I'm posting this message to hopefully get to the conclusion of my project that much easier. I started a great while ago collecting the necessary parts and have been putting in the occasional weekend. I feel as though I'm almost there, but have a fun bugs to work out.
Ushio/lumenlab lens kit
The result of the first weekend of labor.
I went mostly off theory posted on the web. My box dimensions are 34" long x 15" tall x 16" wide. The plywood is 1/2" thick. Wood glue, radial saw, and compressed air brad nailer made making the box easy enough. Mounted the Mogul Base, unfortunately after this particular weekend I shorted the lcd I was using while testing my FFC connector. Nearly one month passed as I tried to secure a new LCD.
3 weeks ago I wired up the ballast and was surprised that it worked. Tonight I rewired it all to a terminal strip. This was done in order to allow to ease the addition of the lcd's power supply. The whole mess is wired to a single switch which will control the ballast, lcd, and fans. Fans are not installed yet and can be easily configured to allow operation independent of ballast power.
Quite possibly the hardest element of the entire project. Searching for decent frame designs amounted to little in the way or results. Luckily my 14" replacement LCD is smaller than the fresnels. Lucky because that means they do not have to be sandwiched in glass, the use of this vinyl holder makes mounting the fresnels easier. Although finding the correct orientation dimensions so as centered took a couple tries. The frame furthest back is the prototype which now holds the lexan UV filter.
It's alive and supposed to be blocking UV. Then I turned it off and found that I had place the lexan in backwards! A stupid mistake, I had even purchased welding goggles but neglected to wear them during this test.
220mm Fresnel inserted. Light patters are interesting, this was the 2nd run. On the first try I had the garage door open and light was being projected to my neighbors house 300 feet away. Not something to be doing at 11 of clock at night.
Onto the closed garage door roughly 9 feet away, but horribly out of focus. With a single 220 or 330mm fresnel it was possible to focus on the fine details of the Ushio bulb.
So with that I present my litany of questions:
1) Focusing, what is the best method to accomplish this? Since I haven't installed my LCD yet, is there a way I can do this? All my measuring tools are in English/Imperial rather than metric. The first fresnel is at 220mm, the 2nd at 330mm? Is there something more to this? What's the best way to hold the lenses in place once optimal focus has been achieved? Right now my pieces are a pain to move and need to be sanded a bit.
2) Objective lens mount. From Ushio to end of the box is about 32", however this doesn't appear to be enough, which I why I am constructing the external objective holder/focuser. What is the best way to construct this? I'm trying to follow the diyprojectorcompany plans of dowel rods and single screw adjustments, but it's much too stiff.
3) I have purchased a condenser, but not a reflector. Does anyone have a link to where I can get an IKEA napkin holder online? Also I have no idea how to mount the condenser. Is it worth it?
4) Flashing. While I'm still a ways from completing the project, what type of metal should i use for flashing? Where can I get it?
5) Fans - Where should i place them? What type of material blocks out light? My setup will need cooling, my lexan warped a bit when it was in backwards.
6) The panel is an X2GEN 14" lcd. It has a 22pin FFC connector. I have a few extra ffc cables from the last monitor, a proview. (40pin and 30pin or so) I plan on cutting these two to the same length, what is the best way to attach them without a soldering iron - I'd like to sort of crimp them will this work?
7) Finally, Jo Ann Fabrics only has black out cloth available in 54" length Are my calculations off, but I don't seem to think I can project much larger than a 70" image onto this. This material doesn't stretch that much does it? Is another part of DIYAudio dedicated to sewing?
thank you folks in advance. This place is a wonderful resource
Ushio/lumenlab lens kit
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The result of the first weekend of labor.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I went mostly off theory posted on the web. My box dimensions are 34" long x 15" tall x 16" wide. The plywood is 1/2" thick. Wood glue, radial saw, and compressed air brad nailer made making the box easy enough. Mounted the Mogul Base, unfortunately after this particular weekend I shorted the lcd I was using while testing my FFC connector. Nearly one month passed as I tried to secure a new LCD.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
3 weeks ago I wired up the ballast and was surprised that it worked. Tonight I rewired it all to a terminal strip. This was done in order to allow to ease the addition of the lcd's power supply. The whole mess is wired to a single switch which will control the ballast, lcd, and fans. Fans are not installed yet and can be easily configured to allow operation independent of ballast power.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Quite possibly the hardest element of the entire project. Searching for decent frame designs amounted to little in the way or results. Luckily my 14" replacement LCD is smaller than the fresnels. Lucky because that means they do not have to be sandwiched in glass, the use of this vinyl holder makes mounting the fresnels easier. Although finding the correct orientation dimensions so as centered took a couple tries. The frame furthest back is the prototype which now holds the lexan UV filter.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It's alive and supposed to be blocking UV. Then I turned it off and found that I had place the lexan in backwards! A stupid mistake, I had even purchased welding goggles but neglected to wear them during this test.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
220mm Fresnel inserted. Light patters are interesting, this was the 2nd run. On the first try I had the garage door open and light was being projected to my neighbors house 300 feet away. Not something to be doing at 11 of clock at night.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Onto the closed garage door roughly 9 feet away, but horribly out of focus. With a single 220 or 330mm fresnel it was possible to focus on the fine details of the Ushio bulb.
So with that I present my litany of questions:
1) Focusing, what is the best method to accomplish this? Since I haven't installed my LCD yet, is there a way I can do this? All my measuring tools are in English/Imperial rather than metric. The first fresnel is at 220mm, the 2nd at 330mm? Is there something more to this? What's the best way to hold the lenses in place once optimal focus has been achieved? Right now my pieces are a pain to move and need to be sanded a bit.
2) Objective lens mount. From Ushio to end of the box is about 32", however this doesn't appear to be enough, which I why I am constructing the external objective holder/focuser. What is the best way to construct this? I'm trying to follow the diyprojectorcompany plans of dowel rods and single screw adjustments, but it's much too stiff.
3) I have purchased a condenser, but not a reflector. Does anyone have a link to where I can get an IKEA napkin holder online? Also I have no idea how to mount the condenser. Is it worth it?
4) Flashing. While I'm still a ways from completing the project, what type of metal should i use for flashing? Where can I get it?
5) Fans - Where should i place them? What type of material blocks out light? My setup will need cooling, my lexan warped a bit when it was in backwards.
6) The panel is an X2GEN 14" lcd. It has a 22pin FFC connector. I have a few extra ffc cables from the last monitor, a proview. (40pin and 30pin or so) I plan on cutting these two to the same length, what is the best way to attach them without a soldering iron - I'd like to sort of crimp them will this work?
7) Finally, Jo Ann Fabrics only has black out cloth available in 54" length Are my calculations off, but I don't seem to think I can project much larger than a 70" image onto this. This material doesn't stretch that much does it? Is another part of DIYAudio dedicated to sewing?
thank you folks in advance. This place is a wonderful resource
First: Build a box!
Starting with the part you know is fine, but for a DIY projector you should setup a temporary "test bench" to discover the actual distances before you build the box!
You did not say in your post, but I assume you are using a 300 mm fl projection triplet.
>1) Focusing: Your 220 mm fl fresnel goes 220 mm from the lamp arc, rough side away from lamp. The LCD goes 10-20 mm after that. The 330 mm fl fresnel goes 10-20 mm after the LCD, rough side facing the LCD. The distance between the LCD and the projection lens depends on your throw distance:
1/lens fl = 1/LCD to lens + 1/lens to screen
If the throw distance is 8 feet, then the LCD to lens distance will be about 342 mm.
The magnification is equal to the throw distance divided by the LCD to lens distance, in this case 7.13. So Your projected image will be 14" * 7.13 = 99.8" diagonal.
2) Objective lens mount: There are as many of these as there are DIY projectors! Just make sure it has some adjustment possible, and that the lens will not fall out (or in, even worse!) if you tilt the projector. Do NOT obstruct the light path from the LCD to the lens or the lens to the screen.
3) is condensor worth it? Well, you already paid for it, so you might as well give it a try. If you get it right, it will give you a brighter image. But there are many more ways to get it wrong!
It makes a much bigger difference with a smaller LCD.
4)Flashing: Do not install metal directly against the wooden box, if that metal is exposed to the bright light. It can get hot enough to burn the wood! (You need free air space between the hot metal and the wood.) Do get some thin aluminum at Home Depot to make a light box and air ducts, etc. You can also fabricate lens mounts, etc. from their thicker aluminum sheets and extrusions. DO NOT make anything close to the lamp out of wood or plastic!
5) Fan: I use one 65 CFM 120 VAC Radio Shack fan to pull air through the box, around the lamp, and then push it out a vent in the side of the box. Works fine. Others get more elaborate with a fan for the LCD, a fan pushing cold air into the box, another pulling it out from around the lamp, etc.
6) FFC: Search this forum for "FFC extender". There are great threads on this. You should just buy the right FFC and socket for <$10. No cutting/soldering required!
7) Screen: A screen 54" high would fit a 90" image. If that is okay, then just push your projector a bit closer to the screen. (But blackout cloth is not that great.) Otherwise you could make a screen from larger material or just use a flat white wall. (Unpainted wallboard mud is terrific!) Huge amount of info on different screens, screen material, and DIY painted screens:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=23
Starting with the part you know is fine, but for a DIY projector you should setup a temporary "test bench" to discover the actual distances before you build the box!
You did not say in your post, but I assume you are using a 300 mm fl projection triplet.
>1) Focusing: Your 220 mm fl fresnel goes 220 mm from the lamp arc, rough side away from lamp. The LCD goes 10-20 mm after that. The 330 mm fl fresnel goes 10-20 mm after the LCD, rough side facing the LCD. The distance between the LCD and the projection lens depends on your throw distance:
1/lens fl = 1/LCD to lens + 1/lens to screen
If the throw distance is 8 feet, then the LCD to lens distance will be about 342 mm.
The magnification is equal to the throw distance divided by the LCD to lens distance, in this case 7.13. So Your projected image will be 14" * 7.13 = 99.8" diagonal.
2) Objective lens mount: There are as many of these as there are DIY projectors! Just make sure it has some adjustment possible, and that the lens will not fall out (or in, even worse!) if you tilt the projector. Do NOT obstruct the light path from the LCD to the lens or the lens to the screen.
3) is condensor worth it? Well, you already paid for it, so you might as well give it a try. If you get it right, it will give you a brighter image. But there are many more ways to get it wrong!
It makes a much bigger difference with a smaller LCD.
4)Flashing: Do not install metal directly against the wooden box, if that metal is exposed to the bright light. It can get hot enough to burn the wood! (You need free air space between the hot metal and the wood.) Do get some thin aluminum at Home Depot to make a light box and air ducts, etc. You can also fabricate lens mounts, etc. from their thicker aluminum sheets and extrusions. DO NOT make anything close to the lamp out of wood or plastic!
5) Fan: I use one 65 CFM 120 VAC Radio Shack fan to pull air through the box, around the lamp, and then push it out a vent in the side of the box. Works fine. Others get more elaborate with a fan for the LCD, a fan pushing cold air into the box, another pulling it out from around the lamp, etc.
6) FFC: Search this forum for "FFC extender". There are great threads on this. You should just buy the right FFC and socket for <$10. No cutting/soldering required!
7) Screen: A screen 54" high would fit a 90" image. If that is okay, then just push your projector a bit closer to the screen. (But blackout cloth is not that great.) Otherwise you could make a screen from larger material or just use a flat white wall. (Unpainted wallboard mud is terrific!) Huge amount of info on different screens, screen material, and DIY painted screens:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=23
I tried making the FFC by cutting my other FFCs, too difficult. Ended up going to mouser and purchasing 2 20pin ffcs and connectors. They arrived this afternoon and only need 1 set. After placing the LCD in my frame I took my computer out to the garage to get a fix on the final positions the lcd and fresnels need to be located at. Now I've run into some more problems.
In the straight through design I do not need to flip the lcd, correct? My panel has the electronics off the top side, but now it exhibits some odd behavior which I do not believe are weak connections or stressed ribbon cables.
The panel will work for maybe a minute or so while in my projector (UV shield, and fresnels are installed), but soon afterwards the panel goes wonky and starts flashing/jittering. Any ideas? I'm not sure if its a grounding issue or not. I'm considering extending the wires from the control board to the LCD and enclosing them in some sort of foil, as well as trying to ground the panel(even though it has no ground on the power connector).
Any ideas?
In the straight through design I do not need to flip the lcd, correct? My panel has the electronics off the top side, but now it exhibits some odd behavior which I do not believe are weak connections or stressed ribbon cables.
The panel will work for maybe a minute or so while in my projector (UV shield, and fresnels are installed), but soon afterwards the panel goes wonky and starts flashing/jittering. Any ideas? I'm not sure if its a grounding issue or not. I'm considering extending the wires from the control board to the LCD and enclosing them in some sort of foil, as well as trying to ground the panel(even though it has no ground on the power connector).
Any ideas?
Flipped LCD=works, the ribbon cables are being stressed, causing them to flake out. I need a better way to support the panel. I'm thinking of some sort of rubber stoppers at the bottoms where there aren't any ribbon cables.
Next problem: My dimensions are off! Why, here is everything I measured in focus. Problem is that my projector lens only focuses from 6" inside the box. What did I do wrong?
Dimensions:
exterior:
33 3/4" long
15" tall
16" wide
interior:
32 3/4" long
14" tall
15" wide
Bulb is 3 1/4" from the back inside panel to middle of the inside.
Element positions with focus:
220 7 7/8"
LCD 9 1/8"
330 13"
Projection lens 22"
in metric:
220 200mm
lcd 231mm
330 ~ 330mm
Projection lens ~ 558mm
I made my box 10" too long?!? I must have switched my fresnels right?
Next problem: My dimensions are off! Why, here is everything I measured in focus. Problem is that my projector lens only focuses from 6" inside the box. What did I do wrong?
Dimensions:
exterior:
33 3/4" long
15" tall
16" wide
interior:
32 3/4" long
14" tall
15" wide
Bulb is 3 1/4" from the back inside panel to middle of the inside.
Element positions with focus:
220 7 7/8"
LCD 9 1/8"
330 13"
Projection lens 22"
in metric:
220 200mm
lcd 231mm
330 ~ 330mm
Projection lens ~ 558mm
I made my box 10" too long?!? I must have switched my fresnels right?
what?
Sorry, but your measurements don't make much sense to me! You need to tell us the distance between the various elements:
lamp arc to first fresnel:
first fresnel to LCD: (should be about 10-20 mm)
LCD to second fresnel: (should be 10-30 mm)
LCD to projection lens:
projection lens to screen:
(Assuming you are using a split fresnel design.)
One BIG problem is that you are trying to use a 22" projection lens with a 330 mm fl field fresnel. It will be difficult to get a bright image with that fresnel. A 550 or 650 mm fl fresnel would work much better. The 330 is ideal for a 300 mm fl projection lens.
The distance between the LCD, the lens, and the screen are all related by the focal length of the lens:
1/lens fl = 1/lcd to lens + 1/lens to screen
For a particular throw distance, you can use that to calculate the LCD to lens distance. Then you select and adjust the fresnel positions to get the lamp arc image focussed at the center of the lens, to get the brightest image. The fresnels have nothing to do with focussing the image on the screen.
Sorry, but your measurements don't make much sense to me! You need to tell us the distance between the various elements:
lamp arc to first fresnel:
first fresnel to LCD: (should be about 10-20 mm)
LCD to second fresnel: (should be 10-30 mm)
LCD to projection lens:
projection lens to screen:
(Assuming you are using a split fresnel design.)
One BIG problem is that you are trying to use a 22" projection lens with a 330 mm fl field fresnel. It will be difficult to get a bright image with that fresnel. A 550 or 650 mm fl fresnel would work much better. The 330 is ideal for a 300 mm fl projection lens.
The distance between the LCD, the lens, and the screen are all related by the focal length of the lens:
1/lens fl = 1/lcd to lens + 1/lens to screen
For a particular throw distance, you can use that to calculate the LCD to lens distance. Then you select and adjust the fresnel positions to get the lamp arc image focussed at the center of the lens, to get the brightest image. The fresnels have nothing to do with focussing the image on the screen.
Re: what?
First, thanks for helping me out Guy, I'm just glad I finally got an image working!
Rundown of parts used in split design:
220mm Fresnel from Lumenlab
330mm Fresnel from Lumenlab
317mm Triplet from Lumenlab
14" LCD
first fresnel to LCD: 31mm
LCD to second fresnel: 100mm
LCD to projection lens: 228mm
projection lens to screen: 84inch(2133mm)
I made my box 8 1/2" inches too long. My inside dimensions are 32 3/4" long, it only needs to be 25 1/4" long.
Inside to middle of lamp: 3 1/4"
middle of lamp to 1st fresnel:7 7/8"
1st fresnel to LCD: 1 1/4"
LCD to 2nd fresnel: 3 7/8"
2nd fresnel to Triplet:9"
before I go hack off 8 1/2" did I do my math correctly?
Guy Grotke said:
First, thanks for helping me out Guy, I'm just glad I finally got an image working!
Rundown of parts used in split design:
220mm Fresnel from Lumenlab
330mm Fresnel from Lumenlab
317mm Triplet from Lumenlab
14" LCD
first fresnel to LCD: 31mm
LCD to second fresnel: 100mm
LCD to projection lens: 228mm
projection lens to screen: 84inch(2133mm)
I made my box 8 1/2" inches too long. My inside dimensions are 32 3/4" long, it only needs to be 25 1/4" long.
Inside to middle of lamp: 3 1/4"
middle of lamp to 1st fresnel:7 7/8"
1st fresnel to LCD: 1 1/4"
LCD to 2nd fresnel: 3 7/8"
2nd fresnel to Triplet:9"
before I go hack off 8 1/2" did I do my math correctly?
way off!
Sorry, I thought you were using a 22" fl projection lens. (I told you those numbers were confusing!)
If you are using a 317 mm fl projection lens, then your LCD to lens distance would have to be more than 317 mm. The reason your's is less, is because you have the 330 mm fl fresnel so far from the LCD: It is acting as part of the projection lens to give you a much shorter effective focal length. (And a really bad image, I bet!)
The good news is that you do have the right fresnels for a 317 mm triplet projection lens. All you need to do is to get the spacing right.
Fresnel rings should both face the LCD.
Put your 220 mm fl fresnel about 220 mm from the lamp arc.
Put your LCD 10-20 mm from the 220 fresnel.
Put your 330 mm fl fresnel 10-20 mm from the LCD.
Put your projection lens about 370 mm from the LCD.
(Always wear UV-blocking sunglasses when you can see the exposed lamp running: You can get UV eye burns!)
Turn on the lamp and adjust the lens position to get a focussed image 84" from the lens.
Take out the lens and put a piece of thin white paper where the center of the lens goes.
Adjust the distance between the lamp arc and the 220 fresnel a few millimeters until a bright arc image is focussed on the paper.
Replace your projection lens. You are done.
Sorry, I thought you were using a 22" fl projection lens. (I told you those numbers were confusing!)
If you are using a 317 mm fl projection lens, then your LCD to lens distance would have to be more than 317 mm. The reason your's is less, is because you have the 330 mm fl fresnel so far from the LCD: It is acting as part of the projection lens to give you a much shorter effective focal length. (And a really bad image, I bet!)
The good news is that you do have the right fresnels for a 317 mm triplet projection lens. All you need to do is to get the spacing right.
Fresnel rings should both face the LCD.
Put your 220 mm fl fresnel about 220 mm from the lamp arc.
Put your LCD 10-20 mm from the 220 fresnel.
Put your 330 mm fl fresnel 10-20 mm from the LCD.
Put your projection lens about 370 mm from the LCD.
(Always wear UV-blocking sunglasses when you can see the exposed lamp running: You can get UV eye burns!)
Turn on the lamp and adjust the lens position to get a focussed image 84" from the lens.
Take out the lens and put a piece of thin white paper where the center of the lens goes.
Adjust the distance between the lamp arc and the 220 fresnel a few millimeters until a bright arc image is focussed on the paper.
Replace your projection lens. You are done.
I shortened the box and placed the fresnels as best I could. My frames have too much depth - they can't make it to the required dimensions. Need to remake them. Also the LCD isn't level, the FFC and controlling circuitry do not allow the other fresnel to reach. Brightness cannot be tested until the front of the box is replaced.
Even with all this the whole picture was viewable. Quite a few things learned here, I think I may finish construction of this box and begin on a new design which fixes my mistakes
Even with all this the whole picture was viewable. Quite a few things learned here, I think I may finish construction of this box and begin on a new design which fixes my mistakes
testbench
Since very few of us actually buy or copy somebody else's exact plans, it is very useful to make an optical test bench before building an enclosure. It doesn't have to be fancy: Just a table top where you can lay out the lamp, fresnels, and projection lens, with a throw distance that matches your intended application. You can use C-clamps, locking pliers, or even duct tape to hold everything up. (I used stacks of books & tape. 😀 )
This lets you determine the exact distances for each element before you start sawing up the box material. It also can show you that you need to go back to the drawing board.
Don't forget to wear UV-blocking sunglasses when you are exposed to a lit MH lamp. UV eye burn is very painful.
Since very few of us actually buy or copy somebody else's exact plans, it is very useful to make an optical test bench before building an enclosure. It doesn't have to be fancy: Just a table top where you can lay out the lamp, fresnels, and projection lens, with a throw distance that matches your intended application. You can use C-clamps, locking pliers, or even duct tape to hold everything up. (I used stacks of books & tape. 😀 )
This lets you determine the exact distances for each element before you start sawing up the box material. It also can show you that you need to go back to the drawing board.
Don't forget to wear UV-blocking sunglasses when you are exposed to a lit MH lamp. UV eye burn is very painful.
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