many.The mind can loose its concentration very easily.One must prepare himself well before doing such a thing,by figuring out a "plan"which he must follow no matter what.The good score I had is not at all indicative of an easy task.In a proper"DBT test I would consider a score of 50% a huge success for anyone.

 

[Evenharmonics]

I am sure that in a more "official"test where others will be expecting the outcome,chances to fail are many.The mind can loose its concentration very easily.One must prepare himself well before doing such a thing,by figuring out a "plan"which he must follow no matter what.The good score I had is not at all indicative of an easy task.In a proper"DBT test I would consider a score of 50% a huge success for anyone.

Panicos, are you by any chance, trying to play "smart" on watching from the other side of the fence without actually trying out?

 

[bayermar]

Hi Panicos,

maybe I am missing something.
In a DBT with two cables you would get 50% success rate by pure chance.
Do be sure there is any audible difference you would need a statistically significant higher success rate (>50%).
Although this is statistically not sound, 50% success rate would rather indicate that there is no difference in sound - just imagination (and therefore guessing).
If I got your experiment right, you have three repeats with six samples (two cables - three times). This is a very small number to do a statistical analysis.
It would still be interesting to see the results (numbers) of each experiment in order to get an idea of the degree of confidence of your results.
Sometimes things look very biased in one direction but statistical analysis reveals normal distribution "by chance".
In "biological" experiments people usually ask for ~95% confidence to call it statistically significant.

My

Cheers,
Martin

 

[Panicos K]

Panicos, are you by any chance, trying to play "smart" on watching from the other side of the fence without actually trying out?

I've been to the other side before🙂 You never know though,maybe one day you might see me next to you.With you guys around I'm not even sure anymore if,when you say "Panikos"you're talking to me🙂