Did anyone suggest that room acoustics stand alone with room treatments?
Depending on the problem (and taste), a line array may help (or hurt).
For bass problems, most of us know the “double bass array” or “single bass array” can cure bass problems (nulls and modes) in most rooms.
Also “sound field management” and/or distributed “multi subs” can help with bass problems.
These solutions are all part of “room acoustics” using loudspeaker type/configuration, not panel absorbers, Helmholtz resonators, or bass traps.
In a diyaudio forum, I think its a given that a “acoustics section” would generalize in acoustics while listening to music in a room.
After all…outdoors with no boundaries, how can there be any sibilant “early reflections” or “bass cancellations” or “bass modes”.
These are by far the most common gripes amongs people and their listing rooms.
In very poor rooms, just speaking, or a hand clap can sound strange, causing a desire to leave the room.
I voted yes.
I would hope that it's mostly discussion of room acoustics and room treatments. And actual real projects, with photos and measurements.
A guy can dream, right?
Oh I so absolutely agree.
Barry.
The reason I voted 'yes' is the hope it would raise awareness of what the room adds to our general perception or at least how it changes it. How it is always part of the deal once you place the loudspeakers, so carefully designed, into a room.
I see many posts about 'the best tweeter' or 'the best woofer', over on the other side of the loudspeaker forums you'll see similar threads about 'the best full range driver'...
Do we know how much of this 'best' factor remains once we place it in a random living room?
Right now there is a collaboration thread to build a 3 way speaker that started not to long ago. There's lots of talk about how it should look, some drivers were already mentioned but rarely the 'room factor' is mentioned. Can it be successful without that consideration?
I can't even begin to think about designing or building a speaker without first considering how I could place it in my room and still expect great results. So in that way I agree with the posters that state it is (or should be) part of the whole concept.
If this new sub forum will happen or not, if this thread (or similar ones) will help raise awareness of one of the biggest parts of this audio hobby, it will have served a purpose.
I see many posts about 'the best tweeter' or 'the best woofer', over on the other side of the loudspeaker forums you'll see similar threads about 'the best full range driver'...
Do we know how much of this 'best' factor remains once we place it in a random living room?
Right now there is a collaboration thread to build a 3 way speaker that started not to long ago. There's lots of talk about how it should look, some drivers were already mentioned but rarely the 'room factor' is mentioned. Can it be successful without that consideration?
I can't even begin to think about designing or building a speaker without first considering how I could place it in my room and still expect great results. So in that way I agree with the posters that state it is (or should be) part of the whole concept.
If this new sub forum will happen or not, if this thread (or similar ones) will help raise awareness of one of the biggest parts of this audio hobby, it will have served a purpose.
Scott you are talking about sound insulation or the loudspeaker?
In both case there is an interest, sound insulation is where the BIG difference stand between a pro environnement and domestic typical situation imho.
About the loudspeaker it define a condition which have certain constraints, OB having differents one than boxed ( well, more or less).
About this one this a matter of preference in the rendering each one does have its own merits ( boxed, OB) and disadvantages. There is no absolute and in the end this is really a preference thing about what does matter for you, the music you are listening and the constraints you face within your listening space ( waf, room's size, etc,etc...).
In both case there is an interest, sound insulation is where the BIG difference stand between a pro environnement and domestic typical situation imho.
About the loudspeaker it define a condition which have certain constraints, OB having differents one than boxed ( well, more or less).
About this one this a matter of preference in the rendering each one does have its own merits ( boxed, OB) and disadvantages. There is no absolute and in the end this is really a preference thing about what does matter for you, the music you are listening and the constraints you face within your listening space ( waf, room's size, etc,etc...).
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Johnnycamp5, even relatively large dedicated space does have issues.
The point being to understand where and what they are and have a strategy trying to manage about it ( given your loudspeaker choice or preference, etc,etc,...).
Andy19191,
Ok . Room treatment is imho only a part of the whole picture. Understanding how our brain react is as important in my view. Talking only about remedy doesn't help to identify disease.
The point being to understand where and what they are and have a strategy trying to manage about it ( given your loudspeaker choice or preference, etc,etc,...).
Andy19191,
Ok . Room treatment is imho only a part of the whole picture. Understanding how our brain react is as important in my view. Talking only about remedy doesn't help to identify disease.
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Well yes and no.
This is case specific. Think about a large listening room with inwall horn speaker into angled wall and with a cathedral ceilling, then the same place with large planar or OB speaker that are located far away of boundaries.
Both will probably benefits of low freq treatments ( like all rooms) but for what happens above schroeder frequency this is open to debate ( yes diffusion will probably help in both case but for the rest...).
This is case specific. Think about a large listening room with inwall horn speaker into angled wall and with a cathedral ceilling, then the same place with large planar or OB speaker that are located far away of boundaries.
Both will probably benefits of low freq treatments ( like all rooms) but for what happens above schroeder frequency this is open to debate ( yes diffusion will probably help in both case but for the rest...).
Oh, sorry, the room, haha! Room modes, the bass issue, seems the overriding problem to me....the rest my brain can probably work around?
This is a DIY audio website. It doesn't have a science forum with a missing acoustics subforum with a missing psychoacoustics subsubforum. Perhaps it should have?
If what is being proposed actually is an acoustics forum rather than a DIY room acoustics forum then I would like to change my vote from yes to no. This is an example of an acoustics forum I followed for a few years before the number of posts dropped below critical mass. The backgrounds and interests of the people posting there are significantly different from those posting here.
Hi andy19191,
As i said this is my view and i don't claim to have the truth.
The purpose of this thread is not to impose mine but to discuss it and what it could be and the reason i asked many time the one against it to give their opinion.
Your point is well taken for me.
Off topic:
I know the way i explain myself may give the impression i'm arrogant or endlessly questionning answers but this is the way i've learned to apprehend things during my studies and it could be a cultural issue too (the french's way of teaching things is based upon confrontation of ideas which may give this impressions too: we rely on thesis/antithesis/synthesis system to present things).
I am in no way thinking that my view as more value than others.
And to be honnest this is a way to keep the thread alive.
As i said this is my view and i don't claim to have the truth.
The purpose of this thread is not to impose mine but to discuss it and what it could be and the reason i asked many time the one against it to give their opinion.
Your point is well taken for me.
Off topic:
I know the way i explain myself may give the impression i'm arrogant or endlessly questionning answers but this is the way i've learned to apprehend things during my studies and it could be a cultural issue too (the french's way of teaching things is based upon confrontation of ideas which may give this impressions too: we rely on thesis/antithesis/synthesis system to present things).
I am in no way thinking that my view as more value than others.
And to be honnest this is a way to keep the thread alive.
It's not. But of course there will be esoteric and theoretical ramblings. Remember where we are.
It's not. But of course there will be esoteric and theoretical ramblings. Remember where we are.
?? A forum for discussion?
Of course theoretical questions and discussions must be allowed, and of course discussion might wander between theories and practical tests and solutions. And might get rather arrogant too...
The DIY part makes this topic also very interesting to me, because here we are a group of well educated and/or open minded people having same interests. Bass traps, diffusers and absorbers are not simple things at all, but a lot easier to make than loudspeakers!
I think that loudspeaker/in-room measurements are difficult to analyze and we need help from each other there too. Before/after "treatment" measurements help to understand what is happening.
Juhazi:
All points (pro and cons) have to be taken into account.
This is a community after all and diverging points are food for thoughts.
Anyway once the poll will be closed we could analyze the comments and made suggestions about the form/shape this could take (or not). And then a decision could be taken by moderators/administrator team if it happen or not.
At least this is how i see things could happen.
All points (pro and cons) have to be taken into account.
This is a community after all and diverging points are food for thoughts.
Anyway once the poll will be closed we could analyze the comments and made suggestions about the form/shape this could take (or not). And then a decision could be taken by moderators/administrator team if it happen or not.
At least this is how i see things could happen.
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Maybe part if the confusion is that acoustics* is an advanced topic or at least, a topic in the latter sequence of making audio work at home. It doesn't matter if just making basic speakers is your goal but it does show up when you fire up REW to see the results in your room and really care about final outcomes.
Also, acoustics, like economics science, is pretty abstruse and mathematical. So good to have a practical DIY forum to air ideas.
Also, the fixes used in rooms are hard to figure out and access. I bet hardly anybody on this forum has done business with a wholesale supplier of architectural acoustic materials, either of the absorption kind or the barrier kind. Very expensive stuff but very effective too. So there is great need for DIY advice on the performance of materials that are feasible in price.
B.
*I've been saying there is no "acoustics" relevant to DIYaudio which isn't always really "psychoacoustics". You know, you could say the same thing about the science of economics too. What do economists address that likewise might not have humans in the loop too? And when they do leave out the humans - or by assuming a "rational human" making purely numerical judgments - the results are faulty.
Also, acoustics, like economics science, is pretty abstruse and mathematical. So good to have a practical DIY forum to air ideas.
Also, the fixes used in rooms are hard to figure out and access. I bet hardly anybody on this forum has done business with a wholesale supplier of architectural acoustic materials, either of the absorption kind or the barrier kind. Very expensive stuff but very effective too. So there is great need for DIY advice on the performance of materials that are feasible in price.
B.
*I've been saying there is no "acoustics" relevant to DIYaudio which isn't always really "psychoacoustics". You know, you could say the same thing about the science of economics too. What do economists address that likewise might not have humans in the loop too? And when they do leave out the humans - or by assuming a "rational human" making purely numerical judgments - the results are faulty.
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