WVL, you might want to checkout this supplier:
http://www.af.nl
They have lignaflex, but also kuiperflex, which is the same, but they claim its more beautiful and cheaper.
http://www.af.nl
They have lignaflex, but also kuiperflex, which is the same, but they claim its more beautiful and cheaper.
WVL said:
Hmm, I have to admit I'm not a big fan of hole-cutting drils of big sizes, haven't had much success with them. I think a router and some sort of jig would be a better choice.
Kermit said:
Don't forget I'll have to cut almost 500 holes!! I already thought of a good way to hold slabs while drilling them :
I'll take a piece of wood and cut a square hole, so a slab will just fit in, then I'll use glue-clamps (or whatchucallit) to fasten this to my column-drill, so the drill will be exactly in the middle.. Then all you have to do is put a a slab in the hole, and drill.. But this will only work if the slabs are the same size 🙁
Problem is that I'd want to make the size of each slab a bit different.. the shape I posted earlier is thinner on top, broader at the bottom. However this will force me to _considerable_ more time for cutting and drilling... I can't think of a way to do it fast, if all the slabs are different! any ideas? drilling the angle-alignment hole is easy for both same sized slabs and different sized slabs.
My guess is that I could cut 500 slabs and drill all of them in just one day, if they're the same size.
If I'd decide to make them all different, it will be weeks of work.. 🙁
I think you are on the right track
Jigs. Your success on this project will probably only be as good as the jigs you design to build them. In the twisted speakers mentioned above, the discussion of jigs went on for a long while until it worked.
With that in mind, I am pretty empty on good ideas on how to cut your individual slabs to the correct size... the differences will be 1mm at most. Short of a CNC machine, that seems like a great deal of setup work for each cut - and you are talking about 500 total slabs for both speakers. They have to be square, so thats four cuts... If you spend only 2 min. each, that is like 67 hours of cuts.
As a completely absurd idea, how about some sort of lathe setup using a router to cut the shape?
Jigs. Your success on this project will probably only be as good as the jigs you design to build them. In the twisted speakers mentioned above, the discussion of jigs went on for a long while until it worked.
With that in mind, I am pretty empty on good ideas on how to cut your individual slabs to the correct size... the differences will be 1mm at most. Short of a CNC machine, that seems like a great deal of setup work for each cut - and you are talking about 500 total slabs for both speakers. They have to be square, so thats four cuts... If you spend only 2 min. each, that is like 67 hours of cuts.
As a completely absurd idea, how about some sort of lathe setup using a router to cut the shape?
I guess I'll be making it from the same size of slabs.. that will only be 12 cuts to make 32 slabs.. and I only have to adjust my sawblade once..
500 slabs make for 190 cuts or so.. pretty easy to do in one day.
500 slabs make for 190 cuts or so.. pretty easy to do in one day.
Some thoughts
Here's some of my thoughts for the problem of cutting the pieces and drilling.
My first thought is to start by cutting all of the pieces the same size. (Don't worry, I'll get to the sizes in a minute) That way your drilling goes quickly. Then, when the center hole has been drilled in all of the them, you next work on a jig to cut the pieces smaller. One thought would be to build a sled on the table saw with stops every mm, roughly (or whatever it is you want to decrease the size by. What immediately comes to mind is a sled I saw for cutting box joints. It had a stop mounted on a piece of all-thread with a large round wooden "knob" on the end. Turning the knob a certain distance moved the stop a certain distance. Not too hard to figure out. (x degrees amounts to x mm of movement) This way, there's no saw blade adjustments at all, just a sled that keeps moving the stop away or closer to the blade.
Let me know if this sounds like something you'd like to try, I think there's info on the web somewhere about building the jig. (Try a search for box joint jigs)
Here's some of my thoughts for the problem of cutting the pieces and drilling.
My first thought is to start by cutting all of the pieces the same size. (Don't worry, I'll get to the sizes in a minute) That way your drilling goes quickly. Then, when the center hole has been drilled in all of the them, you next work on a jig to cut the pieces smaller. One thought would be to build a sled on the table saw with stops every mm, roughly (or whatever it is you want to decrease the size by. What immediately comes to mind is a sled I saw for cutting box joints. It had a stop mounted on a piece of all-thread with a large round wooden "knob" on the end. Turning the knob a certain distance moved the stop a certain distance. Not too hard to figure out. (x degrees amounts to x mm of movement) This way, there's no saw blade adjustments at all, just a sled that keeps moving the stop away or closer to the blade.
Let me know if this sounds like something you'd like to try, I think there's info on the web somewhere about building the jig. (Try a search for box joint jigs)
Good idea on first cutting them all the same size for drilling!! I'd never thought of that! I was stuck in my mind about first cutting them to size THEN drilling.. This solves at least one problem!
Nice
I do have such a stop-thingy at the workshop.. dunno how easy it is to adjust it to size...
maybe I'll get a better idea to cut them to the right size.. maybe thinking of a way to use the hole I drilled as a tool for cutting them to size.. gotta sleep over this..
Nice
I do have such a stop-thingy at the workshop.. dunno how easy it is to adjust it to size...
maybe I'll get a better idea to cut them to the right size.. maybe thinking of a way to use the hole I drilled as a tool for cutting them to size.. gotta sleep over this..
Another possibility would be to drill 2 alignment hols, insted of one. The second one exactly oposit of the other. Then you make a jig simply by putting two "pins" in a plate. Find the center half way between the to pins and aligning it with your drill. Then simply load each plate on to the two pins and cut away.
That way you only need one jig to cut all the diffrent sized plates.
That way you only need one jig to cut all the diffrent sized plates.
Kermit said:
I don't understand this one. My idea was to use the big hole to drill the alignment hole (see first post). How would having 2 alignment holes help to cut? the slab would be at a non 90' angle from the saw? Please explain in a different way? (or with a picture)?
WVL, you've got it right. You already have two holes. Use the big hole to align and, um, yeah. Good to go.
WVL said:
I ment to say cut the holes.
My last post was perhaps a bit hasty. First off, you’ll have to cut out all the square plates to the sizes you need. Mark out the centre of each plate, and make two alignment hols on opposite sides of the centre. Do exactly the same for the jig, and place two pins where the alignment holes would be. The two holes isn’t realy necessary, just to speed up the hole cutting and getting them properly cantered regardless off the size of the slab.
I think that would be easier then cutting all to the same size, want you have to trim all 4 sides then?
True.
Whenever I cut the slabs to one size first, THEN drill the hole, I'd have to adjust all 4 sides to get the right size of slab. Even worse is that I have to make 2 adjustments to the saw-slide as well.. let's say I have to cut of .5 cm of each side of a 10 cm slab.. first I'd have to adjust it to 9.5 cm, cut a side off, rotate 90', cut another side off, adjust to 9 cm, rotate, cut a side off, rotate, cut a side off... a lot more work!
When I cut them to size first, I only have to get 2 sides to the right size, as there's no centre-hole yet..
problem is how to _quickly_ align the different-sized slabs so the centre is just beneath the drill..
Anyone that has some more ideas?
Whenever I cut the slabs to one size first, THEN drill the hole, I'd have to adjust all 4 sides to get the right size of slab. Even worse is that I have to make 2 adjustments to the saw-slide as well.. let's say I have to cut of .5 cm of each side of a 10 cm slab.. first I'd have to adjust it to 9.5 cm, cut a side off, rotate 90', cut another side off, adjust to 9 cm, rotate, cut a side off, rotate, cut a side off... a lot more work!
When I cut them to size first, I only have to get 2 sides to the right size, as there's no centre-hole yet..
problem is how to _quickly_ align the different-sized slabs so the centre is just beneath the drill..
Anyone that has some more ideas?
problem is how to _quickly_ align the different-sized slabs so the centre is just beneath the drill..
Clearly, the fastest way to align the slabs for drilling the holes is to cut them the same size, and use your clamp jig to hold them at the drill press.
When you then cut them to (final) size on the table saw, each slab only needs one small adjustment for the cut, using the rip guide, not an index on the slide... take a little (or any amount) off each side and the slab remains square.
I see you've gotten excited about flexible veneer, but keep in mind that even as flexible as writing paper is, it is not flexible enough to bend in the shape you want. I don't want to sound negative, I like your design idea as I stated earlier, but bending is one thing, twisting _and_ bending is another.
Also, there are many details of just construction consideration here... many cuts, enough to dull blades and wear out bits, even the motors that drive them. This seems in many ways, like building a hundred sets of speakers. Do you have concerns about weight? Have you figured your total bill of materials?
Like I said, I don't want to sound negative. I'm a builder/cabinetmaker with 35 years experience, and happy to help if I can.
Clearly, the fastest way to align the slabs for drilling the holes is to cut them the same size, and use your clamp jig to hold them at the drill press.
When you then cut them to (final) size on the table saw, each slab only needs one small adjustment for the cut, using the rip guide, not an index on the slide... take a little (or any amount) off each side and the slab remains square.
I see you've gotten excited about flexible veneer, but keep in mind that even as flexible as writing paper is, it is not flexible enough to bend in the shape you want. I don't want to sound negative, I like your design idea as I stated earlier, but bending is one thing, twisting _and_ bending is another.
Also, there are many details of just construction consideration here... many cuts, enough to dull blades and wear out bits, even the motors that drive them. This seems in many ways, like building a hundred sets of speakers. Do you have concerns about weight? Have you figured your total bill of materials?
Like I said, I don't want to sound negative. I'm a builder/cabinetmaker with 35 years experience, and happy to help if I can.
@ X.onasis.. I guess I'll be trying it out with a large piece of paper before I buy the veneer.. If I can't get the paper in the right shape I might as well forgot about using the veneer. If veneering is not an option, I'll have to paint them. Haven't thought about the color yet though..
About material costs : I need about 200 euros of MDF wood, which I can buy at the local shop here, according to my calcs each speaker will have a total weight of about (dont be scared right now 🙂 _60_ kilos...
I'm not worried about the saw & drill-motors wearing out. The equipment I'm going to use is the property of our rowing-club, where we also make & repair our own boats. These things are huge, not the sort an amateur would have, but real pro-stuff..
I can sharpen the saws over there too. I don't care about sharpening the drill. I'm not going to need it afterwards :O.. total cost for the drill will be 50 EUR.
Furthermore I will need a lot of glue (I'm guessing about 4 bottles of wood-glue), total cost 20 EUR.. (I already have some of them)
an alignment-pin (already in my posession, for free, I chose an 8mm-diameter pin, big enough so I can fill up the hole with some epoxy later on)
a pipe to centre the pieces on - this is going to be hard!!!! I can only get the drills in 140, 146 and 152 mm, but I still haven't seen any pipes of these measurements anywhere 🙁(( I've been thinking some more about it, and I thought about using 40mm pipes instead, mounted on a board in a configuration like this :
...O
O O
...O
thus simulating a pipe with a diameter of 140, 146 or 152.. whatever I will chose.. (I already have a 40mm hole-saw around, and 40 mm pipe is not a problem to get, costs are nihil)
apart from this I will only need drivers and a x-over, both of which I have made no decisions on yet..
So I have thought about it a lot, and I'll do _a lot_ more thinking before I build anything..
Does anyone have a good idea to use all the circular 152 mm slabs for? Maybe I can make some nice pc-speakers from them?
edit : added .'s to the simulated pipe 😉 whitespace seems to disappear.
About material costs : I need about 200 euros of MDF wood, which I can buy at the local shop here, according to my calcs each speaker will have a total weight of about (dont be scared right now 🙂 _60_ kilos...
I'm not worried about the saw & drill-motors wearing out. The equipment I'm going to use is the property of our rowing-club, where we also make & repair our own boats. These things are huge, not the sort an amateur would have, but real pro-stuff..
I can sharpen the saws over there too. I don't care about sharpening the drill. I'm not going to need it afterwards :O.. total cost for the drill will be 50 EUR.
Furthermore I will need a lot of glue (I'm guessing about 4 bottles of wood-glue), total cost 20 EUR.. (I already have some of them)
an alignment-pin (already in my posession, for free, I chose an 8mm-diameter pin, big enough so I can fill up the hole with some epoxy later on)
a pipe to centre the pieces on - this is going to be hard!!!! I can only get the drills in 140, 146 and 152 mm, but I still haven't seen any pipes of these measurements anywhere 🙁(( I've been thinking some more about it, and I thought about using 40mm pipes instead, mounted on a board in a configuration like this :
...O
O O
...O
thus simulating a pipe with a diameter of 140, 146 or 152.. whatever I will chose.. (I already have a 40mm hole-saw around, and 40 mm pipe is not a problem to get, costs are nihil)
apart from this I will only need drivers and a x-over, both of which I have made no decisions on yet..
So I have thought about it a lot, and I'll do _a lot_ more thinking before I build anything..
Does anyone have a good idea to use all the circular 152 mm slabs for? Maybe I can make some nice pc-speakers from them?
edit : added .'s to the simulated pipe 😉 whitespace seems to disappear.
Do you have access to a bandsaw? or even better. what tools do you have? Size of tools.
This might help us dream up something.
This might help us dream up something.
Sanding Thick MDF Layers
Here's my 2 cents about sanding and finishing the speakers. If you use an angle grinder (like for automobiles) with some heavy grain sand paper on the wheel, then you can use some really thick MDF boards to save yourself a lot of time. I know of a guy who makes furniture as art and he builds great chairs out of layers of all sorts of wood. Then he uses a grinder to easily sand away the corners off of the layers - it works very well and leaves a relatively smooth surface that is easily fine sanded by hand or disc sander.
I agree that Bondo or a plastic filler would work well to cover your speakers if you wanted to. I'd definately recommend making the inside tube smooth using something heavy like Bondo or even fibreglas if you are okay working with it (it can be messy and dangerous if you don't wear a breather mask). As for the outside, I would probably stain it a light color if you make it out of plywood or paint it if you use MDF. Stained plywood looks SO nice when you do this layering method.
Someone had previously said that MDF dents easily once it is finished, but I think that if you apply an aerosol application of acryilic that it would look very nice and be very durable. I've done this on many projects with terrific results.
If you don't mind, I think that I might try to build one small speaker using your method of twisting layers. Let me know if that is okay with you.
Here's my 2 cents about sanding and finishing the speakers. If you use an angle grinder (like for automobiles) with some heavy grain sand paper on the wheel, then you can use some really thick MDF boards to save yourself a lot of time. I know of a guy who makes furniture as art and he builds great chairs out of layers of all sorts of wood. Then he uses a grinder to easily sand away the corners off of the layers - it works very well and leaves a relatively smooth surface that is easily fine sanded by hand or disc sander.
I agree that Bondo or a plastic filler would work well to cover your speakers if you wanted to. I'd definately recommend making the inside tube smooth using something heavy like Bondo or even fibreglas if you are okay working with it (it can be messy and dangerous if you don't wear a breather mask). As for the outside, I would probably stain it a light color if you make it out of plywood or paint it if you use MDF. Stained plywood looks SO nice when you do this layering method.
Someone had previously said that MDF dents easily once it is finished, but I think that if you apply an aerosol application of acryilic that it would look very nice and be very durable. I've done this on many projects with terrific results.
If you don't mind, I think that I might try to build one small speaker using your method of twisting layers. Let me know if that is okay with you.
Re: Sanding Thick MDF Layers
Interesting. I wonder if you think using a urethane based finish would also add damping qualities to the enclosure.
🙂ensen.
diylabs said:
Interesting. I wonder if you think using a urethane based finish would also add damping qualities to the enclosure.
🙂ensen.
More on acrylic coatings
I think that using a spray coating like that would do much to diffuse/dampen any high frequencies coming from the sub, creating a cleaner response from the cabinet. These cabinets will be so heavy that I doubt that much dampening would be needed though. I have no idea if a twisted tube has any acustic benefits, but it sure doesn't look cool, I think.
I think that using a spray coating like that would do much to diffuse/dampen any high frequencies coming from the sub, creating a cleaner response from the cabinet. These cabinets will be so heavy that I doubt that much dampening would be needed though. I have no idea if a twisted tube has any acustic benefits, but it sure doesn't look cool, I think.
Re: Sanding Thick MDF Layers
please do! the more experience the better!
Also, I will try to make some pictures of all the equipment, I do not know the correct english names for them..
btw, I can use fiberglass and epoxys and whatever, even carbon-stuff and kapton would be okay. I have lots 🙂
diylabs said:
please do! the more experience the better!
Also, I will try to make some pictures of all the equipment, I do not know the correct english names for them..
btw, I can use fiberglass and epoxys and whatever, even carbon-stuff and kapton would be okay. I have lots 🙂
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