I have a Marantz SE version which uses the same main board.
All the PSU and bypass caps were Elna Cerafine and the DAC was the TDA1541 S
It sounds completely different to the 'standard' Philips board - more open with loads more detail.
Doing simple things like changing the phono sockets also helps.
Andy
All the PSU and bypass caps were Elna Cerafine and the DAC was the TDA1541 S
It sounds completely different to the 'standard' Philips board - more open with loads more detail.
Doing simple things like changing the phono sockets also helps.
Andy
Yes, upgrade to 1541A at least. I have both SAA7220P/A and /B, and the difference is subtle. So I suspect the difference is in the DAC.
However, there would be some minor mods required (unless the board was made upwards compatible). You'll need a 470pF cap across (I think, check the datasheet) pins 16 and 17, and I think the inputs are slightly different (I think the non-A has a SYS CLK input to it, whereas its missing on the A version) I could be wrong on that last fact, so check the datasheets of the two chips.
Then, you'll be able to upgrade to a TDA1541A S2 double crown, and let me know if its worth it 😉
But seriously, it would be a worthy upgrade, and fairly cheap to do.
And, I think you should be able to get the detail out of the DAC chip.
Cheers,
Phil
However, there would be some minor mods required (unless the board was made upwards compatible). You'll need a 470pF cap across (I think, check the datasheet) pins 16 and 17, and I think the inputs are slightly different (I think the non-A has a SYS CLK input to it, whereas its missing on the A version) I could be wrong on that last fact, so check the datasheets of the two chips.
Then, you'll be able to upgrade to a TDA1541A S2 double crown, and let me know if its worth it 😉
But seriously, it would be a worthy upgrade, and fairly cheap to do.
And, I think you should be able to get the detail out of the DAC chip.
Cheers,
Phil
I have a cd650, I made a shunt reg and used a tent crystal, biggest improvement. A friend said throw it away, after the clock, and LM6172 upgrade he couldnt believe it was the same player.
better decoupling caps was a good upgrade too.
better decoupling caps was a good upgrade too.
philpoole said:
The TDA1541A S2 in my CD880 makes sweet music 😀
Yes, I know they fetch ridiculous prices but if you're into the TDA1541 sound, it's an itch you've just got to scratch 😀
I mod lots of cd players from old to brand new and the older stuff has so much more to give.
The biggest improvements with this old TDA set up comes from using nice regs/psus on the dac and saa chip and of course a clock.
Brent
The biggest improvements with this old TDA set up comes from using nice regs/psus on the dac and saa chip and of course a clock.
Brent
The cd 650 is a sort of combination of different other types. Decoder board i have also in a magnavox. Servo board is as 640/660. Nice you have a remote receiver in it. It has a cdm4, isn't it? The belt has often to be replaced
I just got the parts for a double shunt ps for 7210/7220. Wil build this shunt:
(Rudolf Meyers schematic) : http://home.hccnet.nl/r.r.meijer/cdd.html
Yesterday i solved the clock remains issues on my CD880. I fitted a Tent clock with a Flee PS. It has to build in nicely though. Will isolate the separate I/V board and the clock with copper or metal.
I just got the parts for a double shunt ps for 7210/7220. Wil build this shunt:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
(Rudolf Meyers schematic) : http://home.hccnet.nl/r.r.meijer/cdd.html
Yesterday i solved the clock remains issues on my CD880. I fitted a Tent clock with a Flee PS. It has to build in nicely though. Will isolate the separate I/V board and the clock with copper or metal.
There is a magnavox version; cdb650, actually mine is a magnavox. Transport is cdm2.
It's not really a combination, but more the top of the line around 1986. With FTS and an extra filtered output (one more opamp :-(
You would not say top of the line, looking at the case
It's not really a combination, but more the top of the line around 1986. With FTS and an extra filtered output (one more opamp :-(
You would not say top of the line, looking at the case
I have 2 cdb650 players. the most dramatic improvement for me was throwing out that Ne5532 and replacing the electrolytic output coupling caps . mine have Ad847 installed if I remember correctly. and yes they do go through tray drive belts.
Evening folks,
I've been at it. I've just done the following:
* Glued 3 wooden cones to chassis
* Stuck bitumen damping on lid
* Changed main PSU diodes to schottky (+removed bypass SMDs)
* Changed op-amps for turned pin sockets & LM4562 op-amps
* Changed (x4) opa decouplers for 220/35 Rubycon ZA
* Reinstated DC blocking caps (Mundorf MKP 3.3uF)
* Bypassed output resistors and muting (no loud noises!)
I'll state the obvious about sonics - totally opened the sound up, and it has got a touch brighter sounding. I'll comment more when I've let it warm up and settle down.
I'd say it's approaching "high-end" already. Some proper regulators and a new clock should get us somewhere very pleasing. I have some Sercal S Powers and Audiocom Super Regulators to drop in.
I took some pics if anyone's interested.
Simon
I've been at it. I've just done the following:
* Glued 3 wooden cones to chassis
* Stuck bitumen damping on lid
* Changed main PSU diodes to schottky (+removed bypass SMDs)
* Changed op-amps for turned pin sockets & LM4562 op-amps
* Changed (x4) opa decouplers for 220/35 Rubycon ZA
* Reinstated DC blocking caps (Mundorf MKP 3.3uF)
* Bypassed output resistors and muting (no loud noises!)
I'll state the obvious about sonics - totally opened the sound up, and it has got a touch brighter sounding. I'll comment more when I've let it warm up and settle down.
I'd say it's approaching "high-end" already. Some proper regulators and a new clock should get us somewhere very pleasing. I have some Sercal S Powers and Audiocom Super Regulators to drop in.
I took some pics if anyone's interested.
Simon
- That's possibly you still on a high after the excitement of hearing your latest mods, BUT, after the CD63 I was also surprised how well TDA1514a sounds with so few mods.
My DAC (I think) sounds great, and its just made on stripboard, which surprises me. I doubt I'd get as promising results from scratchbuilding an SM5842 DAC on stripboard.
Nice mods.
How do you like the sound of the LM4562?
If you want i show how i solved the flimsy cabinet from my cd660 experiment.
How do you like the sound of the LM4562?
If you want i show how i solved the flimsy cabinet from my cd660 experiment.
philpoole said:
Hi Phil,
Yep, I posted soon after doing mods so was very excited (never done so much at once and had a player still work before). Perhaps I'm confusing "high end" for "makes music" 😉
The high-end detail retrieval and clarity are still nowhere to be seen, but what did we expect after £30+ of parts swaps and mechanical tweeks?
I'll see if I can afford a clock shortly and, if not, I'll at least get the SAA chip regulated separately.
Once again though, the sound is wonderful. It's not shut in and dull like the stock player, but provides a pleasing and informative account of the recording. Top end detail is the main thing slightly lacking now.
But keep in mind my reference point is a Marantz CD63KI with about £400 spent on it (6 low noise regulators, extra supplies, discrete output section, two clocks etc.) With some of those parts fed into this I suspect it could start to approach the same detail and clarity of that machine, but with more character and bass (1541 sound).
Simon
tubee said:
Thanks 😎
I love the 4562, as much as anyone can love an op-amp. Compared to my also-favoured OPA2134 or OPA627BP the sound is more open and detailed. I have A-B'd a player using 4562 against one using a discrete FET stage and the 4562 had the same sonic character, essentially. It didn't have the same bass-weight or dynamics and you can pick which player is which (blindly I might add) from these traits alone. As for graph-boy rubbish like NE5532, the harsh and nasty OPA2604 or gritty LM6172 - it smokes 'em! (tests done as pre-amp and output of CD63KI)
I would love to know what you did with your cabinet tubee! 😀
Simon
Yes, tubee, show us your cabinet 🙂
For IV, I really like the 6172, perhaps more than the 4562, but I can see how it can be a bit harsh.
For preamps and buffer, I suspect the 4562 would win hands down.
For IV, I really like the 6172, perhaps more than the 4562, but I can see how it can be a bit harsh.
For preamps and buffer, I suspect the 4562 would win hands down.
Well, i did nothing with the original cabinet. Yes scavenged parts off it😀
Encouraged by Simons cd650's mod i have pulled my never ending stuff also from the attic.
This is how my workbench looks like right now:
Diy cdp with cd660 pcb's, removed 7220/1541, modded cdm2 (lead on cdm, pre-amp pcb underneath cdm, cdm base in rubber stand-offs, clamp dampened)
Experimental PCM56 non-os dacs with I2S glue logic, passive I/V and Sovtek 6922 tube buffer, Tent XO on Flea ps with NE5531 reg. opamp.
Case is made from different sizes MDF, inner lined with 2mm non-ROHS plumbum 😀 and bottom plate is 5mm thick acryllic sheet. Stands on rubber-isolated feet, with an O-ring as groundplate. Top plate is U shaped and fits exactly between the veneered MDF sidepanels
But unfortunately i have a huge hum with the music. Should buy a decent HT x-former.
Encouraged by Simons cd650's mod i have pulled my never ending stuff also from the attic.
This is how my workbench looks like right now:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Diy cdp with cd660 pcb's, removed 7220/1541, modded cdm2 (lead on cdm, pre-amp pcb underneath cdm, cdm base in rubber stand-offs, clamp dampened)
Experimental PCM56 non-os dacs with I2S glue logic, passive I/V and Sovtek 6922 tube buffer, Tent XO on Flea ps with NE5531 reg. opamp.
Case is made from different sizes MDF, inner lined with 2mm non-ROHS plumbum 😀 and bottom plate is 5mm thick acryllic sheet. Stands on rubber-isolated feet, with an O-ring as groundplate. Top plate is U shaped and fits exactly between the veneered MDF sidepanels
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
But unfortunately i have a huge hum with the music. Should buy a decent HT x-former.
Tubee, looks like you've had fun.
Has there been any acoustic benefit from rehousing it?
I suppose it will be deadened by the woodwork.
I've had a bit of hum recently on my setup, but I think its mainly earthing problems.
Do you prefer the PCM56 to the TDA1541? I'm thinking of one day upgrading to PCM63 (if I can ever find two cheap enough).
Oooh, I'm dragging this off thread already (sorry).
Has there been any acoustic benefit from rehousing it?
I suppose it will be deadened by the woodwork.
I've had a bit of hum recently on my setup, but I think its mainly earthing problems.
Do you prefer the PCM56 to the TDA1541? I'm thinking of one day upgrading to PCM63 (if I can ever find two cheap enough).
Oooh, I'm dragging this off thread already (sorry).
Wow Tubee, a whole new chassis! Not really a modified CD650/60 so much as an explosion of ideas soldering themselves into a super-project.
Do please let us know, on here, how it turns out.
Simon
Do please let us know, on here, how it turns out.
Simon
philpoole said:
No complaints from me Phil.
Any reason you'd move away from TDA1541? I've not heard many players that would make me want to move. What DAC is in the CD17KI mk2? I like that player.
Simon
Upgrading's the wrong word.
Its just because I now have PMD100 working, and for HDCD it outputs greater than 16 bits, so was interested in trying a DAC with a greater bit depth, like PCM63.
I agree, I haven't heard many others that sound as nice (although some argue PCM63 can do).
Its just because I now have PMD100 working, and for HDCD it outputs greater than 16 bits, so was interested in trying a DAC with a greater bit depth, like PCM63.
I agree, I haven't heard many others that sound as nice (although some argue PCM63 can do).