chrisb,
again, I don't have drawings or pictures, guess I could borrow a camera from someone.
The sealed subs are basically Bag End 18s
http://www.bagend.com/bagend/s18e-i.htm
I bought the 4 of the drivers new (one pair is enough though),
and built cabs to the internal dimensions above, including more bracing.
Then built them into "Bag End Tables" by adding oak legs, just high enough to slightly more than = sd when in a corner.
Don't remember what that was easy enough to figure though for whatever size driver. They're in the other end of the state now, I'll be there over the weekend, can check then.
And again, the 12" tapped horns outperform the 18" sealed boxes...
Plenty of info on lots of them in the tapped horn thread in the subwoofer section of this forum.
r
edit; add; the down-firing subs do need to fire onto a solid floor!
Hard tiled concrete works great, w/ sand-filled walls.
Hard-wood floors makes most of the house resonate & vibrate...
again, I don't have drawings or pictures, guess I could borrow a camera from someone.
The sealed subs are basically Bag End 18s
http://www.bagend.com/bagend/s18e-i.htm
I bought the 4 of the drivers new (one pair is enough though),
and built cabs to the internal dimensions above, including more bracing.
Then built them into "Bag End Tables" by adding oak legs, just high enough to slightly more than = sd when in a corner.
Don't remember what that was easy enough to figure though for whatever size driver. They're in the other end of the state now, I'll be there over the weekend, can check then.
And again, the 12" tapped horns outperform the 18" sealed boxes...
Plenty of info on lots of them in the tapped horn thread in the subwoofer section of this forum.
r
edit; add; the down-firing subs do need to fire onto a solid floor!
Hard tiled concrete works great, w/ sand-filled walls.
Hard-wood floors makes most of the house resonate & vibrate...
forgot:
If you want to used sealed boxes, you can get the Linkwitz Transform circuit pcbs from Rod Elliott http://sound.westhost.com/pcb/pricelist.html Order code: P71; for a whole lot less than bag end.
A lot more interesting stuff on the site too!
If you want to used sealed boxes, you can get the Linkwitz Transform circuit pcbs from Rod Elliott http://sound.westhost.com/pcb/pricelist.html Order code: P71; for a whole lot less than bag end.
A lot more interesting stuff on the site too!
Something showed up today, which was quite a surprise actually considering Dave and I both thought they were still sitting in Customs at the border. Apparently not! LOL
Something I never knew, but upon closer inspection, I noticed that the EnABLe process is also performed on the mid-section of the cone in an almost completely invisible paint. If you look closely, you can see it in the second and third picture.
As for my initial impressions, they were rather dull and honky sounding. Of course, this was right out of the box, and considering the weather Dave has been having up there in Canada, it's no wonder that these little drivers most likely stiffened back up from all the freezing cold.
However, I have had them up and running for the past hour and they now sound much better. The drivers are connected directly to the SI T-amp with no BSC and they already sound just as good as the well broken-in FE103E's I have. The treble is back, the midrange honk is pushed so far back it's barely noticeable, and the sweet spot seems to be much broader.
If these buggers are anything like their little brothers (the 103's), they are only going to get better as the hours roll on by.
Anywho, on with some pictures...
Something I never knew, but upon closer inspection, I noticed that the EnABLe process is also performed on the mid-section of the cone in an almost completely invisible paint. If you look closely, you can see it in the second and third picture.
As for my initial impressions, they were rather dull and honky sounding. Of course, this was right out of the box, and considering the weather Dave has been having up there in Canada, it's no wonder that these little drivers most likely stiffened back up from all the freezing cold.
However, I have had them up and running for the past hour and they now sound much better. The drivers are connected directly to the SI T-amp with no BSC and they already sound just as good as the well broken-in FE103E's I have. The treble is back, the midrange honk is pushed so far back it's barely noticeable, and the sweet spot seems to be much broader.
If these buggers are anything like their little brothers (the 103's), they are only going to get better as the hours roll on by.
Anywho, on with some pictures...
Well I've had these running non-stop for over 2 hours now (almost 3 hours by the time I get done writing this post). These things are blowing away every speaker in the house! This is not an exaggeration either!
They are no where near being in the right enclosures, but I'm seriously beginning to doubt that.
I understand the point behind using these in horns to keep the efficiency up, reduce cone movement and help produce a decent amount of bass out of a single, small driver. There are several things that keep bugging about horns though. One is that some people complain about the slight delay in sound between the mouth of the horn and the face of the driver, and second, the slight coloration or hump or whatever you want to call it in the 200-400Hz range due to I'm guessing the size of the CC.
The reason I'm doubting that these are in wrong enclosures is the fact that from about 100Hz on up, they are doing EVERYTHING right! Yes, they are still mounted in cardboard boxes which measure 0.50cf, but they are stuffed with poly-fill to the point of being aperiodically loaded. I honestly believe that is the key to their success.
Since they are getting plenty of help from 100Hz down, and they have completely tamed themselves throughout their BW, they do not need any BSC or EQ'ing. Plus they are placed somewhat close into the corners, so I'm sure that's also helping to reduce the need for BSC.
I think that if I build simple, solid small-ish aperiodic enclosures for them, that's all they'll need. Then I can build a pair of bass augmentation units for them that double as bases/stands for them.
BTW, I now know what you all mean by "downward dynamics". Holy cow!
I would love one of you guys to take these drivers, put them in similarly tuned/loaded enclosures to what I have (not necessarily cardboard boxes), add some bass support under 100Hz, and see what you think.
At this point, I am completely and utterly amazed at the FE126eN drivers!
They are no where near being in the right enclosures, but I'm seriously beginning to doubt that.
I understand the point behind using these in horns to keep the efficiency up, reduce cone movement and help produce a decent amount of bass out of a single, small driver. There are several things that keep bugging about horns though. One is that some people complain about the slight delay in sound between the mouth of the horn and the face of the driver, and second, the slight coloration or hump or whatever you want to call it in the 200-400Hz range due to I'm guessing the size of the CC.
The reason I'm doubting that these are in wrong enclosures is the fact that from about 100Hz on up, they are doing EVERYTHING right! Yes, they are still mounted in cardboard boxes which measure 0.50cf, but they are stuffed with poly-fill to the point of being aperiodically loaded. I honestly believe that is the key to their success.
Since they are getting plenty of help from 100Hz down, and they have completely tamed themselves throughout their BW, they do not need any BSC or EQ'ing. Plus they are placed somewhat close into the corners, so I'm sure that's also helping to reduce the need for BSC.
I think that if I build simple, solid small-ish aperiodic enclosures for them, that's all they'll need. Then I can build a pair of bass augmentation units for them that double as bases/stands for them.
BTW, I now know what you all mean by "downward dynamics". Holy cow!
I would love one of you guys to take these drivers, put them in similarly tuned/loaded enclosures to what I have (not necessarily cardboard boxes), add some bass support under 100Hz, and see what you think.
At this point, I am completely and utterly amazed at the FE126eN drivers!
chops said:
That is called a stealth ring (you'll note that annotation in your driver matching print-out). The need for this varies from cone to cone. soongsc discovered this.
In the case of the 126/127eN it happens to coincide with the ottom ring of the trifoil pattern so helps further with the peaky bits.
dave
chops said:
Hey Charles... you been reading my email? That is a quote out of a mail i got from rjbond3rd.
🙂
dave
planet10 said:
So I see. I didn't know about that print-out until you mentioned it. I then went hunting for it and found it! LOL
BTW, what exactly does that trifoil pattern do? I've read a lot about the EnABLe process, cone coating, basket and magnet treatment, but there's not a whole lot of info out there on the trifoil pattern.
planet10 said:
I'm not too sure what I'm going to do yet for an enclosure. I do know that because of all the poly-stuffing, it virtually eliminates any and all reflections within the enclosure which is most likely the cause for the seamlessly natural and open sound I'm getting from both the 103's and 126's. I don't want to screw that up, which unfortunately the horns seem to do to a point.
And Dave, I'm not liking these drivers... I'm loving them!
planet10 said:
No sir... Not reading anyone's emails but my own. I have a feeling that when more people experience your treated drivers, you're going to be hearing that same exact quote from most of them.
Honestly, all the way up to receiving these drivers and even after hearing them within the first hour, I was highly doubting the entire driver treatment process. I know how some people like to embellish on things to make them seem so much better than the rest, blah, blah, blah...
Well, I can now stand here and openly admit, ALL of what you read about Dave's treated drivers is 100% true and can clearly be heard. I am a true believer now! 😀
Well I've been racking ideas around in my head for a while now, and think I have come up with a plan...
They are still in the design stage and the goal is to completely kill the possibility of the back wave of the driver ever reaching the cone's surface again. It will incorporate 1.5" thick walls and baffle, blocks of wood of various lengths on all walls except for the baffle, a deflector shield directly behind the driver, all internals covered in felt, and a rectangle vent on the front baffle, somewhere below the driver.
We have a new type of foam over at work that I think I'm going to try for stuffing the enclosure. It's flexible yet rigid enough to hold its own shape. It comes in 4' long edges with the widest part being roughly 4" thick.
When I get done building my aperiodic loaded enclosures, they are going to be huge on the outside, but remain close to 0.50cf on the inside, maybe a tad bit more, but not much.
Speaking of the outside, the baffle is going to be chamfered like the Fonken's, except on all four sides. The only other thing I'm going to mention about the outside is that it's going to also involve some leather and aluminum.
I wouldn't doubt it one bit if these things don't turn out weighing in around 30-40 lbs each when done! After that will come the fun of designing and building matching bass augmentation stands for them!
They are still in the design stage and the goal is to completely kill the possibility of the back wave of the driver ever reaching the cone's surface again. It will incorporate 1.5" thick walls and baffle, blocks of wood of various lengths on all walls except for the baffle, a deflector shield directly behind the driver, all internals covered in felt, and a rectangle vent on the front baffle, somewhere below the driver.
We have a new type of foam over at work that I think I'm going to try for stuffing the enclosure. It's flexible yet rigid enough to hold its own shape. It comes in 4' long edges with the widest part being roughly 4" thick.
When I get done building my aperiodic loaded enclosures, they are going to be huge on the outside, but remain close to 0.50cf on the inside, maybe a tad bit more, but not much.
Speaking of the outside, the baffle is going to be chamfered like the Fonken's, except on all four sides. The only other thing I'm going to mention about the outside is that it's going to also involve some leather and aluminum.
I wouldn't doubt it one bit if these things don't turn out weighing in around 30-40 lbs each when done! After that will come the fun of designing and building matching bass augmentation stands for them!
Hmm.. I guess no one has anything to say about my enclosure design... Oh well.
At any rate, I have been playing these drivers continuously since I received them on the 20th of last month. They now have a fair amount of hours on them, so today I finally decided to "open them up" some.
HOLY %*#$!!!
I have been playing Depeche Mode - Songs of Faith and Devotion. It's almost done playing for the 3rd time now and I had to force myself away to write about this.
What I am hearing is truly effortless, ultra clean, detailed, and very dynamic music at its best. I pulled out my SPL meter just to see what's going on, and I'm getting sustained levels between 96-98dB with peaks hitting 102-103dB!
This is insane! Two little 4.5" drivers and $30 of 5 watt ti-path power shouldn't be capable of such things, but they are doing it, with ease! And with my 8" Vifa's kicking in on the bottom from 120Hz and below, it's a very lethal combination, and they're only getting 50 watts each!
The absolutely amazing thing about all of this is the fact the 126eN's do not get out of control, harsh, thin, painful or downright nasty at all. They just get louder and remain totally clean and clear. Equally amazing is that original, stock little SI T-amp.
This little system officially outperforms my main system as far as music reproduction is concerned!... By a long shot!
At any rate, I have been playing these drivers continuously since I received them on the 20th of last month. They now have a fair amount of hours on them, so today I finally decided to "open them up" some.
HOLY %*#$!!!
I have been playing Depeche Mode - Songs of Faith and Devotion. It's almost done playing for the 3rd time now and I had to force myself away to write about this.
What I am hearing is truly effortless, ultra clean, detailed, and very dynamic music at its best. I pulled out my SPL meter just to see what's going on, and I'm getting sustained levels between 96-98dB with peaks hitting 102-103dB!
This is insane! Two little 4.5" drivers and $30 of 5 watt ti-path power shouldn't be capable of such things, but they are doing it, with ease! And with my 8" Vifa's kicking in on the bottom from 120Hz and below, it's a very lethal combination, and they're only getting 50 watts each!
The absolutely amazing thing about all of this is the fact the 126eN's do not get out of control, harsh, thin, painful or downright nasty at all. They just get louder and remain totally clean and clear. Equally amazing is that original, stock little SI T-amp.
This little system officially outperforms my main system as far as music reproduction is concerned!... By a long shot!
Hi chops, I'm interested! I think we are on parallel paths. I have a box I call "bamboo forest" which is packed with strategically spaced felt-covered 1" dowels which makes the chamber fairly non-resonant, except at the Helmholtz resonance. After all that work, it's hard to say if it's a huge improvement (yet). I might have achieved something similar with just an ordinary well-braced cab (not sure, but anyway but it was fun and cheap to make).
Using a series of blocks inside is a cool idea but what I think it achieves is diffusion which would presumably result in an averaging of the standing waves across a broader bandwith (as opposed to a cube which would give you a narrow Q resonance). You'd still have the TL's primary resonance, I'd think (just guessing here).
Won't you have to apply some absorption to kill the backwave, or "transmit" it off somewhere? I'm speaking only as someone who tinkers, not as a person with knowledge. 🙂
Using a series of blocks inside is a cool idea but what I think it achieves is diffusion which would presumably result in an averaging of the standing waves across a broader bandwith (as opposed to a cube which would give you a narrow Q resonance). You'd still have the TL's primary resonance, I'd think (just guessing here).
Won't you have to apply some absorption to kill the backwave, or "transmit" it off somewhere? I'm speaking only as someone who tinkers, not as a person with knowledge. 🙂
All the internal surfaces of the enclosures will be covered in felt, even all of the little blocks and deflector shields (both sides of the shield). They will also be filled with that foam I was talking about earlier or traditional poly-fill, whichever I decide to go with.
I'm hoping in doing all of this will kill most of the internal sound, and to not reach the rear of the cone again. The enclosures themselves will be dead as rocks by the time I get done with them, that's for sure.
BTW, do you have any pics of your enclosures?
I'm hoping in doing all of this will kill most of the internal sound, and to not reach the rear of the cone again. The enclosures themselves will be dead as rocks by the time I get done with them, that's for sure.
BTW, do you have any pics of your enclosures?
chops said:
is it now appropriate to say WTYS? 😉
heck, these drivers even work well in a BLH
another great combo with these is the Kingrex T20U's USB input fed by lap top or other PC, or alternatively an iPod dock
Chops, my Saburo's with Planet10 FE126's just finished playing Solti's classic recording of Wagner's Siegfried at what seemed to be live performance levels in my listening room. No breaking up......the anvils rang and rang. Wagner out of 4.5 inch speakers!!!!!..,.....Impossible. It just happened in my living room. Swear TG!!!!!!!
chrisb said:
Probably a stupid question, but what's "WTYS"?
I do plan on getting the KingRex T-Rex T-20 actually. As of right now, I don't see a need for the USB version.
soundsinthestix said:
Oh trust me, I believe you completely! 😉
- Status
- Not open for further replies.