Hi folks,
I'm looking for Peerless bass drivers, and have considered the following:
HDS205
CSX 217 or 257
SLS 213, to play below around 3-400 Hz.
Some have mentioned the HDS205 to be an "odd" driver to work with, but I don't understand why.
Size is limited as I'd like to end up with some reasonably slim fllorstanders, TMWW style.
Any advise welcome.
Jennice
I'm looking for Peerless bass drivers, and have considered the following:
HDS205
CSX 217 or 257
SLS 213, to play below around 3-400 Hz.
Some have mentioned the HDS205 to be an "odd" driver to work with, but I don't understand why.
Size is limited as I'd like to end up with some reasonably slim fllorstanders, TMWW style.
Any advise welcome.
Jennice
Hi Jennice
I said that the HDS205 (850490) is an odd driver to work with. I couldn't get the bottom end to go down too low at all and was lucky to get an F3 in the high 40's (Hz) where with a 6.5" CSX176H it was easy to get in the low 40's (Hz).
I tried different box volumes and ports and eventually sold it on eBay and was glad I only bought 1 to try.
Could always go with 2/ 6.5" HDS woofers for the TMWW which would give a slim cabinet or a sidefiring 10" in a TMW. Not having built 3-ways, I'll opt out on any further advise.
I said that the HDS205 (850490) is an odd driver to work with. I couldn't get the bottom end to go down too low at all and was lucky to get an F3 in the high 40's (Hz) where with a 6.5" CSX176H it was easy to get in the low 40's (Hz).
I tried different box volumes and ports and eventually sold it on eBay and was glad I only bought 1 to try.
Could always go with 2/ 6.5" HDS woofers for the TMWW which would give a slim cabinet or a sidefiring 10" in a TMW. Not having built 3-ways, I'll opt out on any further advise.
Thanks for the advice.
I have access to persons who don't consider 3-ways a challenge.
However, if I left it all to them, I think they would get less than happy, and it wouldn't be "my" project, which is the reason for DIY'ing. Hope this makes sense to anyone else than me. 🙂
What cabinet size did you use?
I want a good "piston" area, as they need to play loud, yet clear.
The side-fireing has crossed my mind, too, but wouldn't I be limited to cross over around 100Hz to avoid the broblem of hearing the direction?
I was thinking of something like the Peerless HDS134 type 830870 from maybe 300 HZ to 2.5 - 3kHz, and then a ScanSpeak 2905/9700 for the top end. Depending on the situation, I thought of crossing to the low around baffle step, which would suit the higher sensitivity of two woofers nicely.
The SLS woofers seem interesting - I thought of two "smaller" ones in parallel for the low end.
Jennice
I have access to persons who don't consider 3-ways a challenge.
However, if I left it all to them, I think they would get less than happy, and it wouldn't be "my" project, which is the reason for DIY'ing. Hope this makes sense to anyone else than me. 🙂
What cabinet size did you use?
I want a good "piston" area, as they need to play loud, yet clear.
The side-fireing has crossed my mind, too, but wouldn't I be limited to cross over around 100Hz to avoid the broblem of hearing the direction?
I was thinking of something like the Peerless HDS134 type 830870 from maybe 300 HZ to 2.5 - 3kHz, and then a ScanSpeak 2905/9700 for the top end. Depending on the situation, I thought of crossing to the low around baffle step, which would suit the higher sensitivity of two woofers nicely.
The SLS woofers seem interesting - I thought of two "smaller" ones in parallel for the low end.
Jennice
I used 33 litres for 2 / 850122 CSX woofers.
For side firing you need to crossover below 100Hz and was thinking of a Peerless 10" XLS. I think there are a few that have used it for the lower octaves in a main speaker. I'm not familiar with the SLS woofers or the 830870 as we get the some of the HDS and CSX range in Oz.
8" HDS looked good on paper and thought it might have potential with a Fs of 29.1Hz, easy impedance load, Fs/Qts was right for a vented design, 5.5mm xmax and 8" should go lower than the 6.5" right. How wrong I was and only goes to show you have to deal with all the T/S parameters and just not the glossy bits. I got caught.
For side firing you need to crossover below 100Hz and was thinking of a Peerless 10" XLS. I think there are a few that have used it for the lower octaves in a main speaker. I'm not familiar with the SLS woofers or the 830870 as we get the some of the HDS and CSX range in Oz.
8" HDS looked good on paper and thought it might have potential with a Fs of 29.1Hz, easy impedance load, Fs/Qts was right for a vented design, 5.5mm xmax and 8" should go lower than the 6.5" right. How wrong I was and only goes to show you have to deal with all the T/S parameters and just not the glossy bits. I got caught.
I was talking to an ex-Peerless guy, who said the XLS are for deep sub's only. Their massive moving masses make them great for pumping air, but they're supposedly not good for >100 Hz if you want the bass to be clear and precise. For that purpose CLS or SLS are better.
This reminds me... have you seen all the new HDS drivers that have appeared?
For a home theatre system with a digitally filtered <80 HZ sub output, the XLS with a passive radiator make the earth move, but for high quality audio, he doesn't like them.
Poor guy... He's been in a room with 8 XLS's and something like 3000 Watts of power! What an earthquake feeling it must have been...
What would you choose as "mid" from maybe 300 Hz to 3-4 kHz?
The new HDS Nomex 134 type 830873 looks interesting, I think.
I don't know (too little experience) if the HDS nomex 106 is too small to handle 300 Hz properly.
Any comments on this? Maybe I'd go for the 134 as I need really high order filters to avoid any lows to get to the mid..
Jennice
Jennice
This reminds me... have you seen all the new HDS drivers that have appeared?
For a home theatre system with a digitally filtered <80 HZ sub output, the XLS with a passive radiator make the earth move, but for high quality audio, he doesn't like them.
Poor guy... He's been in a room with 8 XLS's and something like 3000 Watts of power! What an earthquake feeling it must have been...
What would you choose as "mid" from maybe 300 Hz to 3-4 kHz?
The new HDS Nomex 134 type 830873 looks interesting, I think.
I don't know (too little experience) if the HDS nomex 106 is too small to handle 300 Hz properly.
Any comments on this? Maybe I'd go for the 134 as I need really high order filters to avoid any lows to get to the mid..
Jennice
Jennice
The SLS 8 is very clean up to ~400Hz. However, they're very inefficient, which is why their bass performance seems so good in a relatively small enclosure. Hoffman's Iron Law reigns supreme, unfortunately.
Still, I'm very impressed with how much technology Peerless put into this driver, and how little they cost, considering. Unlike Peerless' own description of the SLS line, these ventilate the voicecoil not through a vented polepiece but through perimeter holes in the cone under the dustcap. The basket is the nicest stamped basket by far that I've seen, and it is very open. Listening to it at high SPL it's obvious that there's a shorting ring (Faraday ring) in the motor, which few other drivers at its price can claim. I'm half tempted to see if I can find another few and put together a system using them and an Aura NS3 wideband driver on top!
Still, I'm very impressed with how much technology Peerless put into this driver, and how little they cost, considering. Unlike Peerless' own description of the SLS line, these ventilate the voicecoil not through a vented polepiece but through perimeter holes in the cone under the dustcap. The basket is the nicest stamped basket by far that I've seen, and it is very open. Listening to it at high SPL it's obvious that there's a shorting ring (Faraday ring) in the motor, which few other drivers at its price can claim. I'm half tempted to see if I can find another few and put together a system using them and an Aura NS3 wideband driver on top!
Jennice-
Do you have a link to the new drivers. I checked Peerless website, but could not find the new drivers. Where do they have them hidden?
Do you have a link to the new drivers. I checked Peerless website, but could not find the new drivers. Where do they have them hidden?
You can find the new woofers at:
http://www.d-s-t.com/peerless/index.htm
Pallas,
As for the SLS8 performance, they may be less efficient than some others, but +/-8 mm linear excursion is interesting compared to the +/- 3.5 mm of the HDS woofers. 🙂
Power is cheap these days, so it's more a matter of finding a driver to handle it nicely, I think.
Jennice
http://www.d-s-t.com/peerless/index.htm
Pallas,
As for the SLS8 performance, they may be less efficient than some others, but +/-8 mm linear excursion is interesting compared to the +/- 3.5 mm of the HDS woofers. 🙂
Power is cheap these days, so it's more a matter of finding a driver to handle it nicely, I think.
Jennice
😕
Why can't I see these speakers on the Peerless site? I go to the site Jennice shows, choose woofers, HDS doesn't have them (and based on the 830xxx they aren't HDS anyway). The SDS line is the 830xxx line, but the speaker mentioned isn't listed. Strange.
Why can't I see these speakers on the Peerless site? I go to the site Jennice shows, choose woofers, HDS doesn't have them (and based on the 830xxx they aren't HDS anyway). The SDS line is the 830xxx line, but the speaker mentioned isn't listed. Strange.
Jennice said:
I've got a soft spot for the Peerless 850488 and have built a few speakers with it..... exceptional driver. The other would be the Vifa P13WH-00-08, maybe an oldie but a beauty and I've got to get a pair to fine tune the design that's in the Wiki.
BTW, the guy from Peerless in with 8 XLS drivers........ he's still sane?
Cheers
Rabbitz
capslock said:
Ok, I'm an idiot. They kept talking about the HDS, so I assumed that is what the new speakers were. Thanks for the tip.
The new speakers are HDS with Nomex and Polypropylene membranes.
Rabbitz,
I wouldn't bet my life on it. 😀
Used in music systems, they're supposedly not good. Great for moving air, but as elegant as a dump truck on a highway.
They're not intended for this, either.
For moving air at sub-100 Hz, where many home theatre amps have a digital filtered outputs, they are said to be impressive air movers, though.
A colleague (who has whitnessed the 8 XLS's) says they're more for "boom-boxes" than for clean "bass-boxes", if that makes any sense... (?)
I considered 2x XLS-12 for exactly this purpose (with a suitable amp) in a 30 m2 room, and he gave me an "are you nuts"-kinda' look. However, they're designed to work with passive radiators, which I don't like the thought of. Reason for radiators is supposedly that it should be difficult to make and tune a vent port for suitably low frequences.
Jennice
Rabbitz,
I wouldn't bet my life on it. 😀
Used in music systems, they're supposedly not good. Great for moving air, but as elegant as a dump truck on a highway.
They're not intended for this, either.
For moving air at sub-100 Hz, where many home theatre amps have a digital filtered outputs, they are said to be impressive air movers, though.
A colleague (who has whitnessed the 8 XLS's) says they're more for "boom-boxes" than for clean "bass-boxes", if that makes any sense... (?)
I considered 2x XLS-12 for exactly this purpose (with a suitable amp) in a 30 m2 room, and he gave me an "are you nuts"-kinda' look. However, they're designed to work with passive radiators, which I don't like the thought of. Reason for radiators is supposedly that it should be difficult to make and tune a vent port for suitably low frequences.
Jennice
Rabbitz,
Do you have the formula at hand, to calculate the max sound pressure from a given driver size with a known excursion, at a given frequency?
Jennice
Do you have the formula at hand, to calculate the max sound pressure from a given driver size with a known excursion, at a given frequency?
Jennice
Jennice
I'm sorry I don't have a formula for that but there's probably something out there. I normally just get those sort of figures from LSPCad lite by increasing the power until the xmax + 15% runs out and then it's only a guide.
Cheers
I'm sorry I don't have a formula for that but there's probably something out there. I normally just get those sort of figures from LSPCad lite by increasing the power until the xmax + 15% runs out and then it's only a guide.
Cheers
Save this zip file, unzip it and run the install program
http://www.speakerbuilding.com/software/ware/lspcad_l.zip
http://www.speakerbuilding.com/software/ware/lspcad_l.zip
Strange. The XLS (until recently) used to be the least-distorting 12" subwoofer around.Jennice said:
Thanks for the link, Rabbitz! 🙂
I haven't heard the XLS myself. Just reporting what I'm told.
At very low frequencies, they're good, but supposedly their high moving mass make them hard to integrate with other drivers for music listening, as they are only suited for < 100 Hz or thereabout.
I'm considering to put one or two of them on my shopping list and try them for home theatre (where there's a digital 80Hz LP filter.)
Jennice
I haven't heard the XLS myself. Just reporting what I'm told.
At very low frequencies, they're good, but supposedly their high moving mass make them hard to integrate with other drivers for music listening, as they are only suited for < 100 Hz or thereabout.
I'm considering to put one or two of them on my shopping list and try them for home theatre (where there's a digital 80Hz LP filter.)
Jennice
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