Do you place your subwoofer differently depending depending on the room size? Just curious because I've been experimenting with placements of my wireless sub.
Yes and even if the same size/shape/listening position [LP], what's in it and how it's arranged impacts it [series of articles]:
Subwoofer Placement - The Place for Bass Part 1 | Audioholics
GM
Subwoofer Placement - The Place for Bass Part 1 | Audioholics
GM
Place the subwoofer at your listening position for testing. Walk around the room to find where
you like the sound of the bass, and then put the subwoofer there. It will now sound the same
as you heard, when you are back in your listening position. This method is called reciprocity.
you like the sound of the bass, and then put the subwoofer there. It will now sound the same
as you heard, when you are back in your listening position. This method is called reciprocity.
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All depends on how you are driving the sub. If you can shape the output, a corner will give the best and lowest bass but likely to require shaping.
I once (long ago) painted our music room. So with the furniture out, tested 14 speaker locations with a mic where my head ends up with the chair returned.
Amazing how big the differences are esp in a room with serious eigentones and a chair near the middle.
B.
I once (long ago) painted our music room. So with the furniture out, tested 14 speaker locations with a mic where my head ends up with the chair returned.
Amazing how big the differences are esp in a room with serious eigentones and a chair near the middle.
B.
Right, I much prefer corner loading, but can be quite problematic if only using acoustic solutions plus basic tone controls.
Seems reasonable when the LP is near the main fundamental dip in all three planes. 🙁
GM
Seems reasonable when the LP is near the main fundamental dip in all three planes. 🙁
GM
While placing a sub up off the floor is not a bad thing, if it is going to be placed on the floor then the listener should try laying on the floor for this test.
Even with AllenB's wise advice, I've always thought the the inverse test - or any sub listening test - just can't work well.
We have very poor discriminations in the bass range and judging one unruly plot from another unruly plot by ear (and somehow keeping in your memory how each test location works until all are done) seems impossible, unless you are real good at believing you have super-normal powers and a real long time to sample music in each location.
Using REW for a quick run, on the other hand, gives a documented answer right away. Not that an FR plot alone tells the whole story of how a sub sounds, but a solid basis.
As I've posed elsewhere, even your laptop or smartphone mic (at your seat, of course) can do a great job, esp for this kind of comparison of locations.
B.
We have very poor discriminations in the bass range and judging one unruly plot from another unruly plot by ear (and somehow keeping in your memory how each test location works until all are done) seems impossible, unless you are real good at believing you have super-normal powers and a real long time to sample music in each location.
Using REW for a quick run, on the other hand, gives a documented answer right away. Not that an FR plot alone tells the whole story of how a sub sounds, but a solid basis.
As I've posed elsewhere, even your laptop or smartphone mic (at your seat, of course) can do a great job, esp for this kind of comparison of locations.
B.
Amen.
So much easier to figure stuff out when you get a good look at some proper measurements.
Not hard to run a few sweeps at a few choice locations around the room.
So much easier to figure stuff out when you get a good look at some proper measurements.
Not hard to run a few sweeps at a few choice locations around the room.
I like using my ears at my listening position 😉 I have two of them, and together with my brain a degree of averaging and smoothing happens automatically and my memory is long enough to compare across the spectrum with a slow sweep and repeat listening at selected frequencies as desired/required.
"I like using my ears at my listening position I have two of them, and together with my brain a degree of averaging and smoothing happens automatically and my memory is long enough to compare across the spectrum with a slow sweep and repeat listening at selected frequencies as desired/required."
Without uttering a word of doubt about the skills you claim without blushing, I have a tool, purchased in 1958 from "Radio Shack of Boston", that I use like you say. It is a Pop Science (remember the magazine?) test record with a slow sweep below 300 Hz but - ready - with cricket markers at 50 Hz intervals an an accompanying plot for use with a stopwatch.
Always a nostalgic hoot to play it (now digitally). But it's value today when it takes less time to set up and run REW than to find the track: not much.*
B.
* it is running as I type this. The 1890 music box track is nice too but not as great as the KLH test record of music boxes doing opera.
Without uttering a word of doubt about the skills you claim without blushing, I have a tool, purchased in 1958 from "Radio Shack of Boston", that I use like you say. It is a Pop Science (remember the magazine?) test record with a slow sweep below 300 Hz but - ready - with cricket markers at 50 Hz intervals an an accompanying plot for use with a stopwatch.
Always a nostalgic hoot to play it (now digitally). But it's value today when it takes less time to set up and run REW than to find the track: not much.*
B.
* it is running as I type this. The 1890 music box track is nice too but not as great as the KLH test record of music boxes doing opera.
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I can only speak for myself, but I've proven myself wrong time and again, you miss a specific problem area by 10-50hz because of some slight delay or miniscule distraction even if you *think* you are completely focused.
Start changing stuff around only to find you suddenly got more issues, after a while they start piling up and after a bit of desperate fiddling about find it's better to start over from scratch.
It's not magic, it just help get rid of a bit of guesswork and approximation. Not to mention it's much, much faster when you want to look at graphs from several spots around the room.
The tricky bit is getting everyone in the house to stay quiet without offending them, but after a while they just chuckle at your silly antics.
Start changing stuff around only to find you suddenly got more issues, after a while they start piling up and after a bit of desperate fiddling about find it's better to start over from scratch.
It's not magic, it just help get rid of a bit of guesswork and approximation. Not to mention it's much, much faster when you want to look at graphs from several spots around the room.
The tricky bit is getting everyone in the house to stay quiet without offending them, but after a while they just chuckle at your silly antics.
Personally I'm only interested in one position in the room. What do you do if your measurements tell you one thing but your ears tell you something else?
Based on previous experiences I've looked for, and corrected, the wrong things.
In retrospect I did not get the result I wanted by listening alone, but nevertheless managed to convince myself I made things better.
Easy to get high and mighty about stuff...
"I know whats best for me, it's my equipment, and in this specific application I know best. I don't need to measure stuff because my ears work fine."
See that everywhere, it's true for me as well, I've gone into defense mode claiming I know better, only to find that a while later I meet myself in the door so to speak.
Sorry Matt, don't mean to be some kind of knowitall, because I'm really not.
If I could be happy with listening to music in a fixed spot I would do just that, but I want good sound over a bigger area and then you need to look for slightly different things.
Measurements and DSP are excellent tools, but it can be very hard to figure out the correct interpretations and how to implement corrections to get exactly what you want.
And then we got our own opinions and feelings in the way of all this, we're quick to jump to conclusions without really seeing underlying causes and reasons.
Keep second guessing myself constantly, if (and when) I start feeling high and mighty then there's reason to worry, based on previous history that's usually just before I fall flat on my face all over again...
Happens all the time.
IMO that's perfectly fine, as long as I keep trying to understand *why* I just crashed and burned.
In retrospect I did not get the result I wanted by listening alone, but nevertheless managed to convince myself I made things better.
Easy to get high and mighty about stuff...
"I know whats best for me, it's my equipment, and in this specific application I know best. I don't need to measure stuff because my ears work fine."
See that everywhere, it's true for me as well, I've gone into defense mode claiming I know better, only to find that a while later I meet myself in the door so to speak.
Sorry Matt, don't mean to be some kind of knowitall, because I'm really not.
If I could be happy with listening to music in a fixed spot I would do just that, but I want good sound over a bigger area and then you need to look for slightly different things.
Measurements and DSP are excellent tools, but it can be very hard to figure out the correct interpretations and how to implement corrections to get exactly what you want.
And then we got our own opinions and feelings in the way of all this, we're quick to jump to conclusions without really seeing underlying causes and reasons.
Keep second guessing myself constantly, if (and when) I start feeling high and mighty then there's reason to worry, based on previous history that's usually just before I fall flat on my face all over again...
Happens all the time.
IMO that's perfectly fine, as long as I keep trying to understand *why* I just crashed and burned.
I'm not sure why mountainman bob was surprised. Good question but then both measuremements and ears lie a lot.
With measurements at least you know a lot about the circumstances of measurement even if those particular measurements don't encompass the whole of what you are listening for. With ears, you are confounded by often completely unwarranted egotism and arrogance (and always lots of self-deception) but on gross taste issues, no disputing taste.
I like a dollar for every golden-eared listener who mistakes a loud bass guitar at 80 Hz for authentic low bass.
B.
With measurements at least you know a lot about the circumstances of measurement even if those particular measurements don't encompass the whole of what you are listening for. With ears, you are confounded by often completely unwarranted egotism and arrogance (and always lots of self-deception) but on gross taste issues, no disputing taste.
I like a dollar for every golden-eared listener who mistakes a loud bass guitar at 80 Hz for authentic low bass.
B.
It just sounded like something I’d say, I already knew the answer though......ears for me @ my lp, after all I’m the one listening.
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When subs (eg multiple, but applies either way) average over different locations it also irons out the response in those locations.