I recently put together a pair of 4 way, open baffle speakers using mostly existing drivers that I have had for a while.
After reading in depth about 2 prominent designs, I decided to knock together something that would somewhat pproximate similar results.
I am not disappointed with the results, and believe they are worthy of cabinet finishing.
The lower mid/upper bass driver is a Vifa P21 taken from my long serving Centaurs. The upper mid is a Tang Band 3" fullrange with a Dayton 5/8" dome on top. The lower bass is handled by a pair of 10" GRS woofers in a W frame format. Bass amplification is provided by an older PE subwoofer plate amp, and the upper ranges use a YL 50wpc D class amp.
A 2x4 minidsp is used for crossovers and Eq. Xover points are 100Hz and 700HZ with a 4.7uf inline cap on the dome tweeter.
Pretty good performing arrangement for a smallish, 15' x 13' room.
Best bass I have achieved in my room after many, many attempts at diffeent sub arrangements.
And cheap, too. Thought I would share.
Peter
After reading in depth about 2 prominent designs, I decided to knock together something that would somewhat pproximate similar results.
I am not disappointed with the results, and believe they are worthy of cabinet finishing.
The lower mid/upper bass driver is a Vifa P21 taken from my long serving Centaurs. The upper mid is a Tang Band 3" fullrange with a Dayton 5/8" dome on top. The lower bass is handled by a pair of 10" GRS woofers in a W frame format. Bass amplification is provided by an older PE subwoofer plate amp, and the upper ranges use a YL 50wpc D class amp.
A 2x4 minidsp is used for crossovers and Eq. Xover points are 100Hz and 700HZ with a 4.7uf inline cap on the dome tweeter.
Pretty good performing arrangement for a smallish, 15' x 13' room.
Best bass I have achieved in my room after many, many attempts at diffeent sub arrangements.
And cheap, too. Thought I would share.
Peter
Attachments
Apart from the crossover to the tweeter with only a series cap, you seem to have gotten most everything right. The design looks like a cross between an Nao Note and an Orion.
From my own design and build experience I feel that open baffle speakers can provide amazing imaging and lack the coloration of a boxed speaker in the midrange. There are certain limitations to work around for OB, and for the miniDSP, but I seem to (think that I have at least) figured these out now.
BTW, which GRS woofer are you using?
From my own design and build experience I feel that open baffle speakers can provide amazing imaging and lack the coloration of a boxed speaker in the midrange. There are certain limitations to work around for OB, and for the miniDSP, but I seem to (think that I have at least) figured these out now.
BTW, which GRS woofer are you using?
GRS 10SW-4 about $19.00ea
I realize that I need to address the dome tweeters. There is also a rear facing one BTW.
The frequency response using my Radio Shack meter and test CD seem happy the way it is, but I seem to hear some brittleness in violins, say at louder volume levels.
I originally used only the 3" TB full range, but found that adding the tweeters gave a little more "airiness".
I thought about using a minidsp for each speaker and adding the two Symasyms amps that I have been using for a few years and cross the little domes at about 5khz.
It's all part of the fun.
As happy as I am with these, the Centaur ribbon is still my favorite T/M. Of course, one has to sit stationary in a very limited location to hear the best of them. Two sets of ears cannot share that experience at the same time.
I realize that I need to address the dome tweeters. There is also a rear facing one BTW.
The frequency response using my Radio Shack meter and test CD seem happy the way it is, but I seem to hear some brittleness in violins, say at louder volume levels.
I originally used only the 3" TB full range, but found that adding the tweeters gave a little more "airiness".
I thought about using a minidsp for each speaker and adding the two Symasyms amps that I have been using for a few years and cross the little domes at about 5khz.
It's all part of the fun.
As happy as I am with these, the Centaur ribbon is still my favorite T/M. Of course, one has to sit stationary in a very limited location to hear the best of them. Two sets of ears cannot share that experience at the same time.
Hi peter,
I am on the look out for Open Baffle Woofers to be mated with Planned Electrostatic Panel at about 250 Hz. Do you think GRS 10SW-4 would be a good choice ?
Thanks!
Jayant
Nice!
Do you have a cloth/sock to cover top part frame?
Pj, you should do some studies, put minidsp to control mid and tweeter, try different xrossover points and slopes. A passive xo sould not be too difficult to make. The mid driver's cone resonance is likely to make coloration to treble if you dont suppress it.
Do you have a cloth/sock to cover top part frame?
Pj, you should do some studies, put minidsp to control mid and tweeter, try different xrossover points and slopes. A passive xo sould not be too difficult to make. The mid driver's cone resonance is likely to make coloration to treble if you dont suppress it.
Jayant....
I built a pair of ripole subs using Dayton RS265 to use with my Apogee ribbons and they performed very well, except sensitivity is very low. They also performed similarly with these OB speakers, but I feel the additional output using a pair of GRS 10" woofers is better in this application and in my room. For not much money, they are worth a shot.
Jihazi......
I am in the process of making an upper grille that will slightly overlap the lower one.
Thanks for the tips on the crossover points. This is work in progress(aren't they all?).
I made the baffle detachable in order to try different mids. Anyone have any bright ideas on a substitute for the Tang Band? I have a pair of Fountek FR58ex that I haven't tried yet.
Peter
I built a pair of ripole subs using Dayton RS265 to use with my Apogee ribbons and they performed very well, except sensitivity is very low. They also performed similarly with these OB speakers, but I feel the additional output using a pair of GRS 10" woofers is better in this application and in my room. For not much money, they are worth a shot.
Jihazi......
I am in the process of making an upper grille that will slightly overlap the lower one.
Thanks for the tips on the crossover points. This is work in progress(aren't they all?).
I made the baffle detachable in order to try different mids. Anyone have any bright ideas on a substitute for the Tang Band? I have a pair of Fountek FR58ex that I haven't tried yet.
Peter
My educated gues is that FR58 is too weak/small in the low end around 700Hz evne with acoustic LR4 (dipole dip) In my Ainos I first had double Vifa 95 fullranges in series, and with just one playing distortion was doubled and was intolerable. Stick around 4"/100mm drivers and you will be happy! Special midrange drivers will run out of xmax easily.
Possibly the vifa tc9fd?
That one seems to have been used in OB with some success. As a dedicated midrange it may well be decent.
I'll attempt to come up with a passive crossover for the existing TB and Dayton dome before I do anything else. Not my forte though.
That one seems to have been used in OB with some success. As a dedicated midrange it may well be decent.
I'll attempt to come up with a passive crossover for the existing TB and Dayton dome before I do anything else. Not my forte though.
For the last couple of days I have been listening to the Notions with the Fountek FR58ex in place of the tang band and with the little Dayton dome disconnected.
I raised the crossover point to 1khz, and played with slopes, currently LR4 fountek and LR2 vifa. No equalization on the Fountek and the result is silky smooth. Lots of detail, no harshness and my best vinyls sound quite stunning.
My #1 go-to LP for real testing is the LA4 "peacock" album, and the snap of the side drums, reediness of the soprano sax, vibration of the double bass strings and fingering of the guitar have never sounded better. The only problem is that the run-of- the - mill sound so- so. The best ones, of which there are few, are really good.
The driver swap was easy. Just cut a sub baffle from Masonite to fit the existing cut out.
Peter
I raised the crossover point to 1khz, and played with slopes, currently LR4 fountek and LR2 vifa. No equalization on the Fountek and the result is silky smooth. Lots of detail, no harshness and my best vinyls sound quite stunning.
My #1 go-to LP for real testing is the LA4 "peacock" album, and the snap of the side drums, reediness of the soprano sax, vibration of the double bass strings and fingering of the guitar have never sounded better. The only problem is that the run-of- the - mill sound so- so. The best ones, of which there are few, are really good.
The driver swap was easy. Just cut a sub baffle from Masonite to fit the existing cut out.
Peter
How are you feeling the W frame bass is working compared to the ripoles you use with the Apogees?
The ripoles with the 10" Dayton subs dig deeper than the W frame GRS woofers, but the latter seems to blend better with the lower midrange driver. The output of the ripoles is very low and needs a decent amp and EQ.
For my smallish room(and I know yours is a little smaller) I wanted to reduce the overall physical size of the enclosures, just for aesthetics, and the ripoles, when used with the Apogee ribbon and OB lower mid driver became a little cumbersome for my liking. Sounded great though.
Maybe the Dayton subs in stereo W frames would be an improvement, but the cost of two additional woofers was outside my budget.
I built another mock up pair with the Apogee ribbons sitting on top of Dayton RS180 7" woofer in a small sealed box. Only 8" wide and less than 48" high. Still in progress and will try them with the ripoles stuffed in an out of sight location if possible. Love that 26" ribbon.
How is your project progressing, Bill?
Peter
For my smallish room(and I know yours is a little smaller) I wanted to reduce the overall physical size of the enclosures, just for aesthetics, and the ripoles, when used with the Apogee ribbon and OB lower mid driver became a little cumbersome for my liking. Sounded great though.
Maybe the Dayton subs in stereo W frames would be an improvement, but the cost of two additional woofers was outside my budget.
I built another mock up pair with the Apogee ribbons sitting on top of Dayton RS180 7" woofer in a small sealed box. Only 8" wide and less than 48" high. Still in progress and will try them with the ripoles stuffed in an out of sight location if possible. Love that 26" ribbon.
How is your project progressing, Bill?
Peter