Is anyone following these areas? I've watched POE lighting gain popularity lately with server racks full of POE switches dedicated to lighting. Rated inherently safe @ <60V- 802.3bt (100w poe) and subject to Class 2 wiring standards (US, NEC). It feels like this could change the way a lot of wiring/lighting is handled. Then I ran across an article on Digital Electricity, packetized electricity at 200 or so packets per second with fault protection, also deemed inherently safe. With IEC/NEC approval, widespread adoption is likely on the horizon. I'll need the 2023 code on hand soon so will go ahead and pick it up to get at first hand look at the details. I'll dig up a link to an article I read a month or so ago. Interesting stuff.
So, anyone else seeing this? Anyone here actually planning on implementing it? New commercial projects might look a little different soon.
Cheers
So, anyone else seeing this? Anyone here actually planning on implementing it? New commercial projects might look a little different soon.
Cheers
So, after reading up on this...just as our cell-phones kept "upgrading" from 2G to three, four, etc...the wiring in our houses, will be rendered obsolete & useless in due time?
When the switch from incandescent to CFL, and finally to LED...it was a transition from the simple...a hot glowing wire,...to an exacting resistor for the number of LEDs driven, in the most basic of circuits. Simple to the complex, why complex? Nowadays one cannot make a simple phone call without powering up your "smartphone", poking in the "security" password...finding the phone icon amongst the plethora of symbols scattered across a screen no bigger that an old notebook...the hardest thing way back when was actually remembering the number of the person you wanted to talk to..pity the poor time-traveler picking up the rotary phone & haplessly poking at the numbers, curious as to why it isn't working.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
When the switch from incandescent to CFL, and finally to LED...it was a transition from the simple...a hot glowing wire,...to an exacting resistor for the number of LEDs driven, in the most basic of circuits. Simple to the complex, why complex? Nowadays one cannot make a simple phone call without powering up your "smartphone", poking in the "security" password...finding the phone icon amongst the plethora of symbols scattered across a screen no bigger that an old notebook...the hardest thing way back when was actually remembering the number of the person you wanted to talk to..pity the poor time-traveler picking up the rotary phone & haplessly poking at the numbers, curious as to why it isn't working.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
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I would expect a larger impact in the commercial world than residential. Commercial implementation will likely be based on performance/cost vs any requirement. Forced wholesale updates isn't really a thing except for life-safety (fire systems, hazardous materials, healthcare) requirements for occupancy licenses and in single family residential spaces, adherence to code is generally only applicable to new work with no mandated upgrades that I'm aware of. I've been in attics that still have knob-and-tube wiring 
I'm not sure it makes much sense to add that much cat-5/6 wire to the build of a house. line voltage has been around for over 100 years now and is likely to be needed for another 100. Most home LED lights still get purchased in edison socket form factor I think. Also the cat-5/PoE could be superceded in 5 years. My house is wired for cat-5(well really they just happened to use cat-5 to allow for 4 phone lines to each room) but I thought N-base-T was on its way out of most home installations with wifi. Personally I prefer wired, as it is more robust, but means I need a switch in any room with more than one device. I know I am an outlier, but have a primary switch which ties the rooms together and 4 more switches in rooms to allow multiple devices in those rooms. But then, I also do static IP addresses! Old school.
Looks like Cisco don’t know how POE works:
https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/solutions/enterprise-networks/what-is-poe-lighting.html#~q-a
Where do they think the P comes from in POE?
Brian
https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/solutions/enterprise-networks/what-is-poe-lighting.html#~q-a
Where do they think the P comes from in POE?
Brian
Poe Ligthning products aren't available yet from mayor manufacturers on my area, but I'm looking at this technology. It may solve several issues, and you don't need a separate wiring for control purposes like today's EIB or DALI, but the max line lenght limitationi is a mayor burden.
I don't see residential applications in the near future at least here; electricians that workon this field aren't trained or equipped. They already struggle with existing field bus systems.
A further issue with PoE lighting is the increasing popularity of CCA (Copper Clad Aluminium) wires. they don't play well with PoE. I always make sure on our tenders to specify that CCA is not allowed but due to the lower cost CCA is becoming the standard here.
I don't see residential applications in the near future at least here; electricians that workon this field aren't trained or equipped. They already struggle with existing field bus systems.
A further issue with PoE lighting is the increasing popularity of CCA (Copper Clad Aluminium) wires. they don't play well with PoE. I always make sure on our tenders to specify that CCA is not allowed but due to the lower cost CCA is becoming the standard here.
As side note: just fo fun, a few years ago I've built a very simple completely electromechanical circuit to trigger the delivery of the 48V power from a PoE socket. A relay and a few resistors do the trick. Of course the proper way is to use a cheap specialized chip, this is also the only way to enable the higher power drawings, but to get the basic PoE functionality a semiconductor is not even required.
I'm not familiar with codes and licensure there, but here, installations of these systems will be the domain of those with Limited Energy, telecom/data licenses who won't require any special training. For most, their day in and day out work involves networked systems. CCA doesn't meet UL/NEC requirements and isn't found on installations requiring permitting and inspection. The unknowing and unscrupulous buy that garbage and I do see it used here and there on retrofit work done without permits.
* Interesting that you were able to draw POE without sending unit confirming the power class. I didn't know that was possible.
* Interesting that you were able to draw POE without sending unit confirming the power class. I didn't know that was possible.
Under IEEE 802.3af, the PSE (Power Sourcing Equipment) has the option to default to class 0 if the classification phase is not successful. The PD (Powered Device) triggers a class 0 signature by presenting a 24.9k resistor during the classification phase, the same resistor value used for the previous detection phase. The trick on my circuit was to connect the 24.9K resistor at the NC terminal of the relay. During the 500mS identification window and the following classification, the resistor is there and the PoE switch turns on the power. This will energize the relay, disconnect the resistor, and connect the load instead (it should draw more than 10mA, othervise the power will be cut). Of course a mosfet would be a better choice, and a purpose-built IC such as LTC4257 is the correct one, but my goal was to get power with no semiconductor devices involved.
According to 802.3at this is a implemantation of the so called type 1 PD powered by a PSE suppliying the power according to the "Mode B" power scheme - this means using the blue and brown pairs only. Some old ethernet switches do not support Mode B, but current production switches do, even the cheapest. Max allowable power draw for class 0 is 13W at 50V, voltage can be as low as 37V due to resistive losses of the line.
I'm still wondering why no one sells Usb-C chargers for PoE ethernet outlets. It would be a straighforward application and the charger electronics may be concealed inside the connector.
According to 802.3at this is a implemantation of the so called type 1 PD powered by a PSE suppliying the power according to the "Mode B" power scheme - this means using the blue and brown pairs only. Some old ethernet switches do not support Mode B, but current production switches do, even the cheapest. Max allowable power draw for class 0 is 13W at 50V, voltage can be as low as 37V due to resistive losses of the line.
I'm still wondering why no one sells Usb-C chargers for PoE ethernet outlets. It would be a straighforward application and the charger electronics may be concealed inside the connector.