Okay, so loads of really helpful chat there. Thanks again.
Looks like Pine is pretty widely used. Back it with MDF and you probably have a decent box.
Few other comments to address:
1. Source some timber from local sawmill etc rather than usual DIY stores. It's a good shout but I am time starved these days. I'm also a bit impatient too and want to get moving on the project. Not necessarily a great reason not to find nicer materials though.....
2. Comments on pine block board. Yeah, bang on. The pine boards I can lay my hands on locally are:
a. Pine furniture board (long lengths of pine butted, glued and planed). No joints across the grain, so, carefully finished, looks like solid pine planks. Does have knots. Wee bit soft and light. Not totally flat or consistent in thickness but not bad. On a bad day, does looks a bit Sauna.
b. Pine block board. This stuff is made from far nice pine but short staved all glued together. Heavier, flatter, no knots, generally more consistent. Only downside is that it looks a bit Ikea...... Beech block board has also crossed my mind (cheap, dense, regular). But smaller staves really amps up the Ikea look 🙁
I guess another advantage of the MDF approach that I'd not really consider previously is that it is relatively cheap/quick to knock up a prototype so check your design before committing hours to the fine quality joinery. If you do like them, only then do you veneer.
Hmmmm,maybe I do just need to face up to my veneering fears........
As a side topic, the new Wharfedale Denton and Linton 85 speakers get rave reviews and the designer insists the laminated MDF/chipboard material used in their enclosures is key to the sound........ So, chipboard/MDF/Veneer laminate sort of thing. Intriguing (to me at least).... Watch as I now veer off completely into a multi-material laminate veneered box instead.....
Looks like Pine is pretty widely used. Back it with MDF and you probably have a decent box.
Few other comments to address:
1. Source some timber from local sawmill etc rather than usual DIY stores. It's a good shout but I am time starved these days. I'm also a bit impatient too and want to get moving on the project. Not necessarily a great reason not to find nicer materials though.....
2. Comments on pine block board. Yeah, bang on. The pine boards I can lay my hands on locally are:
a. Pine furniture board (long lengths of pine butted, glued and planed). No joints across the grain, so, carefully finished, looks like solid pine planks. Does have knots. Wee bit soft and light. Not totally flat or consistent in thickness but not bad. On a bad day, does looks a bit Sauna.
b. Pine block board. This stuff is made from far nice pine but short staved all glued together. Heavier, flatter, no knots, generally more consistent. Only downside is that it looks a bit Ikea...... Beech block board has also crossed my mind (cheap, dense, regular). But smaller staves really amps up the Ikea look 🙁
I guess another advantage of the MDF approach that I'd not really consider previously is that it is relatively cheap/quick to knock up a prototype so check your design before committing hours to the fine quality joinery. If you do like them, only then do you veneer.
Hmmmm,maybe I do just need to face up to my veneering fears........
As a side topic, the new Wharfedale Denton and Linton 85 speakers get rave reviews and the designer insists the laminated MDF/chipboard material used in their enclosures is key to the sound........ So, chipboard/MDF/Veneer laminate sort of thing. Intriguing (to me at least).... Watch as I now veer off completely into a multi-material laminate veneered box instead.....
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There is a solution route to overcome the veneering issues. I am sure people would help with their practical advice.
If you've only used typical veneer, the seam-cutting, paper-taping, and glueing, on larger pieces is a pain. You might consider paper-backed veneer, which is generally available, comes in larger sheets and is easier to apply. MDF makes a wonderful substrate for any veneer.
If you're using the glued up pine boards, they've done a good job of not using boards with loose knots; you should find them tight. Even dory builders didn't worry about tight knots. If you ever find any loose ones, 5 minute epoxy is your friend.
I'd be cautious about bonding a layer of MDF to a layer of pine. The pine will not expand, or contract, along its length, or thickness, but will move across its width. The MDF will very marginally expand and contract in all directions. There is your conflict.
If you're using the glued up pine boards, they've done a good job of not using boards with loose knots; you should find them tight. Even dory builders didn't worry about tight knots. If you ever find any loose ones, 5 minute epoxy is your friend.
I'd be cautious about bonding a layer of MDF to a layer of pine. The pine will not expand, or contract, along its length, or thickness, but will move across its width. The MDF will very marginally expand and contract in all directions. There is your conflict.
One of the reasons the accountants like it. But, IMO, not a particularily good speaker building material.
dave
Another reason I prefer cement board; he wants to do a mock-up, glue up cement board panels and can 'veneer' with his original pine with no knot/whatever worries. Built outdoor speakers this way, though used planed down pine boards from old post Civil War barns, etc..
GM
I have done that and it works well. 3/4 inch BCX or CDX plywood (i.e. interior subfloor plywood) works real well for prototypes.
that's a mistake i made years ago but funny thing, sometimes out of necessity i still do...construction grade plywood with it's minimum number of ply's and loose requirements on inner layer voids can sound worse than an equivalent mdf box...and no i'm definitely not saying mdf is good for speaker building....on a cost of material basis for prototype builds, mdf is cheaper than equivalent thickness construction grade plywood.
and yep i like baltic birch, but if one shops for furniture grade plywood you can find multi layer stuff that's prettier then BB and cheaper for a finished build.
and yep i like baltic birch, but if one shops for furniture grade plywood you can find multi layer stuff that's prettier then BB and cheaper for a finished build.
pine-ply-mdf
Turk182:
I'm not saying that CDX sounds great, but it would do what he MIGHT need to do to test out his ideas. When I buy plywood (every month) I take a quick look through what is available at the 3 yards within a short distance of my house. There is always the issue with knots on one side, but I've never encountered a significant issue with voids. (Not saying it doesn't happen)
When I starting typing this, I walked 40' and looked at 8 or 10 samples of recent 3/4 material I bought. Some is 5 ply, some 7, etc. I also picked up some NOS 3/4 material that is 11 ply.
I've built a few boxes this way and ended up keeping them, and over-laying with another material anyway. It just depends on how much a person wants to spend, how handy they are, how much tolerance for wasting time, etc. I'd certainly work with 3/4 ply before messing around with cement board. One last comment: Our local supplier has small ply boards, 1/2" thick, 2' x 3' Baltic Birch for $3.99 per board. They are small enough you can get a pretty good idea if they have voids, and can go through a whole stack in minutes if you choose. Cheap, easy to work with, etc.
I like ply, don't like MDF.
Turk182:
I'm not saying that CDX sounds great, but it would do what he MIGHT need to do to test out his ideas. When I buy plywood (every month) I take a quick look through what is available at the 3 yards within a short distance of my house. There is always the issue with knots on one side, but I've never encountered a significant issue with voids. (Not saying it doesn't happen)
When I starting typing this, I walked 40' and looked at 8 or 10 samples of recent 3/4 material I bought. Some is 5 ply, some 7, etc. I also picked up some NOS 3/4 material that is 11 ply.
I've built a few boxes this way and ended up keeping them, and over-laying with another material anyway. It just depends on how much a person wants to spend, how handy they are, how much tolerance for wasting time, etc. I'd certainly work with 3/4 ply before messing around with cement board. One last comment: Our local supplier has small ply boards, 1/2" thick, 2' x 3' Baltic Birch for $3.99 per board. They are small enough you can get a pretty good idea if they have voids, and can go through a whole stack in minutes if you choose. Cheap, easy to work with, etc.
I like ply, don't like MDF.
cutting anything pressure treated scares me especially if i don't have a mask and good ventilation and mdf dust is just as caustic as it gets, so warrants the same caution.
i'm all for alternate materials and if i can re or up cycle material for something i'm making all the better, it's sometime an exercise in cost vs suitability combined with additional labor though.
the 11 ply you came across what type of wood? if it a hardwood,bonus!!
i'm all for alternate materials and if i can re or up cycle material for something i'm making all the better, it's sometime an exercise in cost vs suitability combined with additional labor though.
the 11 ply you came across what type of wood? if it a hardwood,bonus!!