A bit late due to more important health matters,but we have done it.Shall I put my helmet on? 🙂
Ok.Just a few details of what we have done.Each of us has chosen his own music and we have agreed that each of us could have as much time as he wished,maximum 1 LP side.We have also agreed on only 6 swaps of the power cables for each.
Antony's music:Itzak Perlman/Andre Previn-A different kind of blues.Antony is an engineer and tube amplifier designer.With his permision I may upload a picture of his new 120W/ch tube integrated amp.He cares mostly to choose the right cables for his designs,although before starting his small busines he was playing around with some higher end cables.
George's music:Alan Parson's project-The turn of a friendly card.George is an engineer also and he has worked for years at a Tube amplifier manufacturer in UK.
The system we used for test:
Turntable:Thorens TD350/SME M2/Benz LP EBONY
Phono stage:Lukaschek PP1/T9
Amplifier:Leben CS-600 and CS-300
Speakers:Focal Electra 946
Tonearm and phono stage Interconnects:Acrolink 6N A-2400
Speaker cables:Oyaide Tunami Nigo/bi-wiring
The LP I have chosen was Black Sabbath's Born again.
Power cables we tested(on turntable)
1. Acrolink PC4023/14awg
2. Acrolink P4030PC/10awg(Distributor's loan)
Antony's score was 6/6(Prefered Leben CS600/6L6GC)
George's score was 6/6(Prefered CS600/EL34)
Mine was 6/6(CS300/12AX7/EL84)
When discussing what we heard,we agreed that we were able to distinguish the two cables by a slight upper mid forwardness and hardness one of the two cables had.Not bad,better or worse,but it was clearly there.
I was swaping cables for Tony,Tony for George,and George for me.
Both power cables were 3-core(UK plugs here) and unshielded.Mains plugs were the same Toughplugs.
Happy to reply any questions if you want.
Antony's music:Itzak Perlman/Andre Previn-A different kind of blues.Antony is an engineer and tube amplifier designer.With his permision I may upload a picture of his new 120W/ch tube integrated amp.He cares mostly to choose the right cables for his designs,although before starting his small busines he was playing around with some higher end cables.
George's music:Alan Parson's project-The turn of a friendly card.George is an engineer also and he has worked for years at a Tube amplifier manufacturer in UK.
The system we used for test:
Turntable:Thorens TD350/SME M2/Benz LP EBONY
Phono stage:Lukaschek PP1/T9
Amplifier:Leben CS-600 and CS-300
Speakers:Focal Electra 946
Tonearm and phono stage Interconnects:Acrolink 6N A-2400
Speaker cables:Oyaide Tunami Nigo/bi-wiring
The LP I have chosen was Black Sabbath's Born again.
Power cables we tested(on turntable)
1. Acrolink PC4023/14awg
2. Acrolink P4030PC/10awg(Distributor's loan)
Antony's score was 6/6(Prefered Leben CS600/6L6GC)
George's score was 6/6(Prefered CS600/EL34)
Mine was 6/6(CS300/12AX7/EL84)
When discussing what we heard,we agreed that we were able to distinguish the two cables by a slight upper mid forwardness and hardness one of the two cables had.Not bad,better or worse,but it was clearly there.
I was swaping cables for Tony,Tony for George,and George for me.
Both power cables were 3-core(UK plugs here) and unshielded.Mains plugs were the same Toughplugs.
Happy to reply any questions if you want.
The one thing that no one has mentioned is the fact we all hear differently. The reason we hear differently is caused by many factors some caused by the enviorment and some are genetic. The other big cause in sound difference is what I like to call the psycho acoustic factor.
One undeniable fact is we are all built differenty. From the size of our heads to the thickness of our skulls to how well our ears work. If we work in a loud enviorment that damages our hearing then we will hear much differently that some one with undamaged hearing. The person who doesn't work in a enviorment that could damage their hearing may have some kind of genic problem with their ears that they are unaware of. So we never can tell what kind of problems people can have with their hearing.
Then there is the pyscho acoustical effect. If some goes out and spends a large sum of money on any kind if audio product. That product will be the best sounding thing he has purchased in the last couple years. It doesn't matter that the new product actually sounds worse than what he had before. He has talked himself into that it sounds better because he went out and spent a cosiderable sum. Since it was expensive it has to be better is the logic he uses.
There are to many variables to make blanket statement and there are synergies sometimes that are difficult to explain. As tubelab has said there are things we just can't measure and I think that is what makes this hobby fun. Argueing about the differences.
One undeniable fact is we are all built differenty. From the size of our heads to the thickness of our skulls to how well our ears work. If we work in a loud enviorment that damages our hearing then we will hear much differently that some one with undamaged hearing. The person who doesn't work in a enviorment that could damage their hearing may have some kind of genic problem with their ears that they are unaware of. So we never can tell what kind of problems people can have with their hearing.
Then there is the pyscho acoustical effect. If some goes out and spends a large sum of money on any kind if audio product. That product will be the best sounding thing he has purchased in the last couple years. It doesn't matter that the new product actually sounds worse than what he had before. He has talked himself into that it sounds better because he went out and spent a cosiderable sum. Since it was expensive it has to be better is the logic he uses.
There are to many variables to make blanket statement and there are synergies sometimes that are difficult to explain. As tubelab has said there are things we just can't measure and I think that is what makes this hobby fun. Argueing about the differences.
If it is of any interest,
Tubes in CS600: NOS RCA's 6CS7,Reflector 5881,or Shuguang el34's.
In CS300:NOS Mullard M8137,Ei Elites EL84's
Tubes in CS600: NOS RCA's 6CS7,Reflector 5881,or Shuguang el34's.
In CS300:NOS Mullard M8137,Ei Elites EL84's
Panicos, you have not disclosed the details on how the test was conducted during actual event. Can you let us know?
Yes.When I was listening,I was listening to the full LP side.When it was over,George was free to swap or not the cables.I had no visual contact with him and Tony was not in the room.All I knew was that he would use each cable three times.I was just keeping notes of what I was listening.I believe that listening to the full LP side was helpful,because even if the listener losses for a second his concentration to the music,he will have the time to gain it again provided he knows the chosen music well.I have chosen that particular record because I know it very well and use it as a "reference" many times.I believe that in a blind test where a switch was used and in very small time between swichings,the listener cannot have a very high score.We haven't tried it,but this is how I feel.The other two listeners,followed the same proceedure,with one or two exceptions,where they asked for a cable swap before the end of the record side.In my case,lead guitar and Gillan's voice were the points to reveal the differences,and to a lesser extent,the low bass(lots of it on this record)was a bit tighter/dryer with the thick power cable.
What about visual contact with the cables?Panicos K said:
Should you really be knowing that each cable would be used 3 times?
So you are not considering your comparison a blind test?
No visual contact with cables of course.🙂 Yes,it was a blind test,what I meant is that it was not one where switches were used.And yes,I believe that the two cables should be used equal times.This is closer to what someone would do in case he was there to buy one of the two.
Am I reading this right? did you use the power cords on your turntable?
Also, I thought you were going to compare one of these upgraded cables to the stock one. You compared a $350 cord to a $580 dollar power cord.
You changed the rules and stacked them in your favor by comparing a 14 gage cord to a 10 gage cord. How about really doing a comparison and testing that supposedly upgraded 14 gage cord against the stock 14 gage cord, and using the power amp for the test.
The stock cable was in fact tried several times.It would make things much easier for all of us if it was one of the two cables.We would have finished in 30 minutes not 8 hours🙂 Rules?What rules?We have done here something a bit more than empty words.Why don't you do something according to your rules?
Yes,both cables were used on the psu of the turntable.In case you might be wondering,yes,they were tried on the amplifiers too a few days ago with the same differences.I have said though that the test would be done on the turntable's psu,and that's how we tried them.
Yes,both cables were used on the psu of the turntable.In case you might be wondering,yes,they were tried on the amplifiers too a few days ago with the same differences.I have said though that the test would be done on the turntable's psu,and that's how we tried them.
How about comparing a same gage wire homebrew (less than $50 for all parts) power cable to one of those expensive ones. I thought the point was to show that the expensive ones are worth the money. You haven't shown us that a $350 or even $580 power cord is any better or worse than and inexpensive same gage power cord.
Regarding changing the power cord on a turntable, Last I checked, there's no audio components in a turntable that are somehow connected to line power. So you showed us that the motor in your turntable likes fatter wire. Still you haven't shown us that just any old 14 or 10 gage power cord wouldn't perforn as well. I call BS.
Regarding changing the power cord on a turntable, Last I checked, there's no audio components in a turntable that are somehow connected to line power. So you showed us that the motor in your turntable likes fatter wire. Still you haven't shown us that just any old 14 or 10 gage power cord wouldn't perforn as well. I call BS.
I haven't tried to show anything to anyone.There was an argument in one of my posts if power cable can effect the sound of a turntable.The test was for me and friends who decided to try and hear differences or not.As for the standard wire,personally I have no doubt it is effecting the sound of all my equipment in a negative way.It would have been a total waste of time to compare stock power cables with the two we had on test.My turntable and rest of the system do not like thick or thin cables,they simply appreciate better cables and have the ability to show these differences.
Finally,you can call BS whatever you want.No problem.Differences exist even between BS.
Finally,you can call BS whatever you want.No problem.Differences exist even between BS.
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