Peter Daniel said:
But there is no proof that we are not silly, 🙂
Indeed, a case can be made that some of us are quite silly some of the times.
Peter Daniel said:
then don't be upset if you are asked to back up your claims, and ask others to leave and resort to name calling and middle fingers.
Is it not amazing how even the most stiff-upper-lip denizens of this audio cyber-realm can descend to relative barbarism when faced by unrealizable requests for science and the undeniably capricious inadequacies of all of our sensory apparatus and higher interpretive centers? Which is to say that faced with a cliff-edge issue, some members resort to calling others "morons" and even those of a higher argumentative evolutionary level may reply "This forum is for everybody, don't forget about it...maybe you should start looking for another forum?"
Now the "silly" example I cited for your benefit obviously head-butts your sensibilities but I assure you that things of this nature are possible. Colour for example. People are known to prefer well-presented, colourful food. An iffy dish that looks inviting may often be preferred over a better-tasting meal dished up slap-dash. Get used to your humanity, Peter.
Come on Peter, you claim "we are not silly" but I say these claims sound silly. Silly, improbable and irrational to the extent of requiring statistical or experimental proof to be taken seriously. And if the burden of proof is too heavy for you...
And BTW, I'm not excited. You, on the other hand, sound positively livid in your own uniquely restrained, almost subliminal Peter Daniels kinda way...
Now the "silly" example I cited for your benefit obviously head-butts your sensibilities but I assure you that things of this nature are possible. Colour for example. People are known to prefer well-presented, colourful food. An iffy dish that looks inviting may often be preferred over a better-tasting meal dished up slap-dash. Get used to your humanity, Peter.
Now silly is a relative concept as you have illustrated so beautifully for us. My example is based on analagous, established and documented idiosyncracies of the sensory system. What are your claims based on, if not those same senses? Are your own senses somehow exempt from the limitations that plague us all? Is your faith in them so blind as to ignore the real possibility that they may be tricking you? Does this possibility sit so foul of your ego as to be impalatable compared with the sonic influence of 2' of conductor?
Come on Peter, you claim "we are not silly" but I say these claims sound silly. Silly, improbable and irrational to the extent of requiring statistical or experimental proof to be taken seriously. And if the burden of proof is too heavy for you...
... then kindly refrain from selling your own possible sensory shortcomings and auditory errata as gospel for the faithful.
And BTW, I'm not excited. You, on the other hand, sound positively livid in your own uniquely restrained, almost subliminal Peter Daniels kinda way...
DrG said:
Sorry to break your bubble DrG, but I have every right to express my personal observations (as I just confirmed it with SE, whom I regard as a mentor on those complicated issues😉). You have the right to comment on them, but that's about all that there is to it. From the increase of picturesque flavour in your most recent posts, I can see you are getting excited.
Eloquence does not flow from excitement, Peter. At least not mine. And if you read a little more carefuly you will note that I have no problem with anyone airing any opinion and I most certainly do not wish you to cease airing your own. Heaven forbid...
What I said was that you should not offer these claims as statement of fact when they are by your own admission, wholly unsubstantiated.
Do you see the difference?
What I said was that you should not offer these claims as statement of fact when they are by your own admission, wholly unsubstantiated.
Do you see the difference?
Peter Daniel said:
How can you say it's a claim or personal observation? It was surely meant as a personal observation, but if you perceive it as a claim, would you mind showing me how my post should be modified to clearly reflect that it is a personal observation indeed?
You must be living in the matrix. Let me bring you back to the real world. In the world of AUDIO, observations are what we hear, not what we see. If the way a power cord LOOKS makes you hear things, then I have no argument with you as you are beyond logic and reasoning. Let me put it this way, if you can't "hear" the difference with a blindfold on, there is no difference.
I can see no connection between what you quote and what you write.
I also know that you have no idea what the real world of AUDIO is.
Go back to your studies sonny and come back when you _know_ better.
I also know that you have no idea what the real world of AUDIO is.
Go back to your studies sonny and come back when you _know_ better.
Hi,
I hate listening with a blindfold on as I also happen to listen with my eyes.
Not that I stare at my powercords, mind you.
Having a hard time finding actual claims here...
Since when is relating an experience making a claim?
Regardless of what you read into it, what makes you think you have the right to demand proof of anything anyway?
Is this written in the forum rules somewhere?
I didn't think so.
Cheers,😉
I hate listening with a blindfold on as I also happen to listen with my eyes.
Not that I stare at my powercords, mind you.
Having a hard time finding actual claims here...
Since when is relating an experience making a claim?
Regardless of what you read into it, what makes you think you have the right to demand proof of anything anyway?
Is this written in the forum rules somewhere?
I didn't think so.
Cheers,😉
Re: Solid Snake
And it will always be like that, so don't waste our time.
Upupa Epops said:It is neverending story - wizards have his own true.
And it will always be like that, so don't waste our time.
Peter Daniel said:
pretty big and unsubstantiated statements, Mr. Daniel.
fdegrove said:
what makes you think that others don't have the right to demand proof of anything?
Hi,
Freedom of speech comes to mind....
Demand anything you like, you don't have a RIGHT to an answer.
So, if I say go find out for yourself or don't respond at all, that's my RIGHT to do so, won't you think?
Ultimately it's up to the individual to decide wheter he or she wants to provide proof, won't you say?
Seems fair enough to me and either way, beggars can't be chosers.
Cheers,😉
Freedom of speech comes to mind....
Demand anything you like, you don't have a RIGHT to an answer.
So, if I say go find out for yourself or don't respond at all, that's my RIGHT to do so, won't you think?
Ultimately it's up to the individual to decide wheter he or she wants to provide proof, won't you say?
Seems fair enough to me and either way, beggars can't be chosers.
Cheers,😉
fdegrove said:
Do some research on what "freedom of speech" means and then come back for a discussion.
fdegrove said:
is there any chance the two sentences come from the same person? 🙂
On one hand, you state we can demand anything we like, on the other hand, you told that we don't have the right to demand proof (which is one of "anything' I guess).
fdegrove said:
Yes, but IMHO making an outright assertion and then just saying, "you have to find out for yourself" just carries zero credibility. I would say that some reasoned explanation or proof is warranted, if only as a courtesy, lest this degenerate into a competition of irreproducible tests. Like, "An audio system sounds clearer and more detailed when you lay a row of five ears of Manitoba sweet corn on top of the amplifier." "Why in the world would that be?" "What?? If you won't take the time to try it yourself, don't bother questioning me!!"
Expressing one's observation, though, is not an assertion, and has some inherent doubt or skepticism. In that case, I would say that nothing further is asserted, so nothing further needs explaining.
Hi,
What I said is that you don't necessarilly have to expect an answer or that your entitled to it.
In general, I don't mind sharing at all...when people are trying to extract answers I ususally only smell rats.
So, in short, I don't feel I HAVE TO oblige to any demand, do you?
Cheers,😉
What I said is that you don't necessarilly have to expect an answer or that your entitled to it.
In general, I don't mind sharing at all...when people are trying to extract answers I ususally only smell rats.
So, in short, I don't feel I HAVE TO oblige to any demand, do you?
Cheers,😉
fdegrove said:
this is what you said:
It sounds like there is a difference between what you think you said and what you said. Not unusual, if you ask me.
Going back to you newest question, what makes you think we necessarily expected an answer?
millwood said:
You don't (nor I for that matter) have the right to say or demand anything here. That right is reserved for the owners of this system.
se
It's not about demanding proof to justify a claim per se. It's about requesting proof to be taken seriously. A lot like the ridiculous Bedini CD magnetiser patent you mentioned Steve...
In other words, off-beat assertions without proof cast shadows of doubt over the credibility of the claimant. This is unavoidable. If you wish to be taken seriously then you should explain why and supply proof if requested. As a common courtesy, if for no other reason. Or simply say there is none and admit that your observations may therefore be flawed. If you do not then you are merely another noise-source...
Sorry guys, that's how it is whether you like it or not.
In other words, off-beat assertions without proof cast shadows of doubt over the credibility of the claimant. This is unavoidable. If you wish to be taken seriously then you should explain why and supply proof if requested. As a common courtesy, if for no other reason. Or simply say there is none and admit that your observations may therefore be flawed. If you do not then you are merely another noise-source...
Sorry guys, that's how it is whether you like it or not.
I've been asking you to prove it for 30 thread pages. Please let us all have it as soon as you are ready.
This isn't how it is or has to be, folks. IF one must insist on proof of anything that works, in your experience, of how it works, you will lose years, if not decades of potential improvement in your life situation.
I'll give a personal example. About 1/3 of a century ago, I started taking multiple vitamins, in doses stronger than the 'minimum dose' recommended by doctors. Soon, I was not getting as many medical symptoms that sometimes brought me to be seen by a doctor. To me, this was progress, and I was not going to ignore it. Today, stronger multivitamins are recommended by many authorities, than were recommended 1/3 of a century ago.
I have personally seen the Bedini 'clarifier' used in an A-B test. I heard the difference, myself. I was surprised, but I don't doubt what I heard. Could I be confused (as usual) in an ABX test with the same Bedini device? Of course, it happens all the time.
It has been my experience to try things, and if you can hear a difference, then that is provisionally adequate to consider including this new component, or adjustment, in order to make the best sounding audio system. This is what makes winning audio systems, rather than also-rans, that sound OK, perhaps, but so does so much mid-fi.
I'll give a personal example. About 1/3 of a century ago, I started taking multiple vitamins, in doses stronger than the 'minimum dose' recommended by doctors. Soon, I was not getting as many medical symptoms that sometimes brought me to be seen by a doctor. To me, this was progress, and I was not going to ignore it. Today, stronger multivitamins are recommended by many authorities, than were recommended 1/3 of a century ago.
I have personally seen the Bedini 'clarifier' used in an A-B test. I heard the difference, myself. I was surprised, but I don't doubt what I heard. Could I be confused (as usual) in an ABX test with the same Bedini device? Of course, it happens all the time.
It has been my experience to try things, and if you can hear a difference, then that is provisionally adequate to consider including this new component, or adjustment, in order to make the best sounding audio system. This is what makes winning audio systems, rather than also-rans, that sound OK, perhaps, but so does so much mid-fi.
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