Hello DIY fans,
I have a crazy idea I would like to run sanity check with the more experience members of the forum.
The starting point is my problem with any DIY spaeker enclosure to bring a "shiny" proffesional finish. The easiest way to achieve this woudl be of course to bring the drawings to a profesional furniture shop around my place of residence, and in Bulgaria a box like
http://www.visaton.de/en/bauvorschlaege/2_wege/altoi/index.html
would be around 50+ EUR
As a solution for the shiny looking box I've got the idea from the forums on ceramic speakers:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums.....-3639.html
http://fullrangedriver.com/for.....php?id=410
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums.....1139431611
but my idea is to use semi pedestal like this:
http://www.fayans.bg/viewP.php.....&pic=0
or more images from google:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=...m=0&q=semi pedestal&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
basically to flip the semi pedestal, glue a baffle in the front with good drivers (fullrange or 2way) and glue a bottom . The baffle and the bottom could be spray paited with spacrling white or even black for more contrast.
The reason behind this is to have the great finish, the toughness of the pedestal and the great looking shape. Problems could be ringing of the porcelain, lack of any flexibility and succaptability to breakage.
For drivers I have no idea what to use. My starting point could be like this:
Visaton:
DT 94 8 Ohm http://www.visaton.de/en/chassis_zubehoer/ht_kalotten/dt94_8.html
W 170 S 4 Ohm http://www.visaton.de/en/chassis_zubehoer/tiefton/w170s_8.html
Any ideas or suggestions whether this idea makes any sence?
I have a crazy idea I would like to run sanity check with the more experience members of the forum.
The starting point is my problem with any DIY spaeker enclosure to bring a "shiny" proffesional finish. The easiest way to achieve this woudl be of course to bring the drawings to a profesional furniture shop around my place of residence, and in Bulgaria a box like
http://www.visaton.de/en/bauvorschlaege/2_wege/altoi/index.html
would be around 50+ EUR
As a solution for the shiny looking box I've got the idea from the forums on ceramic speakers:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums.....-3639.html
http://fullrangedriver.com/for.....php?id=410
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums.....1139431611
but my idea is to use semi pedestal like this:
http://www.fayans.bg/viewP.php.....&pic=0
or more images from google:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=...m=0&q=semi pedestal&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
basically to flip the semi pedestal, glue a baffle in the front with good drivers (fullrange or 2way) and glue a bottom . The baffle and the bottom could be spray paited with spacrling white or even black for more contrast.
The reason behind this is to have the great finish, the toughness of the pedestal and the great looking shape. Problems could be ringing of the porcelain, lack of any flexibility and succaptability to breakage.
For drivers I have no idea what to use. My starting point could be like this:
Visaton:
DT 94 8 Ohm http://www.visaton.de/en/chassis_zubehoer/ht_kalotten/dt94_8.html
W 170 S 4 Ohm http://www.visaton.de/en/chassis_zubehoer/tiefton/w170s_8.html
Any ideas or suggestions whether this idea makes any sence?
I am becoming curious; how come nobody from all the users of the forum doesn't have an opinion on this question?
In order to make my dilemma more clear, I am posting now a draft rendering of the look of such speakers:
The rendering is not realistic as the final glossiness of the ceramic is missing and the drivers would not actually be the same, but the sketch should give an estimation why I consider the project interesting, as my main interest is in the shape.
br
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The rendering is not realistic as the final glossiness of the ceramic is missing and the drivers would not actually be the same, but the sketch should give an estimation why I consider the project interesting, as my main interest is in the shape.
br
mvangel said:
Because it's the middle of the night here? 😉
If memory serves, David Weems did some enclosures out of ceramic chimney pipe. Seemed like a pretty good idea other than the ringiness (easy to fix with well-adhered damping material) and potential for breakage (no easy fix I can think of). Assembly looked to be dead easy. The lack of flexibility is a virtue!
as I can't find a way to conveniently upload picture directly, please take a look the 3D model we did with a colleague today. I hope this will give a better understanding on the design inspiration for the idea:
white baffle:
black baffle:
For me from technological point of view it would be easier to do it with the black baffle, as the color difference of white would not be to intrusive.
Any comments on the design? 😉
I am thinking about using the following drivers couple:
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/25-302sh.htm
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w5-610sf.htm
anybody with experience from TANGBAND ? Here couple of this combination would be around 120 EUR.
BR
white baffle:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
black baffle:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
For me from technological point of view it would be easier to do it with the black baffle, as the color difference of white would not be to intrusive.
Any comments on the design? 😉
I am thinking about using the following drivers couple:
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/25-302sh.htm
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w5-610sf.htm
anybody with experience from TANGBAND ? Here couple of this combination would be around 120 EUR.
BR
Final design 3D model:white baffle looks best
br
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
br
I wouldn't use white. It looks disturbingly toilet-ish.
It still seems to me that you could get that shiny porcelain-like finish on top of a less breakable material. A UV-cure epoxy on MDF or some sort of composite would give you a very lovely finish and a much tougher cabinet that would not need as much damping to kill the ringing.
It still seems to me that you could get that shiny porcelain-like finish on top of a less breakable material. A UV-cure epoxy on MDF or some sort of composite would give you a very lovely finish and a much tougher cabinet that would not need as much damping to kill the ringing.
Yep, you've hit my concern. However, again, if the viewer is not aware of the origin of the shell, I bet no one would be able to just guess...
I'still experimenting with the 3D studio in order to get a better feeling on the final look of the speaker set. Here is the latest render:
I've decided do the baffle in layers:
#1. wooden or MDF plank to which the drivers would attach
#2 decoration layer, could be made of the wallpapers from the room where the speakers would reside
#3 transparent PVC layer, attached to the wooden baffle with decorative bolts.
Will try to make again some pictures.
I'still experimenting with the 3D studio in order to get a better feeling on the final look of the speaker set. Here is the latest render:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I've decided do the baffle in layers:
#1. wooden or MDF plank to which the drivers would attach
#2 decoration layer, could be made of the wallpapers from the room where the speakers would reside
#3 transparent PVC layer, attached to the wooden baffle with decorative bolts.
Will try to make again some pictures.
PVC is a great material for speaker building. These are the ones I just built. In order to get them smooth/shiny you have to wet sand down to about 1000 grit or higher even then buff with a soft cotton cloth. They will have a nice gloss look depending on PVC formulation. Harder formulation can hold the highest sheen in my experience. The ones in these pictures have not been sanded.
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=9
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=8
If you are creative you can make it look however you want and it can take any shape. The sound of PVC veneered wood is far more dead than just wood. Makes for a less colored speaker if that's what you're looking for.
Good luck, keep us posted.
Dan
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=9
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=8
If you are creative you can make it look however you want and it can take any shape. The sound of PVC veneered wood is far more dead than just wood. Makes for a less colored speaker if that's what you're looking for.
Good luck, keep us posted.
Dan
sorry, those links in the previous thread are temporary. Here's some permanent ones.
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=10068&pos=4
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=10068&pos=3
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=10068&pos=4
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=10068&pos=3
I like this one - the black line between the two white masses adds something, I think.
&
Sy, I disagree: I think mvangel is right and this will probably not occur to anyone who doesn't know the origin of the shell. But I quite like re-purposed objects, and this is a pretty nifty one.
Regards.
Aengus
Perhaps these need to be made with electrostatic drivers to ensure a shocking experience for anyone misusing them. Hmm, how come the forum doesn't have a "shocked" icon? 😀
despite all the ridicule, I've went ahead and did try to build a speaker using a ceramic enclosure.
Here is the results in pictures:
1. Step one: materials
In order to make my experiment more interesting, and cost effective, I've purchase a pair of second hands West Germany made ELAC EL 50 bookshelf speakers:
The woofers are like this:
the drivers are in good condition, and as seen in the first pictures, the only problem seemed to be the "dented" dust caps on all the drivers:
Than I "un-dented" using the vacuum cleaner and some sticky take.
2. Second step.Planning
Ok, as this is my first DIY speakers and actually serious wood cutting attempt, I took some time to plan all the necessary steps, BoM, tools.
I did purchase however a hand held router, that served me well for the work.
Original box is 12.5 liters, new shape is 10.5 liters, and eventually even 10.2 liters. This did pose some problem that I have not solved yet, but hopefully I get some ideas from this forum. But about the test later
I ended up planning the new box with simulation tools and instead of the original 5cm x 11 cm vent I put two 3.2 x 6.5 cm vents with Fb 69.2 Hz
3. Cutting, glueing and sanding
Again, as inexperienced in the use of wood cutting tools and especially with the hand held router, I ended up spending some time on trial and errors for the steps and best approach.
Considering I wanted to be able to dismantle the new box and take back the drivers to the original box, I required even more work. I did cut the front baffle with a groove to be able to slide in the woofer in place and then slide it our if needed.
4. Pre-final results:
Design wise this is what I wanted to achieve, instead of the box like shape to have the
" iSpeaker" shape
as a friend called it
Behind you can see the reference speakers in my home setup: Kef Q1s
Still some final touches need to be made for the finish, the link between the baffle and the ceramic body. The body sounds very tough, not a sound of ringing and the knock sound on the body is similar through the entire shape. The speaker ended up weighing over 13 kg, so at least this criteria is fine 🙂
5. the iPod question: looks nice, but how does it sound?
I hooked up the speaker to my Marantz SR-5400 AV receiver, that together with the Kef Q1 sounds fine.I've changed the right speaker with the new ceramic one and let the tests go. During the tests I've swapped the ceramic with the other Elac EL 50 from the purchased pair, still in the original condition and the wooden enclosure in order to to check the difference.
Sound generator: the new speaker doesn't go bellow 70 Hz, the Elac EL 50 in the original body does reach 58 Hz, the 45 form the site are probably on -10 dB. I did however notice a strange problem, I could not hear anything above 10 000 Hz, in the original box I did go up to 11 500 Hz. The dust cap of the tweeter was dented and I did fix it, but I don'd believe this could be the reason. Can the shape affect the level of the High freq?
Music tests: I unleashed Alan Parsons and Stephen Court - Sound Check and compared all 3 speakers. The Q1 wins it all, the original Elac box scores close and my new iSpeaker doesn't perform too well. Same results on Aritha Franklin best of compilation. There is some dynamics missing in the new ceramic speakers. I do guess this is due to the 20% less volume of the new enclosure compared to the original. I guess the driver cannot work properly in the smaller enclosure and the sounds is somehow small ,lacking brightness and stage.
My final question is the following: how can I compensate for the missing volume in the box? Or as a broader question, how can I try to correct the sound at least to the level of the original enclosures?
Summary:
BoM:
Speakers: pair of Elac EL 50: 50 EUR
Ceramic enclosure: 25 EUR
Glue, other materials: 15 EUR
Total excluding the tools: 90 EUR
I've wasted only 40ish EUR, as the Elacs I can still use.
Was it worth 3 days or around 8 hours of wood cutting, gluing, etc?
In terms of sound: so far no
As project and satisfaction from DIY: yes!
Would I continue and do the other speaker? For now not, as I don't hear the expected good results
So was it worth it? Yes, I did enjoy the work and I am happy to take this as a DIY project.
P.S
And a Happy new year to all DIY Audio aficionados!
Here is the results in pictures:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
1. Step one: materials
In order to make my experiment more interesting, and cost effective, I've purchase a pair of second hands West Germany made ELAC EL 50 bookshelf speakers:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The woofers are like this:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
the drivers are in good condition, and as seen in the first pictures, the only problem seemed to be the "dented" dust caps on all the drivers:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Than I "un-dented" using the vacuum cleaner and some sticky take.
2. Second step.Planning
Ok, as this is my first DIY speakers and actually serious wood cutting attempt, I took some time to plan all the necessary steps, BoM, tools.
I did purchase however a hand held router, that served me well for the work.
Original box is 12.5 liters, new shape is 10.5 liters, and eventually even 10.2 liters. This did pose some problem that I have not solved yet, but hopefully I get some ideas from this forum. But about the test later
I ended up planning the new box with simulation tools and instead of the original 5cm x 11 cm vent I put two 3.2 x 6.5 cm vents with Fb 69.2 Hz
3. Cutting, glueing and sanding
Again, as inexperienced in the use of wood cutting tools and especially with the hand held router, I ended up spending some time on trial and errors for the steps and best approach.
Considering I wanted to be able to dismantle the new box and take back the drivers to the original box, I required even more work. I did cut the front baffle with a groove to be able to slide in the woofer in place and then slide it our if needed.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
4. Pre-final results:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Design wise this is what I wanted to achieve, instead of the box like shape to have the
" iSpeaker" shape
as a friend called it
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Behind you can see the reference speakers in my home setup: Kef Q1s
Still some final touches need to be made for the finish, the link between the baffle and the ceramic body. The body sounds very tough, not a sound of ringing and the knock sound on the body is similar through the entire shape. The speaker ended up weighing over 13 kg, so at least this criteria is fine 🙂
5. the iPod question: looks nice, but how does it sound?
I hooked up the speaker to my Marantz SR-5400 AV receiver, that together with the Kef Q1 sounds fine.I've changed the right speaker with the new ceramic one and let the tests go. During the tests I've swapped the ceramic with the other Elac EL 50 from the purchased pair, still in the original condition and the wooden enclosure in order to to check the difference.
Sound generator: the new speaker doesn't go bellow 70 Hz, the Elac EL 50 in the original body does reach 58 Hz, the 45 form the site are probably on -10 dB. I did however notice a strange problem, I could not hear anything above 10 000 Hz, in the original box I did go up to 11 500 Hz. The dust cap of the tweeter was dented and I did fix it, but I don'd believe this could be the reason. Can the shape affect the level of the High freq?
Music tests: I unleashed Alan Parsons and Stephen Court - Sound Check and compared all 3 speakers. The Q1 wins it all, the original Elac box scores close and my new iSpeaker doesn't perform too well. Same results on Aritha Franklin best of compilation. There is some dynamics missing in the new ceramic speakers. I do guess this is due to the 20% less volume of the new enclosure compared to the original. I guess the driver cannot work properly in the smaller enclosure and the sounds is somehow small ,lacking brightness and stage.
My final question is the following: how can I compensate for the missing volume in the box? Or as a broader question, how can I try to correct the sound at least to the level of the original enclosures?
Summary:
BoM:
Speakers: pair of Elac EL 50: 50 EUR
Ceramic enclosure: 25 EUR
Glue, other materials: 15 EUR
Total excluding the tools: 90 EUR
I've wasted only 40ish EUR, as the Elacs I can still use.
Was it worth 3 days or around 8 hours of wood cutting, gluing, etc?
In terms of sound: so far no
As project and satisfaction from DIY: yes!
Would I continue and do the other speaker? For now not, as I don't hear the expected good results
So was it worth it? Yes, I did enjoy the work and I am happy to take this as a DIY project.
P.S
And a Happy new year to all DIY Audio aficionados!
ufff,
I found out why the speaker sounded so dull: I have miss wired the cross over and the tweeter was not connected: the speaker played up till 10k Hz only. Now the ceramic enclosure sounds very similar, if not better than the original enclosure.
I found out why the speaker sounded so dull: I have miss wired the cross over and the tweeter was not connected: the speaker played up till 10k Hz only. Now the ceramic enclosure sounds very similar, if not better than the original enclosure.
Here is my effort. New concept in external ports, the bracket port!
Lined the vase with bitumen sheet to avoid bell like ringing. Cut port hole in base of vase with glass drill Imaging so good that Dusty Springfield was in the same room as me Of course she is no longer with us so a bit scary.
Baffle step a bit of a problem but otherwise OK
Lined the vase with bitumen sheet to avoid bell like ringing. Cut port hole in base of vase with glass drill Imaging so good that Dusty Springfield was in the same room as me Of course she is no longer with us so a bit scary.
Baffle step a bit of a problem but otherwise OK
Attachments
Looks very nice indeed!
What driver did you use? This looks like a TL ? What is total internal volume ? Looks more than 10 liters?
What driver did you use? This looks like a TL ? What is total internal volume ? Looks more than 10 liters?
I originally used the FR125S and since Planet10 I think it was recommended a 7 litre enclosure I found a vase with the right volume and flange diameter. Also designed the bass reflex external port for 45Hz to exploit that drivers good Xmax. However I could not get on with that driver and tried the driver from the cheap Microlab active speakers that Sreten recommended, which has a smooth response to 8kHz. After I had built it i found this excellent B&W technical paper on the development of their 800series
http://bwmedia.keycast.com/download/Libraries/3/800s_l2_w0_h0_2.pdf?dm=633108447502000000
The appendix explains their midrange enclosure. I think the vase approximates that shape The active speakers were on special offer at £25 and the vases cost £6 each B&W performance for £37!
http://bwmedia.keycast.com/download/Libraries/3/800s_l2_w0_h0_2.pdf?dm=633108447502000000
The appendix explains their midrange enclosure. I think the vase approximates that shape The active speakers were on special offer at £25 and the vases cost £6 each B&W performance for £37!
mvangel said:
I actually really like the look of these. I have two concerns though, that might be affecting the sound.
The first is that recessing the drivers on the baffle is probably not a good idea - it's far better to have them on the front of the baffle, preferably flush (i.e. smoothly recessed into the front with a rebate for the driver flanges). I suspect you'll be getting some pretty nasty diffraction issues with them mounted as they are currently.
The second is that, unless you added damping inside (that's not shown in the photos) then the rear wave from the mid/bass driver will be reflecting off the inside of the enclosure, and re-radiating through the driver cone. Add some damping (bitumen sheet or similar) to the inside faces, and possibly some stuffing too. That may help.
consort_ee_um - I like your build too. It's not a million miles from what I'm trying to do - though I'm making life hard for myself by trying to construct my own 'vases'!
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