DrG said:
I'm ready now, come over. Or, if you prefer, I'll come over to your place, providing you cover expenses. I was always curious about South Africa.
Hi,
Marvelous country with lots of springbok. (Nickname for SA inhabitants).
Cheers,😉
P.S. Your dry humour is causing me cramps in the jaws from laughing.😎
Marvelous country with lots of springbok. (Nickname for SA inhabitants).
Cheers,😉
P.S. Your dry humour is causing me cramps in the jaws from laughing.😎
john curl said:
But question is - where do we stop ? Some of us don't have unlimited reserves of colored plastic (green paper in your country), not have the patience or will to experiment ad nauseum.
I want to hear performance and music, not disect the hair splitting differences at and often far beyond the limits of human hearing.
Therefore, I apply a healthy dose of skepticism first. If there's no sound explanation why such and such mod should work, I become even more skeptical. Clarifier ? I've read reviews of it that make me not laugh - they make me sick.
"The title track ... came alive when Clarified, almost as if the volume had been turned up, with each instrument seemingly now owning its own spot in the soundstage and voice more upfront".
How much more cliche' can someone put in one sentence ?
I could have beleived it (but no promise 🙂 ) if the effect was described as subtle (how could an application of a variable magnetic field onto something that is NOT ferromagnetic could have any significant influence?), but for the difference to be so major it could only happen in reviewer's head. Plus, people have actually tested the Clarifier by reading out and comparing the CD in digital domain before and after, and you know what ? There was NO difference whatsoever. In analog domain there could be things that we don't fully understand, but in digital there's only ones and zeroes, nothing else. If a stream of data coming off the laser pickup is the same, there's not going to be any difference to be talked about, let alone bragged about, to be heard further down the audio chain. Unless imagined, in which case I'll rather spend 200 bucks on a bottle (or couple) of a good scotch, that will help me enjoy my music MUCH more.
Mpingo blocks ? "Magic" C37 lacquer ? Writing strange characters in reverse onto your bedroom mirror ? Surely there's a fine line where audio croses into the outright lunacy.
Bratislav said:
Not according to Bedini's patent. In his patent he clearly shows that spinning a CD in a relatively weak magnetic field not only results in the data on the disc changing (i.e. data compression), but its physical location changes as well.
Wanna know how he proved it? This is hilarious.
He took a Kodak PhotoCD and copied an image off it onto his computer's hard drive. Then he spun the CD in the magnetic field and copied the same image into a different directory on his hard drive.
Then he pulls each image into PhotoShop and saves them out as PostScript files.
Then he takes a text editor and counts the number of lines of text in each of the PostScript files and finds that there are fewer lines of text in the file for the "clarified" disc.
Then he uses a comparison utility to compare the differences of the two files and comes up with a number of differences.
I repeated this test and came up with the same results. Except I didn't use any "clarifier." I just copied the same file off the CD into two different directories and repeated what he did. I also did the same to some other graphic images that were already on my hard drive.
Seems that when PhotoShop saves out a PostScript file, the algorithm causes the files to be different.
There is no line. At least not as far as any broad concensus goes. There is literally nothing too absurd. No matter what you dream up, some number of individuals will try it and report it having remarkable effects.
Just look at Peter Belt and placing photographs of yourself and your equipment in your freezer to make your system sound better.
To hear some talk, you'd think there have NEVER been any frauds or charlatans in this business. To some, reality is like some Michael Jackson fantasy land. Nothing is too absurd. Even charlatans like Jack Bybee can get people like John Curl to staunchly defend him.
se
Hi,
Of course...Any computor savvy person could tell you that straight away, different algo different file.
If that's proof then anything is.
C37 is another matter, that's bound to change resonant frequency of the material it's applied to. For better or for worse, change it will.
Cheers,😉
Of course...Any computor savvy person could tell you that straight away, different algo different file.
If that's proof then anything is.
C37 is another matter, that's bound to change resonant frequency of the material it's applied to. For better or for worse, change it will.
Cheers,😉
"C37 is another matter, that's bound to change resonant frequency of the material it's applied to. For better or for worse, change it will."
Placing Mpingos on top of speaker cabinets or equipment will change resonances also.
Curious thing though about Mpingos is their directional dependency.
Eric.
Placing Mpingos on top of speaker cabinets or equipment will change resonances also.
Curious thing though about Mpingos is their directional dependency.
Eric.
Hi,
Interesting.
I don't tend to talk about what I don't know or am familiar with so what's the theory, or what do you think is at work here?
Either way, placing anything on top of anyhing is going to change the resonant behaviour of it unless the two have the same resonant frequency.
Whether this is audible or not I don't know...
Place a few Ks of lead on top of speakers I do hear just as I hear the effect of spikes and stands but Mpingoes?
Cheers, 😉
Interesting.
I don't tend to talk about what I don't know or am familiar with so what's the theory, or what do you think is at work here?
Either way, placing anything on top of anyhing is going to change the resonant behaviour of it unless the two have the same resonant frequency.
Whether this is audible or not I don't know...
Place a few Ks of lead on top of speakers I do hear just as I hear the effect of spikes and stands but Mpingoes?
Cheers, 😉
fdegrove said:
No, I'm talking about the same algorithm.
I.e. load up a graphic image in PhotoShop. Save it as a PostScript file. Then save it again as a PostScript file with the exact same name but in a different directory. Then look at the file sizes of the two files. Then do a file compare of the two files.
Even though both image files were identical, and even though they were both saved using the same program and in the same format (i.e. PostScript), using the same algorithm, the two PostScript files will have slightly different file sizes and the data of the files will be slightly different.
Strange but true. I tried it myself.
Of course this oddity has absolutely NOTHING to do with having spun a CD in a magnetic field.
I think that's the new motto of the US Patent Office. 🙂
Certainly. That holds for ANY lacquer. Just that Ennmoser's explanations as to WHY and HOW it does what what it does is just as wacky as Bedini's and Bybee's.
Bedinis and Bybees and Ennmosers, oh my! 😀
se
Hi Frank,
Yes, just placing anything on top the speaker cabinets will change the sound of the cabinets IME.
The Mpingo discs look to be simple wooden discs (hard and dark coloured wood).
Placing one on top of each speaker will change the sound character, and rotating them will further change sonic character.
Placing one on top for example the cdp will also change system sonic character, and rotating it will further change sonic character.
It seems that they have some kind of magnetic directional characteristic, and rotating them causes changes a bit like when fine tuning an AM radio.
The overall sonic effect is subtle, and the directional effect more subtle.
In my experience with Mpingos, I say that they are clearly audible, and I further say that I am not all that keen on the sound character/colouration that they impart - I have heard much nicer sounds (to my ear) by different methods.
Unfortunately these devices are described in floury and mystical terms, (many other products including the QP's are guilty of this also) but this does not deny that they have a clearly discernable sonic effect.
Cheers, Eric.
Yes, just placing anything on top the speaker cabinets will change the sound of the cabinets IME.
The Mpingo discs look to be simple wooden discs (hard and dark coloured wood).
Placing one on top of each speaker will change the sound character, and rotating them will further change sonic character.
Placing one on top for example the cdp will also change system sonic character, and rotating it will further change sonic character.
It seems that they have some kind of magnetic directional characteristic, and rotating them causes changes a bit like when fine tuning an AM radio.
The overall sonic effect is subtle, and the directional effect more subtle.
In my experience with Mpingos, I say that they are clearly audible, and I further say that I am not all that keen on the sound character/colouration that they impart - I have heard much nicer sounds (to my ear) by different methods.
Unfortunately these devices are described in floury and mystical terms, (many other products including the QP's are guilty of this also) but this does not deny that they have a clearly discernable sonic effect.
Cheers, Eric.
Hi,
Now, that's spooky...Almost viruslike behaviour.
Sure must be a quirk in our beloved Photoshop?
I'd certainly hope so or all hell breaks lose.
Yeah...If they keep it up we could have ourselves a couple of patents no sweat, no time.
My point exactly although I'd give an extra string to Dieter just because I love the violin...
Imagine anyone applying C37 to piano chords?
Eh,eh...Steinway, here we come...
Cheers,😉
Now, that's spooky...Almost viruslike behaviour.
Sure must be a quirk in our beloved Photoshop?
I'd certainly hope so or all hell breaks lose.
Yeah...If they keep it up we could have ourselves a couple of patents no sweat, no time.
My point exactly although I'd give an extra string to Dieter just because I love the violin...
Imagine anyone applying C37 to piano chords?
Eh,eh...Steinway, here we come...
Cheers,😉
mrfeedback said:
Except when I was present during the "demonstration" Shun Mook used speakers with no cabinets (Apogees) so he placed blocks randomly around the room.
He was still insisting sound was much better, and we skeptics laughing in the corner were plain deaf.
And I suppose you would agree.
Geez. World is really funny place.
PS my only experience with exotic wood changing the sound of my system was when Ironwood hippo I bought on the market close to Victoria/Zambezi falls fell of the shelf and hit the CD player which promply skipped. Was the sound improved ? Hmmm.... What was it again, "instrument separation took on the new heights, the wires on Gilels' piano clearly added an inch and a qurter of space in between as did the keyboard, and of course Emil's fingers promply grew, otherwiese he wouldn't be able to play it"
Hoi Eric,
Depending on speaker and cabinet, maybe.
Surely, wooden blocks can't do that and as a tech you should know that.
Lots of things make "a difference" as you say.
Whether that difference is worthwile is often decided by the marketing department and that said difference, more often than not is shown up only at the account's balance end won't you say?
Ping ping is as a joke about money (Chinese based) in my native tongue, mpingo just sounds like a go ahead to collect the ping in a scam.
I could be wrong but if it walks like a duck...well, you know what I mean.
Cheers,😉
Depending on speaker and cabinet, maybe.
Surely, wooden blocks can't do that and as a tech you should know that.
Lots of things make "a difference" as you say.
Whether that difference is worthwile is often decided by the marketing department and that said difference, more often than not is shown up only at the account's balance end won't you say?
Ping ping is as a joke about money (Chinese based) in my native tongue, mpingo just sounds like a go ahead to collect the ping in a scam.
I could be wrong but if it walks like a duck...well, you know what I mean.
Cheers,😉
I heard with Pass Aleph 0 amplifiers and speakers with Accuton and Cabasse drivers.
All in the room on several occaisions heard the effects.
Eric.
All in the room on several occaisions heard the effects.
Eric.
john curl said:
John, you had the proof in your example that higher doses of vitamins worked: it reduced the number of doctor's visits.
All we asked for is something like that that can substantiate the claim that somepeople heard a difference in power cords.
On first glance yes, a piece of wood should have no magnetic or directional effect.fdegrove said:
On closer examination it it is likely that traces of magnetic elements (iron etc) will be included in the composition of the wood, and that there may be a magnetic alignment that is locked in.
The Mpingo makers state that the wood is treated by some special process that is not revealled, and this may be part of the magnetic properties - dunno.
Sonic effect - yes.
Benefit - according to taste (and experience).
Value - debatable, according to taste.
Eric.
Hi,
Just curious here, could you justify the outlay to yourself or your company (business) ?
And if so, how?
What, in your opinion, does this do that nothing of similar composition could hypothetically do?
No offense, just curious and not demanding any proof either....
Cheers,😉
Just curious here, could you justify the outlay to yourself or your company (business) ?
And if so, how?
What, in your opinion, does this do that nothing of similar composition could hypothetically do?
No offense, just curious and not demanding any proof either....
Cheers,😉
I don't like the sound of Mpingos so I would not buy them - simple as that.fdegrove said:Hi,
Just curious here, could you justify the outlay to yourself or your company (business) ?
And if so, how?
What, in your opinion, does this do that nothing of similar composition could hypothetically do?
No offense, just curious and not demanding any proof either....
Cheers,😉
I have a method that to my ear (and everybody else - also even showing up in absolute blind testing) is much better (perfectly clean) sounding, has a far greater magnitude of effect, and is totally non directional - IME directionality is a BIG PITA.
I think I understand the mechanism of the Mpingos, and sorry for them IMO they are a poor effort compared to what is (repeatedly)achievable by both similar and other means.
Any product that I release will not be cloaked in marketing department **** and bull, but rather explain in real and understandable terms, and not make BS claims.
Verbal reviews of my proto-products all say the same things, and without prior suggestion of the sonic changes to note for from me.
I also have written reviews.
Eric.
Hi,
What does that prove?
The only thing that could possibly prove is that oversized vitamin doses have helped JC to keep fit.
If I may say so, the man could have saved himself alot of money by sticking to fruits, veggies, nuts and what have you.
All of which are more easily absorbed by the human body and in higher percentage rates (percentagewise) than anything looking like a pill or tablet.
Not to mention the more complex natural states of minerals, vitamins, spores and whatever there is in natural supplements.
Things aren't as black and white as they seem, medical follow up should be based on the individual, not the medically average.
Cheers,😉
What does that prove?
The only thing that could possibly prove is that oversized vitamin doses have helped JC to keep fit.
If I may say so, the man could have saved himself alot of money by sticking to fruits, veggies, nuts and what have you.
All of which are more easily absorbed by the human body and in higher percentage rates (percentagewise) than anything looking like a pill or tablet.
Not to mention the more complex natural states of minerals, vitamins, spores and whatever there is in natural supplements.
Things aren't as black and white as they seem, medical follow up should be based on the individual, not the medically average.
Cheers,😉
mrfeedback said:
Ah, yes. the ol' special secret process bit.
M'Pingo disks: "Hey, this is just a piece of wood!" "No, it's been treated by a special secret process."
Tice clock: "Hey, this is just a Radio Shack alarm clock!" "No, it's been treated by a special secret process."
Brilliant Pebbles: "Hey, this is just a bottle of rocks!" "No, it's been treated by a special secret process."
There are more. Let's see if y'all can come up with some of the others.
se
fdegrove said:
Thing is, even placebos have an efficacy rate. Sometimes even greater than the medications they're being used to test.
se
- Status
- Not open for further replies.