Well after much consideration, looking at all possibilities, what will and won't work in my room, how much I space I have to work with, and the amount of power I'm going to be running, I finally decided on a fully worked-over pair of FE126eNs' from Dave.
Once finished with my little 11' x 12' room, I will have it laid out specifically for the stereo. It will take a little bit of doing, but I'll get it done. I just need to get the time to do it. There's a lot of pooh in here! LOL
So why the FE126eN?...
Well, for one, it's pretty efficient at 93dB @ 1W/1M (about 92.5dB after the full Planet10 treatment on the cones), perfect for low powered SET tube and T-amps. It's small, requiring small enclosures better suited for my small room, and is optimized for horn loading.
My requirements are maximum efficiency, a very natural and open midrange, crisp, airy highs (without the need for tweeters), clean and accurate midbass down to around 80-100Hz, no need for circuitry inline with the drivers except maybe a Zobel network if needed, very clean, low distortion with peaks of 90dB+ and sustained output between 80-85dB+.
True sub-bass reproduction is of no concern with these guys as I will have true stereo subs to cover the lowest octaves. Most likely, these will be GR Research 12" servo subs in small sealed enclosures with the associated servo amps with built-in, fully adjustable crossover, phase and PEQ.
ATM, I am looking at Back Loaded Horn designs for these drivers as that's what they perform best in. What I'm currently looking at are the Frugal Horns and Austin A126 horns, both of which are corner loading horns, requiring them to be put into the corners of the room and allowing the room's walls and floor to be the final portion of the horns.
The Frugal Horn is a very nice, little design being not much bigger than my network server case! Only being 30.5" tall, this puts the driver center around 25" off the floor which isn't much higher than knee level! I don't know how well these would take to being raised 10" off the floor and used with a false floor. I'm sure it would take away some of the bass output, but then again, I would be using subs as well, so...
I'm also looking at the Austin A126. This horn is a bit larger, standing in at 41.5" tall which puts the driver center at 37.5". This would be a much better build for me as it already has the height I would need for my rather tall seating position, so no need to raise it off the floor. Another major plus of the A126 is that it looks extremely simple to build, even more so than the Frugal Horn.
There is only one little catch with the A126 as I have been told that it requires a "little bit more room". Although, I don't know what is meant by this, unless that just means it takes up a little bit more real estate. If that's the case, that shouldn't be an issue at all as I will have plenty of room all around the speakers in the desired corners.
So as of right now, I am heavily leaning towards the A126 BLH. I also have some pretty neat ideas for an integrated supraBaffle that also becomes the entire front baffle from head to toe! 😎
As always, your input, recommendations, suggestions will be greatly appreciated! 😉
Once finished with my little 11' x 12' room, I will have it laid out specifically for the stereo. It will take a little bit of doing, but I'll get it done. I just need to get the time to do it. There's a lot of pooh in here! LOL
So why the FE126eN?...
Well, for one, it's pretty efficient at 93dB @ 1W/1M (about 92.5dB after the full Planet10 treatment on the cones), perfect for low powered SET tube and T-amps. It's small, requiring small enclosures better suited for my small room, and is optimized for horn loading.
My requirements are maximum efficiency, a very natural and open midrange, crisp, airy highs (without the need for tweeters), clean and accurate midbass down to around 80-100Hz, no need for circuitry inline with the drivers except maybe a Zobel network if needed, very clean, low distortion with peaks of 90dB+ and sustained output between 80-85dB+.
True sub-bass reproduction is of no concern with these guys as I will have true stereo subs to cover the lowest octaves. Most likely, these will be GR Research 12" servo subs in small sealed enclosures with the associated servo amps with built-in, fully adjustable crossover, phase and PEQ.
ATM, I am looking at Back Loaded Horn designs for these drivers as that's what they perform best in. What I'm currently looking at are the Frugal Horns and Austin A126 horns, both of which are corner loading horns, requiring them to be put into the corners of the room and allowing the room's walls and floor to be the final portion of the horns.
The Frugal Horn is a very nice, little design being not much bigger than my network server case! Only being 30.5" tall, this puts the driver center around 25" off the floor which isn't much higher than knee level! I don't know how well these would take to being raised 10" off the floor and used with a false floor. I'm sure it would take away some of the bass output, but then again, I would be using subs as well, so...
I'm also looking at the Austin A126. This horn is a bit larger, standing in at 41.5" tall which puts the driver center at 37.5". This would be a much better build for me as it already has the height I would need for my rather tall seating position, so no need to raise it off the floor. Another major plus of the A126 is that it looks extremely simple to build, even more so than the Frugal Horn.
There is only one little catch with the A126 as I have been told that it requires a "little bit more room". Although, I don't know what is meant by this, unless that just means it takes up a little bit more real estate. If that's the case, that shouldn't be an issue at all as I will have plenty of room all around the speakers in the desired corners.
So as of right now, I am heavily leaning towards the A126 BLH. I also have some pretty neat ideas for an integrated supraBaffle that also becomes the entire front baffle from head to toe! 😎
As always, your input, recommendations, suggestions will be greatly appreciated! 😉
Chops: I'm running a pair of Frugels (126's), rm. approx.13' x 22' with vaulted ceiling. Unfortunately, room shape dictates no corner placement.I'm using a diy PP sub,x'overed @ around 80hz.
Much has been made of the height of driver(s)
Listening position is about 10'away. Raising the speaker fronts a few degrees easily places the drivers around ear height @ 10'.
Obviously nearfield would be problematic.
With both my SET and T amps, they throw a huge soundstage, and image both front to back and vertically like champs!
Don
Much has been made of the height of driver(s)
Listening position is about 10'away. Raising the speaker fronts a few degrees easily places the drivers around ear height @ 10'.
Obviously nearfield would be problematic.
With both my SET and T amps, they throw a huge soundstage, and image both front to back and vertically like champs!
Don
Howdy gentlemen,
Chops, an excellent choice of driver. I will definitely follow your build(s). My take is that the A126 is a no-compromise design and hence large (long path length etc.), but the Frugel-Horn is going to work for more people, space-wise. My wife loves the look of the Frugel-Horn but was not too keen on the (aesthetically similar!) A126, so I'll eventually build the FH.
Doorman, may I ask -- did you do the full Level 3 build?
Chops, an excellent choice of driver. I will definitely follow your build(s). My take is that the A126 is a no-compromise design and hence large (long path length etc.), but the Frugel-Horn is going to work for more people, space-wise. My wife loves the look of the Frugel-Horn but was not too keen on the (aesthetically similar!) A126, so I'll eventually build the FH.
Doorman, may I ask -- did you do the full Level 3 build?
rj:No,mine are the"level-0"rjbond3rd said:
(http://www.frugel-horn.com/gallery.html)
Scroll down to"Don Austin, Royston&etc.
Since the pic, I've gone to the 126's. A"Super-baffle" is coming as soon the temp. rises enough so I can use my shop comfortably again!
Don
Thanks!
When I first showed the plans to my wife (incl the "supra-baffle)
it was "uh, what ARE those things that look like stop-signs?!")
I figured I'd have to work them in gradually!
I'm looking for a new project, but would recommend the Frugels to anyone looking for a small BLH.
Don
When I first showed the plans to my wife (incl the "supra-baffle)
it was "uh, what ARE those things that look like stop-signs?!")
I figured I'd have to work them in gradually!
I'm looking for a new project, but would recommend the Frugels to anyone looking for a small BLH.
Don
doorman said:
Hi Don,
So how do the Frugal's match up to the DIY sub? Where is the sub located with regards to the Frugal's? If the match-up is good, I might just try using one sub myself as well.
I also notice that you have the horns pulled out about 15" or so from the rear wall. How does that work out for the overall sound as opposed to being up against the wall?
And yes, you do great work. I was just admiring those exact ones the other day without even knowing they were yours!
rjbond3rd said:
Thanks . It's funny though, if you followed my large FE103E thread, you know that I went through every of the "FE" series until I came all the way down to the little guys again. LOL
I honestly don't know what the advantages or disadvantages are going with either design. The main two reasons I'm going with the A126 is because if the easier build and that they stand much taller than the Frugal's.
Howdy chops, yeah so did I! I got almost every Fostex 8" made, then heard two 6.5" drivers and thought, hmm, these have interesting qualities. Then finally the 4.5" where I think I'll stay for awhile (given my room size). All in all, it wasn't terribly expensive though.
All that because my brain could not believe that a 4.5" could do anything "better" than a larger driver. They all sound good, just in different ways. 🙂 Try 'em all, chops!
If you can afforf the room, go with A126. They work fine against just a wall, will give a bit more versatility.
As it is a bit deeper and taller then FHG, the mouth is further away from driver so you need a tad more distance for bottom to integrate. We aren't talking much.
dave
As it is a bit deeper and taller then FHG, the mouth is further away from driver so you need a tad more distance for bottom to integrate. We aren't talking much.
dave
Chops: My sub is (another!) P-10design.
2, 7.5" drivers in a "push push"config.
They're off to the side, at the end of a sofa-
would have preferred 'em between the speakers , but SO says NO!
It integrates very well with the Frugels, however, I'm quick to point out my hearing is quite bad, not much left above 12 KH+/-,with a dash of tinnitus thrown in.
I'm forced to focus on things other than HF extension and ultimate detail.
PRAT, with very clear mids are my priorities now.
I enjoy these speakers a lot!
I'm also sure Dave's right about the A126's.
I may try a pair myself.
Don
2, 7.5" drivers in a "push push"config.
They're off to the side, at the end of a sofa-
would have preferred 'em between the speakers , but SO says NO!
It integrates very well with the Frugels, however, I'm quick to point out my hearing is quite bad, not much left above 12 KH+/-,with a dash of tinnitus thrown in.
I'm forced to focus on things other than HF extension and ultimate detail.
PRAT, with very clear mids are my priorities now.
I enjoy these speakers a lot!
I'm also sure Dave's right about the A126's.
I may try a pair myself.
Don
I'd like to chime in on the oft raised question of driver height - I think this can be one of those over-thought issues.
And of course your room/personal preferences are part of the calculus - for me the driver position in A126 was a little high in my small room (ceiling height is only 90").
With the particular stands I'm using with the Fonkens, the driver height is 29", and the FrugelHorns are 28". At a listening distance of approx 12ft to the recliner, or 16ft to the computer chair, and with my ears approx 36" off the floor in the fully relaxed position, neither of these sound "wrong"
However, as noted by mr doorman above, and others elsewhere, a couple of degrees up-tilt to the front of the box could easily raise the horizontal axis and image height to suite.
Charles, congrats on the decision - I'm sure you'll enjoy the A126 Horns - and don't be surprised that after you fire them up in the relatively small room, if you don't reconsider your need to add powered woofers.
And of course your room/personal preferences are part of the calculus - for me the driver position in A126 was a little high in my small room (ceiling height is only 90").
With the particular stands I'm using with the Fonkens, the driver height is 29", and the FrugelHorns are 28". At a listening distance of approx 12ft to the recliner, or 16ft to the computer chair, and with my ears approx 36" off the floor in the fully relaxed position, neither of these sound "wrong"
However, as noted by mr doorman above, and others elsewhere, a couple of degrees up-tilt to the front of the box could easily raise the horizontal axis and image height to suite.
Charles, congrats on the decision - I'm sure you'll enjoy the A126 Horns - and don't be surprised that after you fire them up in the relatively small room, if you don't reconsider your need to add powered woofers.
planet10 said:
So they don't exactly have to be in the corners? If that's the case, that will give a little "fine tuning" room. Thanks for the info Dave!
doorman said:
Sounds like a nice, simple setup. Just curious, what are the 7.5" drivers you're using and what kind of enclosure/tuning/power? Are they the CSS SDX7's? Also, what kind of power are you throwing at the Frugal's?
chrisb said:
Unfortunately, I don't have much room to work with so either way I look at it, I'm going to be sitting at a max of about 10' away from the speakers.
As for powered woofers, I'm sure I'll still need them. Maybe not for all music, but once I start spinning a pipe organ CD, well, you know how that goes. I could be wrong, but I doubt the A126's will have enough "oomph" for kick drums and such as well, but I guess I won't know for sure until I finally hear them. Personally, I can't wait!
😀
chops said:
Easttech woofers salvaged from Monsoon subwoofers. 2 fit in 1 ft^3. $40/pr while they last (also have some 9s -- they need a bigger box)
dave
I'm using a Decware Select SET , 2wpc, and a Virtue Audio T-amp.@ 30wpc.
W/Transcendent Sound GG (tubed)pre.
The Select has enough in my room,for most of my listening.
The T-amp is new, and is still breaking in.
It's leagues better than a previous T-amp I was using.
It's a promising combination.
Don
W/Transcendent Sound GG (tubed)pre.
The Select has enough in my room,for most of my listening.
The T-amp is new, and is still breaking in.
It's leagues better than a previous T-amp I was using.
It's a promising combination.
Don
planet10 said:
Would the 9's fit in a floor standing box that would fit under a pair of Fonkens?
Thanks,
Jeff
vinylkid58 said:
Maintaining the Fonken's footprint gives you about a ft^3 to work with. The cabs we came up for for the 9s were 2.8 & 3.8 ft^3 for a PP pair.
You might squeeze 1 into a stand. I never looked at them with that in mind. I have a FonkenWoof drawn for a pair of the 7s PP.
dave
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