Scott, is it OK if the putty hardens after awhile?
If so, I already have just the thing.
Also, what is this 'pam' releasing agent? I'll most likely need to apply something in order to make getting the molds of the indents out of the frame sucessfully.
It does look quite do-able though and I'm glad you brought it up otherwise I wouldn't have thought of it.
If so, I already have just the thing.
Also, what is this 'pam' releasing agent? I'll most likely need to apply something in order to make getting the molds of the indents out of the frame sucessfully.
It does look quite do-able though and I'm glad you brought it up otherwise I wouldn't have thought of it.
ShinOBIWAN said:
Sure its OK.. it doesn't have to be perfect here - in fact you don't have to do it at all, BUT it is better if you do.
The only thing I might be concerned with is just how much shrinkage the putty goes through when it hardens.. if its a lot then you might need to add some filler/bondo to your concrete cast and do a little "shaping" afterwards. (..no big deal.)
😀 "pam" is just the brand name "cr@p" used in kitchens for spraying on pans when baking.. i.e. a cooking release agent (..that happens to work well in some instances with other DIY efforts.)
No problem about providing the info. 😉 Its always better when someone else has stumbled through-it first. (..you should see the back frame of my 10" midbass drivers - yours are a "delight" by comparison.)
David Gatti said:Fast work Shin. Must have been smooth progress on this one.
It was a lot smoother this time around, plus I just got stuck in and lived in the shed for 2 weeks 😀
One down and one to go.
I'm sure ATC would supply you with a spare basket (for a small fee) if you wanted to use it as part of your mould to get the exact shape. they have always been VERY helpful with me.
dstockwell said:
Its more a matter of the baffle not being quite as effective as it could be.
Simply having a small "void" filled with air likely will not have any effect. Consider that frame is a poor transducer - it will disturb the air in the void only at VERY low levels.. Furthermore that vibrated air in the void is unlikely to effect the frame (i.e. transmit vibration back to the frame).
Now as to effectiveness:
We wanted 3 things from the baffle: 1. rigidity, 2. weight, and 3. a "faster" medium to transmit vibration away from the driver.
With the voids "filled" we gain surface area and this improves 1 & 3. (..of course we also gain some additional weight, but it likely will be nominal unless Shin' mass loads with lead.)
Puggie said:
I really don't know whats going on with them but I've received some very shoddy service considering that I've pushed nearly £2.5k their way in drivers alone, these were 4x standard domes, 2x super domes and 2x 9" bass. Now out of all these drivers the supers didn't come with any binding posts nor sorbothane baffle cushions. I've been waiting for these for over 4 months now and I keep ringing up and being told they've either sent them and they've been lost in the post or the latest story for the last month has been we will send out another set.
Its confusing because I've received absolutely superb service in the past but these recent months have seen a decline. I don't know what's going on but I'm getting in touch again to give them a kick up the backside, its a shame when you have to get rude but being nice obviously isn't getting the job done at the moment.
dstockwell said:Gotcha.... lead
I haven't tried lead as void "filler" - it may work well. On the other hand it may not.
My advice is to keep the subtrate of the baffle the same (i.e. the "non"-voids should be part of the concrete). Concrete is MUCH more rigid. Furthermore, alternate coupled substrates usually "sink" energy.. and this violates the the "transmission" purpose. (..UNLESS you solder/weld the material to the frame - THAT wasn't something I thought of untill now - still, it won't be as rigid a surface. Who knows though, it could actually be better.)
Now if you had a baffle that was less rigid than lead and also a poorer "medium".. say MDF, then I would think that lead filling the voids (not solder/weld) would help.
ShinOBIWAN said:
I would send them this post in its entirety specifically to management.. and note just how much exposure this forum has for a given month (..contact a mod. for that info.). That should accelerate the delievery.
ScottG said:
Good idea Scott.
TBH I do already have these parts but these were taken from a pair of the standard domes which I sold on this forum. I promised to forward these replacements onto him when they arrived but like me he's been kept waiting, in the end it make me look like the fool.
Tom, if your reading this, sorry and I'll get on to ATC yet again.
Hi Shin,
I have some gaskets and some binding posts, if you mean the 'socket assemblies' which are on the Super Domes. (i.e. A black and a red 4mm. socket). I am sure you are aware that on the mid-domes there are no binding posts as are fitted to their bass units.
If you are completely stuck for these, let me know what you are short of, and I will send you some.
Regards,
I have some gaskets and some binding posts, if you mean the 'socket assemblies' which are on the Super Domes. (i.e. A black and a red 4mm. socket). I am sure you are aware that on the mid-domes there are no binding posts as are fitted to their bass units.
If you are completely stuck for these, let me know what you are short of, and I will send you some.
Regards,
Bobken said:
Hi Bob,
The binding post term is my mistake, sorry for the confusion, what I did mean was the mini banana plugs that fit into the terminals on the driver:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
A tip my hat to you for offering up these items but it really is ATC's responsibility and since I paid £800 for a pair of these drivers I think the least they can do is send out the missing bits.
Hi Shin,
You are quite right in that ATC should sort this out for you, of course. In view of my own excellent treatment from them in the past, I am amazed that this has not already happened.
However, if you cannot get a satisfactory resolution for some obscure reason, let me know and I will send you the necessary parts FOC.
ATC kindly let me have some spares of these plugs and gaskets when I visited them a couple of times last year, and it is hard to believe that they have any stock problems with simple parts like these. It is not as if they are worth very much, and they must be using them all of the time in their own assemblies, quite apart from needing to supply them with the drivers they sell to others.
I don't know whom you have been in contact with at ATC but have you spoken to Bob Polly about this problem, I wonder?
Regards,
You are quite right in that ATC should sort this out for you, of course. In view of my own excellent treatment from them in the past, I am amazed that this has not already happened.
However, if you cannot get a satisfactory resolution for some obscure reason, let me know and I will send you the necessary parts FOC.
ATC kindly let me have some spares of these plugs and gaskets when I visited them a couple of times last year, and it is hard to believe that they have any stock problems with simple parts like these. It is not as if they are worth very much, and they must be using them all of the time in their own assemblies, quite apart from needing to supply them with the drivers they sell to others.
I don't know whom you have been in contact with at ATC but have you spoken to Bob Polly about this problem, I wonder?
Regards,
Bobken said:
Bob was my first contact back when I first started dealing with ATC last year. Up until this point everything has gone very smoothly, its not a huge deal but its just frustrating more than anything because of the time involved in tracking down missing bits that are trivial but essential to get the best from the drivers. I could cut up some sorbothane for the baffle decoupling pad and do a bodge with the wiring into the terminals but I'd much prefer the proper ATC stuff that normally comes with the drivers.
I emailed Bob about the missing components back when the drivers arrived over 4 months ago and I got a message that they'd be sent out ASAP along with an appology. A month went by with nothing so I rang them and spoke to a woman called Niki, I asked to speak with Bob, unfortunately he wasn't available at that time so I left it and emailed again. No reply. So I rang again and explained what had happened and another woman, Diane, suggested that they'd got lost in the post and that I should email yet again to sort out replacements and also pass along my details. At this point it was knocking on for 3 months after the drivers arrived. They confirmed once again that they'd send them and that was around a month ago. I know ATC don't work particularly quickly as I had longish waits whilst my drivers were being constructed and I have no problems with that, afterall good things come to those who wait but surely these sundry items are virtually always in stock and should only take a matter of days to be delivered.
I'm not sure what's gone wrong but I'm getting to the point where Tom is asking where the stuff he's paid for is and I'm regretting telling him that I'd have them sent off to him within a short amount of time.
Bob I'll get in touch with ATC tommorow and hopefully sort this out. But if I don't get a result soonish, would it be OK to email you and pass along Toms details, I really would appreciate if you could supply 4 x mini banana plugs and 2 x damping pad thingies. I'd be happy to pay a small sum for the effort and time involved as well as cover postage. I would say that if it comes to troubling you for these parts then I won't be dealing with ATC in the future but I know I'd be lying to myself because they make some of the best drivers in the world, if it were any other company I'd probably stick by my words.
Hi Shin,
I can understand your frustration after reading this, and still cannot understand why ATC haven't sorted this out for you yet.
As I have said before, I found them extremely helpful in all my dealings with them for over 20 yrs., and as we both know, there shouldn't be any shortage of these simple parts at ATC.
I must say that they are a bit 'laid-back' in their overall approach, as you have found, but this has not (yet!) been much of a problem for me. I certainly never found them to be obstructive or whatever in any of my dealings with ATC, but sometimes you do need to do a bit of chasing things up!
As you also well know, their products are so good that whatever they did I would doubtless put up with it, but to be fair to them at ATC, I don't think it is anything deliberate on their part, as I think they are good-hearted people there. Maybe their organisaton is a bit too relaxed, but I always found them to be very helpful and obliging and was always fully satisfied in the end.
Anyway, I originally thought it was the 4mm sockets which are actually inset into these drivers which you were after, and I have quite few spares of these, as they gave me some on one of my several visits there. Having checked stocks, I also have one set of the 4mm plugs which they supply with these drivers (2 black, & 2 red) which I now understand is what you need for Tom.
If necessary, I will send these to Tom for you (without any cost to anyone), but if you can get some from ATC anyway, I would rather keep these few I have in case of possible future needs.
You may not be aware of this but they are Belling-Lee 'O/Z' types (L378A/4/Red or L378A/4/Black) available from Farnell under part nos. 317-172, & 317-184, respectively.
I also have some spare gaskets for these mid-domes, and again, if you are stuck, I will send a couple of these to Tom at no cost, if you let me know after your latest attempts at getting ATC to come up with the goods.
Being something of a squirrel by nature, I tend to hang on to these kind of things and put them away in case there is a future need, but rather than see someone suffering aggravation and frustration in waiting unnecessarily, I will part up with them. I know what it is like when something daft like this is holding up progress!
On another matter, I noticed Scott's suggestions re filling the voids in the backs of the ATC bass drivers, and understand what he is getting at here. However, if you 'contour' the concrete baffle to suit the drivers' castings, I am sure that you would not still be able to use the proprietary ATC gaskets then, as they would not conform to this new rather convoluted shape without breaking up.
This would then spoil any airtight seal between the drivers and baffles, so I hope you have borne this in mind if this matters to you. With two quite highly sculptured mating surfaces like you would then be dealing with, I reckon the only practical way of obtaining anything like good seal, would be to use some kind of liquid gasket material. This might be fine, but I have had considerable difficulties in the past with this sort of flexible gasket idea, and it can be almost impossible to ever part the joined components later on, if this is subsequently needed.
I once spoiled a pair of drivers this way, and if I was ever forced to adopt this approach again, I would ensure that at least one mating surface had some suitable release agent applied to it, and even then it would be less easy to separate than when using a simple 'dry' gasket.
If it was me doing this, I would rather try to arrange for the backs of the drivers to be made flat in contour, so that there would be a single plane (i.e a flat annular) join between driver and bafle, whereupon the standard flat gasket would still be fine in use.
If filling these viods is important, I would try doing this with perhaps car body filler (like Davids Isopon, or similar) and this could be very easily smoothed off flush by wiping across the voids with a flat hard piece of plastic, as the cast webs would give support to this, as you finished off this 'filling' process. This would adhere well to the aluminium casting, and you can even obtain aluminium (or steel, or several other metals) 'filled' epoxy compounds of this nature, which should have quite similar density and properties, I guess, to the aluminium parent metal.
Also, if using ordinary car body filler, you could add in some lead shot when mixing this up, to add some mass, and make it more inert, if this is desirable for this application.
If care is taken with the 'wiping off' action during filling these voids, you should end up with a very smooth and flat surface all around the basket, and if necessary, a final smoothing off with a flat file and possibly some wet-&-dry paper would achieve perfection here.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
I can understand your frustration after reading this, and still cannot understand why ATC haven't sorted this out for you yet.
As I have said before, I found them extremely helpful in all my dealings with them for over 20 yrs., and as we both know, there shouldn't be any shortage of these simple parts at ATC.
I must say that they are a bit 'laid-back' in their overall approach, as you have found, but this has not (yet!) been much of a problem for me. I certainly never found them to be obstructive or whatever in any of my dealings with ATC, but sometimes you do need to do a bit of chasing things up!
As you also well know, their products are so good that whatever they did I would doubtless put up with it, but to be fair to them at ATC, I don't think it is anything deliberate on their part, as I think they are good-hearted people there. Maybe their organisaton is a bit too relaxed, but I always found them to be very helpful and obliging and was always fully satisfied in the end.
Anyway, I originally thought it was the 4mm sockets which are actually inset into these drivers which you were after, and I have quite few spares of these, as they gave me some on one of my several visits there. Having checked stocks, I also have one set of the 4mm plugs which they supply with these drivers (2 black, & 2 red) which I now understand is what you need for Tom.
If necessary, I will send these to Tom for you (without any cost to anyone), but if you can get some from ATC anyway, I would rather keep these few I have in case of possible future needs.
You may not be aware of this but they are Belling-Lee 'O/Z' types (L378A/4/Red or L378A/4/Black) available from Farnell under part nos. 317-172, & 317-184, respectively.
I also have some spare gaskets for these mid-domes, and again, if you are stuck, I will send a couple of these to Tom at no cost, if you let me know after your latest attempts at getting ATC to come up with the goods.
Being something of a squirrel by nature, I tend to hang on to these kind of things and put them away in case there is a future need, but rather than see someone suffering aggravation and frustration in waiting unnecessarily, I will part up with them. I know what it is like when something daft like this is holding up progress!
On another matter, I noticed Scott's suggestions re filling the voids in the backs of the ATC bass drivers, and understand what he is getting at here. However, if you 'contour' the concrete baffle to suit the drivers' castings, I am sure that you would not still be able to use the proprietary ATC gaskets then, as they would not conform to this new rather convoluted shape without breaking up.
This would then spoil any airtight seal between the drivers and baffles, so I hope you have borne this in mind if this matters to you. With two quite highly sculptured mating surfaces like you would then be dealing with, I reckon the only practical way of obtaining anything like good seal, would be to use some kind of liquid gasket material. This might be fine, but I have had considerable difficulties in the past with this sort of flexible gasket idea, and it can be almost impossible to ever part the joined components later on, if this is subsequently needed.
I once spoiled a pair of drivers this way, and if I was ever forced to adopt this approach again, I would ensure that at least one mating surface had some suitable release agent applied to it, and even then it would be less easy to separate than when using a simple 'dry' gasket.
If it was me doing this, I would rather try to arrange for the backs of the drivers to be made flat in contour, so that there would be a single plane (i.e a flat annular) join between driver and bafle, whereupon the standard flat gasket would still be fine in use.
If filling these viods is important, I would try doing this with perhaps car body filler (like Davids Isopon, or similar) and this could be very easily smoothed off flush by wiping across the voids with a flat hard piece of plastic, as the cast webs would give support to this, as you finished off this 'filling' process. This would adhere well to the aluminium casting, and you can even obtain aluminium (or steel, or several other metals) 'filled' epoxy compounds of this nature, which should have quite similar density and properties, I guess, to the aluminium parent metal.
Also, if using ordinary car body filler, you could add in some lead shot when mixing this up, to add some mass, and make it more inert, if this is desirable for this application.
If care is taken with the 'wiping off' action during filling these voids, you should end up with a very smooth and flat surface all around the basket, and if necessary, a final smoothing off with a flat file and possibly some wet-&-dry paper would achieve perfection here.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Bobken said:
Hi Bob,
Are you saying that the bass drivers from ATC should come with gaskets?
If so 😡 😡
I haven't had these either!
Hi Shin,
They certainly do!
At least mine have and I know they are available, as I had a couple of spares for their 9" drivers from them last year when they re-coned my old units for me.
I believe you are referring to the 9" versions, aren't you?
Anyway, I would be very surprised if they are not available as 'standard' for all of ATC's range as getting a good seal with the cabinet is rather important in my experience.
Maybe surprisingly, but it is still important to get a good airtight seal even when using them in vented enclosures, as it is not ideal if there are any other 'leaks' except as intended through the ports, themselves.
Regards,
They certainly do!
At least mine have and I know they are available, as I had a couple of spares for their 9" drivers from them last year when they re-coned my old units for me.
I believe you are referring to the 9" versions, aren't you?
Anyway, I would be very surprised if they are not available as 'standard' for all of ATC's range as getting a good seal with the cabinet is rather important in my experience.
Maybe surprisingly, but it is still important to get a good airtight seal even when using them in vented enclosures, as it is not ideal if there are any other 'leaks' except as intended through the ports, themselves.
Regards,
Hi again Bob,
Regarding the rest of your excellent post; I really do like the idea that you've proposed here, I've been contemplating how I'd get the mold and driver indentations done without too much drama.
Filling the voids sounds far easier than making an impression of them and, like you've intelligently pointed out, I won't have any seal issues either now or later on if/when I remove the drivers. They are also in a sealed cabinet so an airtight seal is desirable.
Also, thank for the offer of the missing bits. I rang ATC up this evening but they were closed unfortunately. I have sent Bob yet another email and have included a link to these post, hopefully this will quickly resolve the issue. I hate using these lame stong arm tactics because I've got a lot of respect for ATC's products but you can't accuse me of not being patient after 4 months.
Regarding the rest of your excellent post; I really do like the idea that you've proposed here, I've been contemplating how I'd get the mold and driver indentations done without too much drama.
Filling the voids sounds far easier than making an impression of them and, like you've intelligently pointed out, I won't have any seal issues either now or later on if/when I remove the drivers. They are also in a sealed cabinet so an airtight seal is desirable.
Also, thank for the offer of the missing bits. I rang ATC up this evening but they were closed unfortunately. I have sent Bob yet another email and have included a link to these post, hopefully this will quickly resolve the issue. I hate using these lame stong arm tactics because I've got a lot of respect for ATC's products but you can't accuse me of not being patient after 4 months.
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