Panicos K said:
Not only of the audiophile. I have probably known more physicists than engineers and ime nothing givest them more satisfaction than exposing someone's ignorance. At the very pinnacle of contentment is exposing some fellow's physicist's ignorance but such happy days are few and far between - other physicists are too cagey and slippery to be an easy prey.
Your right to left brain is more cooridinated than most. I probably could never write for audiophile mags because I know what lies behind the curtains in Oz. I would have to truly believe the hype and hooks that are put forth as truth (only splitting right from wrong) when knowing that there are only various shades of grey in the analog world. A man has got to have his priorities straight and line cords are not it for me.
infinia said:
I may disagree about coordinations of brains, and about what priorities a man has got to have, also I may assume that people who write that their 1 foot long microphone cord is better because it has only 45 milliohm resistance per foot may wholeheartedly believe that milliohms matter more than other parameters. Also, I believe that people who describe their experience of stereo imagination without usage of technical terms may cordially describe the essence of their experiences.
hopefully not hit and run
That's fine disagree away. Sorry but I probably won't take part tho. I said what's on my mind is all, and don't take it too literal.
Since I already dismissed this subject (line cords as Snake oil ) and to take part in any argument would be futile and hypocritical on my part.
That's fine disagree away. Sorry but I probably won't take part tho. I said what's on my mind is all, and don't take it too literal.
Since I already dismissed this subject (line cords as Snake oil ) and to take part in any argument would be futile and hypocritical on my part.
Re: hopefully not hit and run
Delays, levels, reverberations, binaural effects. But I believe if I use such words in audiophile article it will be the last one.
What about a shielded cord, with very low resistance ground wire and with plugs containing bifilar chokes for phase and null?
However, it would be rather a filter than an ordinary cord...
Panicos K said:
Delays, levels, reverberations, binaural effects. But I believe if I use such words in audiophile article it will be the last one.
infinia said:
What about a shielded cord, with very low resistance ground wire and with plugs containing bifilar chokes for phase and null?
However, it would be rather a filter than an ordinary cord...
Wavebourn, I disagree about the reception to those terms, as long as they convey a comprehensible view of your experience. Why would you think it so?
I disagree with your power cord solution too. 'Useless' threads like this get me thinking about the interrelationships and interactions between equipment. I would go (as a first run) for low impedance, wide bandwidth, unfiltered power cords, all referenced to a single power bar, power series/shunt filtered at the utility outlet to present low source impedance and a stop band below, say, a few hundred hertz, only because I think trying for better on the latter is hopeless without active or ferroresonant power.
I disagree with your power cord solution too.
'Useless' threads like this get me thinking about the interrelationships and interactions between equipment. I would go (as a first run) for low impedance, wide bandwidth, unfiltered power cords, all referenced to a single power bar, power series/shunt filtered at the utility outlet to present low source impedance and a stop band below, say, a few hundred hertz, only because I think trying for better on the latter is hopeless without active or ferroresonant power.
I like common mode filters very much indeed, but they should be mounted as an entry IEC module in a shielded chassis. You know like whats used in standard instruments/ test gear. But a line cord alone (even modified) could never compete with one esp in consumer gear than might not even have a proper grounded chassis.
This is my last post here, good luck to you all.
This is my last post here, good luck to you all.
rdf said:
I disagree with your power cord solution too.
I like it RDF!
Also, I want a silver bar star ground from each outlet with steady water supply to keep the ground always moist.
infinia said:
Jeepers Mate.
As if it is not already cold enough in our part of the hemisphere, you whiff in through the door letting the cold in and the cozyness out - then, instead of honouring us with some alternative suggestions, you are off again.
Firstly, your first sentence could have been uttered by anyone, on any thread, at any time after say about a dozen posts. You may have noticed that the subject of power cords was left behind many days ago - whether that be right or not; neither the original poster nor a moderator complained - and neither did you at the time (I might have missed a post or so).
If you have really left, I suppose we could draw our own conclusions without any further waste of time. Otherwise, if you have something positive to contribute, please don't waste more time. We would like to know - might just benefit from it, wasting less time and energy?
[Not fighting, just warming up - outside it is zero degrees here in Pretoria.
]
(mod hat off)
Johan,
While I share your sentiments, I must confess to asking myself why this thread has the interest it does. The original poster left here with a solution back in March.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1768107#post1768107
It really does surprise me that it continues, sometimes even on the topic of power cords but honestly, isn't there something better to occupy ones time than discussing the merits of a 2 meter piece of wire? Call me narrow minded but when I am tinkering with my system(s), there are so many other things to consider before one gets to the power cord that I am a little bewildered by the length to which these discussions go.
Try and keep warm my friend. A hot drink and a loved one to share a fire is one of my favourite ways to keep the blood from curdling. Besides here in Canada, at zero degrees we're looking through our seed collection to see what we can plant next.
Cheers.
Johan,
While I share your sentiments, I must confess to asking myself why this thread has the interest it does. The original poster left here with a solution back in March.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1768107#post1768107
It really does surprise me that it continues, sometimes even on the topic of power cords but honestly, isn't there something better to occupy ones time than discussing the merits of a 2 meter piece of wire? Call me narrow minded but when I am tinkering with my system(s), there are so many other things to consider before one gets to the power cord that I am a little bewildered by the length to which these discussions go.
Try and keep warm my friend. A hot drink and a loved one to share a fire is one of my favourite ways to keep the blood from curdling. Besides here in Canada, at zero degrees we're looking through our seed collection to see what we can plant next.
Cheers.
At the risk of distracting everyone's philosophical engineers vs leyliners argument (there, I've nailed my colours to the mast), has anyone considered the benefits of a screened mains cable? I would suggest that a twisted pair pair cable with a double braided screen used as the earth wire ought to give a very real benefit when you consider the mass of spaghetti that normally infests the rear of audio kit. The reduction of interference from the mains cable into signal cables should be well worth having, and a nice low earth resistance wouldn't hurt either.
Perhaps a better solution is to have good power input filtering, an interwinding screen, and a decent power transformer geometry (e.g., R-core). John Curl made a point several times that toroidal power transformers are anathema, and that makes perfect sense to me- thus my statement much earlier that if I actually heard a difference changing power cords, I'd be annoyed that I screwed up the basic amp design.
I couldn't help but notice that you use a pretty standard IEC power cord...
I couldn't help but notice that you use a pretty standard IEC power cord...
electrical machines are often wired with shielded mains cables. It is required because variable frequency drives produce a lot of RF garbage.EC8010 said:
I have tried those cables on my stereo ten years ago and didn't heard any difference.
Now, my place then and this now, didn't suffer from RF pollution, I may be stone deaf and my equipment is mediocre at best...
Last comment: those cables have of course a dedicated PE wire and I doubt that the screen is intended or certified as PE, although it is braided together out of lots of copper.
regards
MY!
Whaddaya know - back to topic!
But seriously: Juergen,
Yes, where the interference is generated in the concerned apparatus (and I would add, where such a lead is long enough to cause radiation).
And per our discussion, where the mains lead again is long enough and external disturbing stuff is a danger by their presence. But according to my (domestic) experience, normally neither conditions exist. If then folks embark on the wondrous 'filtering action' of such a cable, the matter starts beating snake-oil. (A screened cable never acts as a filter of any sort in this regard. It can simply only act to 'screen out' external stuff or keep its own rubbish in. It is in this regard that the '3m in series with the line'-kind of argument begins to apply.)
@ SY:
'Very correct' - mains filtering at the device input/mains socket can help, as can a screen in a mains transformer (partly).
@EC8010
Agree ... but any properly screened lead (interconnect) can be placed close to a mains lead without picking up the mains. In the days of tube amplifiers this was often done. In the Quad II the pre-amp had a high output impedance (order 20K) but its connect was run with the mains in the same sleeve, and nothing was picked up. The mains twin was also screened, however.
@ Cal,
Well, that is why one is grateful for all the other threads on this here forum!
But sure; perhaps one is trying to stem some of this kind of thing (definiton: where something is experienced subjectively and the nearest technical explanation is dragged in before any examination of alternatives). That to hopefully help others, as oneself had been helped on similar occasions early in one's training.
And though the mod hat was off, it was hung up where I could still notice it! Thanks - respect to Infinia as person, if not quite for his behaviour.
Whaddaya know - back to topic!
But seriously: Juergen,
Yes, where the interference is generated in the concerned apparatus (and I would add, where such a lead is long enough to cause radiation).
And per our discussion, where the mains lead again is long enough and external disturbing stuff is a danger by their presence. But according to my (domestic) experience, normally neither conditions exist. If then folks embark on the wondrous 'filtering action' of such a cable, the matter starts beating snake-oil. (A screened cable never acts as a filter of any sort in this regard. It can simply only act to 'screen out' external stuff or keep its own rubbish in. It is in this regard that the '3m in series with the line'-kind of argument begins to apply.)
@ SY:
'Very correct' - mains filtering at the device input/mains socket can help, as can a screen in a mains transformer (partly).
@EC8010
Agree ... but any properly screened lead (interconnect) can be placed close to a mains lead without picking up the mains. In the days of tube amplifiers this was often done. In the Quad II the pre-amp had a high output impedance (order 20K) but its connect was run with the mains in the same sleeve, and nothing was picked up. The mains twin was also screened, however.
@ Cal,
Well, that is why one is grateful for all the other threads on this here forum!
But sure; perhaps one is trying to stem some of this kind of thing (definiton: where something is experienced subjectively and the nearest technical explanation is dragged in before any examination of alternatives). That to hopefully help others, as oneself had been helped on similar occasions early in one's training.
And though the mod hat was off, it was hung up where I could still notice it! Thanks - respect to Infinia as person, if not quite for his behaviour.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.