Some amplifiers seem to have tremendous 'grip' on the loudspeakers. The bass sounds very 'tight' or whatever term one chooses to use. While low output impedance probably does help here, below a point it doesn't matter much as the speaker cable resistance dominates the scene.
I was wondering if certain circuit topologies enhance such behaviour ?
Which power amps clearly exhibit their ability to have very good control over the loudspeakers ? I'm sure the very large ones like Krell etc. fit the bill , but how about those that are in the 30 to 150 watt power range ? Is very high current capability a basic requirement for such performance ?
I was wondering if certain circuit topologies enhance such behaviour ?
Which power amps clearly exhibit their ability to have very good control over the loudspeakers ? I'm sure the very large ones like Krell etc. fit the bill , but how about those that are in the 30 to 150 watt power range ? Is very high current capability a basic requirement for such performance ?
It means paralleled output devices and big trafos. I like big transformer and paralleled output even for low power amp (some 5-10W chip amps are capable of delivering above 3A peak current). EF is also better than CF. Push-pull over single-ended. Current feedback.
Right Jay on all counts. I wondered how many did think that current feedback mattered also . I think so too. My conclusions are just based on some observations and I haven't researched it !
And of course as Roender points out the supply capability is always required no matter what the circuit is. But is too much supply capacitance also a bad thing ?
And yes current paths make a huge difference.
However can someone come up with some models/names ? I think the Leak Delta 70 did very well in the LF department ( played through Wharfedale Dovedale 3's).
And of course as Roender points out the supply capability is always required no matter what the circuit is. But is too much supply capacitance also a bad thing ?
And yes current paths make a huge difference.
However can someone come up with some models/names ? I think the Leak Delta 70 did very well in the LF department ( played through Wharfedale Dovedale 3's).
Hi Jay Not always is outright high current required, and I refer to Quad 303/ Quad ESL57, which more of a purpose design synergy of amp to speaker, where the 303 has very good control of the 57. The 303 is not brute current capable
Other noteworthys are the NAD 3020 as an example of a small amp.
and marantz 1060. Naim also put effort into the amp speaker relationship.. where they provided a speaker cable that matched their amplifiers.
So although current capability is a obvious solution, its not the only one, particularly when the speaker characteristic and measurements are known to make the amp part of the bigger picture.
Cheers / Chris
Other noteworthys are the NAD 3020 as an example of a small amp.
and marantz 1060. Naim also put effort into the amp speaker relationship.. where they provided a speaker cable that matched their amplifiers.
So although current capability is a obvious solution, its not the only one, particularly when the speaker characteristic and measurements are known to make the amp part of the bigger picture.
Cheers / Chris
Try a pair of Levinson ML-2's driving Quad ELS 57's. Everyone talkes about Quad's not having deep base has never heard them driven with the right amps. The down side is about 900 watts in for 50 wats out per pair.
Oversimplified. That much I have learned. Are you talking about a single amp powering a multi-way system? A powered sub? What you may think is tight base is cleaner lower mids.
My 50W Rotel with a measured DF of 40 sounded cleaner on my Peerless XXL subs than several 200W amps with higher DF. On the other side, my HCA 1200 was hugely cleaner.
asmith,
Good amps help Quads, but I have heard then on ML's. Real bass, but not like I get from my Peerless 12's. Not even close. Remember back when ML actually sold quads? 2 in a stand painted black.
My 50W Rotel with a measured DF of 40 sounded cleaner on my Peerless XXL subs than several 200W amps with higher DF. On the other side, my HCA 1200 was hugely cleaner.
asmith,
Good amps help Quads, but I have heard then on ML's. Real bass, but not like I get from my Peerless 12's. Not even close. Remember back when ML actually sold quads? 2 in a stand painted black.
Just avoid what I refer to as Oriental "Twing Twang" amps. Most British amps have a good control over the speakers. I've got a Pass Aleph 4 which is an American design that also controls the speakers well.
Rotels are excellent, earlier Technics (which are becoming rare) and of course any of the audiophiller amps are also very good. Best thing is to borrow an example of each one and see what you like. The early Denon PMA7XX series were also very good and can be bought at a good price.
Lately the Oriental manufacturers have been bowing down to cheaper mass produced Class A/B designs which are not as good.
IMHO Class A is the way to go.
B&W, the highly reputable British speaker company use Rotel amps, or at least they used to.
Rotels are excellent, earlier Technics (which are becoming rare) and of course any of the audiophiller amps are also very good. Best thing is to borrow an example of each one and see what you like. The early Denon PMA7XX series were also very good and can be bought at a good price.
Lately the Oriental manufacturers have been bowing down to cheaper mass produced Class A/B designs which are not as good.
IMHO Class A is the way to go.
B&W, the highly reputable British speaker company use Rotel amps, or at least they used to.
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Using a passive crossover? Throw it in the bin and amps and speakers all of sudden sound out of this world!
I CANNOT STRESS HOW BAD PASSIVE IS!!!
I CANNOT STRESS HOW BAD PASSIVE IS!!!
SO VERY TRUE.
I adopted a pair of B&W 683s and ripped out the crossovers. Running with a massive six channel F5 they sound BRILLIANT
Iv'e run my speakers active too ( in the past ). And yes they did sound vastly better than in their passive state. I heard an old NAD power amp ( 514 ? ) that also had very good control over the bass driver.
But yes tight bass should also involve some upper frequencies. But then in many cases those are reproduced by the other drivers. The picture is getting murkier (?) !
ESL's are capacitive in nature and so driving at the low end might mean it is easier on the amp as the impedance is much higher ! HF would be more difficult. So high current drive shouldn't be the issue here.....or does it ?
But yes tight bass should also involve some upper frequencies. But then in many cases those are reproduced by the other drivers. The picture is getting murkier (?) !
ESL's are capacitive in nature and so driving at the low end might mean it is easier on the amp as the impedance is much higher ! HF would be more difficult. So high current drive shouldn't be the issue here.....or does it ?
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