Separating jitter sources
MWP,
You are right of course that this thread shouldn't be concerned with the jitter of the dac. It's the PC/soundcard we care about.
However, I like the Stereophile measurement method because the cost of the measurement setup is much less than an instrument that can analyze a direct digital s/pdif input.
Guido, are you out there? I saw you lurking
. Am I on the wrong track here?
-Robert
MWP,
You are right of course that this thread shouldn't be concerned with the jitter of the dac. It's the PC/soundcard we care about.
However, I like the Stereophile measurement method because the cost of the measurement setup is much less than an instrument that can analyze a direct digital s/pdif input.
Guido, are you out there? I saw you lurking
. Am I on the wrong track here?-Robert
I am clearly on the PC as source side...
It has such a countless list of advantages I cannot even consider a different source.
For me working/reading/driving/[put here anything] without music is very simple painful. I can't really understand the people who say I am listening music only several hours a week 'cause I have no time. To me this is plain strange.
Since my job requires me in front of a computer almost 12 hours a day I find it much much easier to have everything on a computer(I have an M-Audio 2496, tweaked).
As output I use ASIO, so no kmix scheit for me.
As about the quality, since there is no transport involved there are no problems(unless someone crazy enough tu sugest that HDDs are not perfect sources arrives; hey, maybe it is not cool since you cannot change the bits on HDDs like you can on CDs(LOL) using some external device).
The output is over SPDIF.
Also, the noise of the PC could be greatly reduces by a low-noise case and many other tweaks.
I do believe many people a straight set against the PCs without even trying a decent sound card or trying to tweak the PC for low noise. Those people don't interest me at all, and I put them straight in the ignorants camp(pretty crowded I would say). Enjoy changing the CD every 30-70 minutes, I sure won't need to do that.
And to some of you people that say PCs are scheit, I am asking you: what are the studios using? How is the music processed? Using analog hardware?
It has such a countless list of advantages I cannot even consider a different source.
For me working/reading/driving/[put here anything] without music is very simple painful. I can't really understand the people who say I am listening music only several hours a week 'cause I have no time. To me this is plain strange.
Since my job requires me in front of a computer almost 12 hours a day I find it much much easier to have everything on a computer(I have an M-Audio 2496, tweaked).
As output I use ASIO, so no kmix scheit for me.
As about the quality, since there is no transport involved there are no problems(unless someone crazy enough tu sugest that HDDs are not perfect sources arrives; hey, maybe it is not cool since you cannot change the bits on HDDs like you can on CDs(LOL) using some external device).
The output is over SPDIF.
Also, the noise of the PC could be greatly reduces by a low-noise case and many other tweaks.
I do believe many people a straight set against the PCs without even trying a decent sound card or trying to tweak the PC for low noise. Those people don't interest me at all, and I put them straight in the ignorants camp(pretty crowded I would say). Enjoy changing the CD every 30-70 minutes, I sure won't need to do that.
And to some of you people that say PCs are scheit, I am asking you: what are the studios using? How is the music processed? Using analog hardware?
More jitter benchmarks
Assuming this isn't totally irrelevant, I have more jitter numbers from Stereophile's recent editions.
The January 2004 edition published j=140.2ps for Mark Levinson No.39 transport and 156ps for the less expensive new No.390S.
The Feb 2004 issue published j=230ps from toslink out of PC (soundcard unspecified but I think it's a recent RME) into Theta Digital Generation VIII with reclocking. With their new "Jitter Jail", jitter was reduced to 180ps.
Ok, so Stereophile's data shows their own PC setup to be approaching the level of one of the best transports available off the shelf.
Is 140ps a reasonable reference point for "best in class" for cd transports driving the best possible dacs?
-Robert
Assuming this isn't totally irrelevant, I have more jitter numbers from Stereophile's recent editions.
The January 2004 edition published j=140.2ps for Mark Levinson No.39 transport and 156ps for the less expensive new No.390S.
The Feb 2004 issue published j=230ps from toslink out of PC (soundcard unspecified but I think it's a recent RME) into Theta Digital Generation VIII with reclocking. With their new "Jitter Jail", jitter was reduced to 180ps.
Ok, so Stereophile's data shows their own PC setup to be approaching the level of one of the best transports available off the shelf.
Is 140ps a reasonable reference point for "best in class" for cd transports driving the best possible dacs?
-Robert
Re: Further
Sorry, I just hurried up and wrote everything in one post I don't own a good CD player/DAC/preamp anymore but rely simply instead on my modded M-Audio Revolution.
Not having a preamplifier and going DC coupled to speaker certainly helps a lot, sq is lots better than using a medium class CDP/DAC+preamp. Front out is going to Randy Slone's OPTI-MOS power amp kits (200W mosfet) -> to Infinity Reference Standard II.
Nothing further to add from my side See below for details, pic is of unmodded card
RFScheer said:I'm hoping some people with more experience - like lucpes who posted while I was writing this- will discuss some of the ways their pc's have extended the quality and experience of music playing or at least what they're currently attempting.
Sorry, I just hurried up and wrote everything in one post
I don't own a good CD player/DAC/preamp anymore but rely simply instead on my modded M-Audio Revolution.Not having a preamplifier and going DC coupled to speaker certainly helps a lot, sq is lots better than using a medium class CDP/DAC+preamp. Front out is going to Randy Slone's OPTI-MOS power amp kits (200W mosfet) -> to Infinity Reference Standard II.
Nothing further to add from my side
See below for details, pic is of unmodded card Attachments
2 more impressive links
More accumulating evidence (although still the data is not quite what I'm looking for).
Check out this 2 year-old link here which documents a shootout between a high-end player and RME soundcard.
And check out this new link about the new Emu 1820M and sibling reviewed by ExtremeTech..
Are you skeptics reading this stuff?
-Robert
More accumulating evidence (although still the data is not quite what I'm looking for).
Check out this 2 year-old link here which documents a shootout between a high-end player and RME soundcard.
And check out this new link about the new Emu 1820M and sibling reviewed by ExtremeTech..
Are you skeptics reading this stuff?
-Robert
lucpes and roibm are right
These guys are making a good point that I am sorry to have ignored.
While we debate the death of ultimate disc players (so I exaggerate), there is nobody on this planet capable of reading this forum who should be using a non-high-end cd player anymore.
Commonplace Sony's and Pioneer's and Marantz's and Philips and so on and on should be sitting in the basement.
It's obvious that a mod'd $150 M-Audio card is good enough to replace all of these and allow you to do so much more based on the pc. What's not yet so obvious is just how good the analog out can be? Just how far into our diy territory does this analog source penetrate?
Now, back to the main argument. Can we successfully convince the undead that they should give up quietly and reincarnate as hackers?
-Robert
These guys are making a good point that I am sorry to have ignored.
While we debate the death of ultimate disc players (so I exaggerate), there is nobody on this planet capable of reading this forum who should be using a non-high-end cd player anymore.
Commonplace Sony's and Pioneer's and Marantz's and Philips and so on and on should be sitting in the basement.
It's obvious that a mod'd $150 M-Audio card is good enough to replace all of these and allow you to do so much more based on the pc. What's not yet so obvious is just how good the analog out can be? Just how far into our diy territory does this analog source penetrate?
Now, back to the main argument. Can we successfully convince the undead that they should give up quietly and reincarnate as hackers?
-Robert
Hi,
I have built an audio PC that has replaced my modded Theta Pearl (with trichord clock 3). This is the way to go in my opinion.
I am using :
1) Mini-itx motherboard M6000 fanless
2) 160GB seagate hdd
3) 512MB RAM
4) RME DIGI8/96 sound card modded with LC 3 clock
5) fanless brick power supply.
With the above setup, it is equivalent to my CDT. (better bass but lose out a little in the vocals).
I have added a clock conditioner to my system - Apogee Big Ben. This has helped to eliminate the last bit of problem with the vocal (ok I am a bit anal here. Can only hear this little bit of brightness on certain tracks but I want none of that of course).
This setup has more potential for improvement. :
1) I am planning to build a linear conventional power supply to take the place of the brick switch mode supply.
2) Somewhere further along the line, I plan to replace the internal DC-DC convertor to an all linear power supply (however, not confortable to take the leap in one step)
3) I am also working on a dedicated shunt regulated power supply for the clock module.
Please have a look at the internals of my audio PC.
Note : I am using this audio PC SPDIF out exclusively i.e. treat it as a CDT replacement.
I am using Foobar as player & EAC as ripper in full WAV format.
Regards,
Joe Ling
Malaysia
I have built an audio PC that has replaced my modded Theta Pearl (with trichord clock 3). This is the way to go in my opinion.
I am using :
1) Mini-itx motherboard M6000 fanless
2) 160GB seagate hdd
3) 512MB RAM
4) RME DIGI8/96 sound card modded with LC 3 clock
5) fanless brick power supply.
With the above setup, it is equivalent to my CDT. (better bass but lose out a little in the vocals).
I have added a clock conditioner to my system - Apogee Big Ben. This has helped to eliminate the last bit of problem with the vocal (ok I am a bit anal here. Can only hear this little bit of brightness on certain tracks but I want none of that of course).
This setup has more potential for improvement. :
1) I am planning to build a linear conventional power supply to take the place of the brick switch mode supply.
2) Somewhere further along the line, I plan to replace the internal DC-DC convertor to an all linear power supply (however, not confortable to take the leap in one step)
3) I am also working on a dedicated shunt regulated power supply for the clock module.
Please have a look at the internals of my audio PC.
Note : I am using this audio PC SPDIF out exclusively i.e. treat it as a CDT replacement.
I am using Foobar as player & EAC as ripper in full WAV format.
Regards,
Joe Ling
Malaysia
Attachments
Questions about Joe's player
Joe,
Nice. Nearly silent PC due to fanless choice. Would you make the same choice of mobo again?
Have you tested with and without the LC3 soundcard clock mod?
Could you say more about the Apogee Big Ben? I don't know what that is and hopefully I'm not the only ignorant one on that issue.
How do you control playlists and all the other settings like volume?
I love your post because you're happy with the decision to get off the merry-go-round
even though you were using a really good transport.
-Robert
Joe,
Nice. Nearly silent PC due to fanless choice. Would you make the same choice of mobo again?
Have you tested with and without the LC3 soundcard clock mod?
Could you say more about the Apogee Big Ben? I don't know what that is and hopefully I'm not the only ignorant one on that issue.
How do you control playlists and all the other settings like volume?
I love your post because you're happy with the decision to get off the merry-go-round
even though you were using a really good transport.-Robert
RFScheer,
Why all the proselytizing? Why does anyone else have to agree with you? I’ve tried some of highly regarded PC sound cards, including Sound Blaster, Turtle Beach, & M-Audio, and none of them impressed me. I haven’t heard the Lynx, but it uses the same DAC chip as the DI/O and it didn’t impress me, either.
For use in high-quality audio, the PC has nothing going for it. It is a source of noise, heat, and complexity in a realm (audio) where simplicity is the order of the day. No matter how you muffle them, all fans and disk drives make noise. And worse than the mechanical noise is the EMI and RFI generated by the PC’s power supply and circuitry. Case in point, I purchased an M-Audio “Audiophile USB” DAC because it’s supposed to be hot stuff. You know, separate power supply that isolates it from the PC. With the M-Audio plugged into the wall and my laptop running on battery power, I can still hear the laptop’s power supply gurgling under the music. With the laptop plugged into the wall the low-level ground noise is even worse.
The clincher for me is the time it would take to transfer, catalog, and annotate my several-thousand disks, LP and CD, to a PC. If the bits coming out of the PC are the same as the bits coming from a CDT, why should I waste my time transferring them from one media to another?
Why all the proselytizing? Why does anyone else have to agree with you? I’ve tried some of highly regarded PC sound cards, including Sound Blaster, Turtle Beach, & M-Audio, and none of them impressed me. I haven’t heard the Lynx, but it uses the same DAC chip as the DI/O and it didn’t impress me, either.
For use in high-quality audio, the PC has nothing going for it. It is a source of noise, heat, and complexity in a realm (audio) where simplicity is the order of the day. No matter how you muffle them, all fans and disk drives make noise. And worse than the mechanical noise is the EMI and RFI generated by the PC’s power supply and circuitry. Case in point, I purchased an M-Audio “Audiophile USB” DAC because it’s supposed to be hot stuff. You know, separate power supply that isolates it from the PC. With the M-Audio plugged into the wall and my laptop running on battery power, I can still hear the laptop’s power supply gurgling under the music. With the laptop plugged into the wall the low-level ground noise is even worse.
The clincher for me is the time it would take to transfer, catalog, and annotate my several-thousand disks, LP and CD, to a PC. If the bits coming out of the PC are the same as the bits coming from a CDT, why should I waste my time transferring them from one media to another?
Dear RFScheer,
The LC3 clock made a noticable improvement
The Apogee big ben is a clock conditioner among other things. It is supposed to improve the jitter peformance of the preceding equipment (don't shoot, I have no measurements to prove this )
www.apogee.com
I have less then 200 albums on the PC. So, I just generate playlist on the fly (i.e. i generate the playlist each listening session - similar to loading a CD to my CDT but no need to get off the king's throne (listening chair))
I control the volume with my linestage. That means the the volume is not attenuated in the PC.
I don't control any other parameter from the PC. Room correction is done using other hardware in my system.
TO Ulas,
Many things defy logic initially. PC audio is not easy to get right. I did go through a little trial & error before I arrived at my present setup.
E.g. you need to use ASIO output to get good sound. I tried the default wave out & evern kernel streaming but it was no goog. I mean it was bad. However, ASIO solved that.
Fans & power supplies are the shortfalls of PC. That is why I have opted for a non pentium solution in VIA's mini-itx.
Anyway, one has to try to find out. I tried & found that this is ok for me. For others, maybe a different result. It's all relative after all.
Regards,
Joe Ling
BTW sound blaster not supposedly not highy regarded by many from my trawlings though the www.
The LC3 clock made a noticable improvement
The Apogee big ben is a clock conditioner among other things. It is supposed to improve the jitter peformance of the preceding equipment (don't shoot, I have no measurements to prove this
)www.apogee.com
I have less then 200 albums on the PC. So, I just generate playlist on the fly (i.e. i generate the playlist each listening session - similar to loading a CD to my CDT but no need to get off the king's throne (listening chair))
I control the volume with my linestage. That means the the volume is not attenuated in the PC.
I don't control any other parameter from the PC. Room correction is done using other hardware in my system.
TO Ulas,
Many things defy logic initially. PC audio is not easy to get right. I did go through a little trial & error before I arrived at my present setup.
E.g. you need to use ASIO output to get good sound. I tried the default wave out & evern kernel streaming but it was no goog. I mean it was bad. However, ASIO solved that.
Fans & power supplies are the shortfalls of PC. That is why I have opted for a non pentium solution in VIA's mini-itx.
Anyway, one has to try to find out. I tried & found that this is ok for me. For others, maybe a different result. It's all relative after all.
Regards,
Joe Ling
BTW sound blaster not supposedly not highy regarded by many from my trawlings though the www.
Specs on the Big Ben
Joe,
Thanks for your update on your system. I just toured quickly through the Apogee site and looked at a 2-page datasheet on the Big Ben. It's a pro studio master clock 19" rack unit for doing almost anything you would want to synchronize audio and video in a studio.
A bit difficult to find was a reference to the "famous" C777 clock having 256fs capability which I take to mean it has 256fs of jitter. Is that FEMTO-seconds?
Anyway, your system looks like a lot of fun to me.
Ulas,
Don't be in such a bad mood. It's ok if this thread has an energetic emotional flavor. You don't need to agree with it. But you HAVE reinforced my initial hypothesis that those still devoted to cd players are somewhat troubled at being left behind. Hey, I'm just gathering data here
.
Anyway everybody,
Please keep those jitter benchmarks pouring in. I can hardly keep up
.
-Robert
Joe,
Thanks for your update on your system. I just toured quickly through the Apogee site and looked at a 2-page datasheet on the Big Ben. It's a pro studio master clock 19" rack unit for doing almost anything you would want to synchronize audio and video in a studio.
A bit difficult to find was a reference to the "famous" C777 clock having 256fs capability which I take to mean it has 256fs of jitter. Is that FEMTO-seconds?
Anyway, your system looks like a lot of fun to me.
Ulas,
Don't be in such a bad mood. It's ok if this thread has an energetic emotional flavor. You don't need to agree with it. But you HAVE reinforced my initial hypothesis that those still devoted to cd players are somewhat troubled at being left behind. Hey, I'm just gathering data here
.Anyway everybody,
Please keep those jitter benchmarks pouring in. I can hardly keep up
.-Robert
Thanks lucpes!!!!
So while I am designing my dac and stuff, I am playing music from a pc that is not very evolved (yet), just noise-reduced as I mentioned and playing through the M-Audio Delta 410 analog outs. It's fun enough while I work and it sounds far better than the typical pc system.
Well, to illustrate how nice software can be, I've been using Winamp to play .wav, .ogg and .mp3 files and internet radio. But then lucpes tells us all on the 1st page of this thread
so I did and it took maybe 30 minutes start to finish before the sound was playing through asio drivers plugged into foobar2000 instead of that yucky Winamp (only kidding, I still like it). The reason it took so long was I was not smart enough to figure out right away how to put the Japanese plugin into foobar.
MUCH BETTER SOUND NOW!
-Robert
So while I am designing my dac and stuff, I am playing music from a pc that is not very evolved (yet), just noise-reduced as I mentioned and playing through the M-Audio Delta 410 analog outs. It's fun enough while I work and it sounds far better than the typical pc system.
Well, to illustrate how nice software can be, I've been using Winamp to play .wav, .ogg and .mp3 files and internet radio. But then lucpes tells us all on the 1st page of this thread
so I did and it took maybe 30 minutes start to finish before the sound was playing through asio drivers plugged into foobar2000 instead of that yucky Winamp (only kidding, I still like it). The reason it took so long was I was not smart enough to figure out right away how to put the Japanese plugin into foobar.
MUCH BETTER SOUND NOW!
-Robert
Too good to be true
joeling,
Your interpretation makes more sense but is less exciting, oh well. I wonder what the jitter level is and why they don't publish it for all to see?
I've decided to change my plans and build a 4 channel BrianGT amp before the dac so I can send 4 channels of analog out of the M-Audio and get rid of the passive crossovers in the speakers.
Can anyone suggest how to avoid doing a hardware volume control and instead do the volume control in foobar2000? That would make the amp box so simple.
-Robert
joeling,
Your interpretation makes more sense but is less exciting, oh well. I wonder what the jitter level is and why they don't publish it for all to see?
I've decided to change my plans and build a 4 channel BrianGT amp before the dac so I can send 4 channels of analog out of the M-Audio and get rid of the passive crossovers in the speakers.
Can anyone suggest how to avoid doing a hardware volume control and instead do the volume control in foobar2000? That would make the amp box so simple.
-Robert
Such a genius
Volume control is already built into the dsp of foobar2000 but isn't prominently displayed in the control menu. Anyway, it's easy to use the built-in volume control if you find the menu for it or just use NUM+ and NUM- with foobar as the top window displayed.
It seems I will not be needing that hardware volume control in that 4 channel gainclone box. I'll be dsp/biamping soon!
Hmmm, let's see if it degrades the sound at all.
-Robert
Volume control is already built into the dsp of foobar2000 but isn't prominently displayed in the control menu. Anyway, it's easy to use the built-in volume control if you find the menu for it or just use NUM+ and NUM- with foobar as the top window displayed.
It seems I will not be needing that hardware volume control in that 4 channel gainclone box. I'll be dsp/biamping soon!
Hmmm, let's see if it degrades the sound at all.
-Robert
I'll just be adding little bits of info/links as I find/remember them:
Software crossover using ASIO output:
http://www2.gol.com/users/pcazeles/asioxo.htm
Software crossover using ASIO output:
http://www2.gol.com/users/pcazeles/asioxo.htm
Hello
One of you told me to read this thread, well I was too lazy to read it all, but there are some interesting ideas.
I have a Linux PC with several harddisks and all my CDs are stored into it, in a losslessly compressed format (I use Flac). This has many advantages compared to using a CD player.
ease of use / ergonomy
- playlists (this is very important)
- user-friendly players
- saves wall space (no more dusty CD shelves)
- mo more broken jewel cases
Data permanence
- CDs do not last forever but I'll still want to listen to my music in 20 years. Harddisks fail but there is raid and DVD backups. Thus data on harddisks is more likely to last if cared for properly.
- Backing up CDs to harddisks is cheaper than making copies on other CDs.
- My CDs are safe from scratches and fingerprints while I listen to harddisk music.
Bonuses
- Want MP3 for my car player ? I just have to write a script and burn a few MP3-CDs
- Same for a portable MP3 player
- Use the computer to listen to Internet radio in decent quality
As far as I can see the only drawback is not being able to listen to a CD straight away, you have to rip it first. I can live with that.
There is also a problem with copy protected CDs, but these generally sound horrible and I don't listen to the few I own.
Audiophilia
Using a PC has many advantages.
- You immediately get a future-proof player for any format that is or will be (24bit 192 kHz soundcards, etc.)
- I won't talk about DSD ; DSD is a joke, OK ?
- Provides SPDIF or ADAT or whatever output format of a much better quality than any CD player could hope to do (see later).
- Use of software crossovers is straightforward and these can sound very good.
- Digital room correction, etc.
A PC full of harddisks is a lot cheaper than dedicated DSP boxes like Behringer, which need a PC to set them up anyway.
I'll post my experiences in the next message.
One of you told me to read this thread, well I was too lazy to read it all, but there are some interesting ideas.
I have a Linux PC with several harddisks and all my CDs are stored into it, in a losslessly compressed format (I use Flac). This has many advantages compared to using a CD player.
ease of use / ergonomy
- playlists (this is very important)
- user-friendly players
- saves wall space (no more dusty CD shelves)
- mo more broken jewel cases
Data permanence
- CDs do not last forever but I'll still want to listen to my music in 20 years. Harddisks fail but there is raid and DVD backups. Thus data on harddisks is more likely to last if cared for properly.
- Backing up CDs to harddisks is cheaper than making copies on other CDs.
- My CDs are safe from scratches and fingerprints while I listen to harddisk music.
Bonuses
- Want MP3 for my car player ? I just have to write a script and burn a few MP3-CDs
- Same for a portable MP3 player
- Use the computer to listen to Internet radio in decent quality
As far as I can see the only drawback is not being able to listen to a CD straight away, you have to rip it first. I can live with that.
There is also a problem with copy protected CDs, but these generally sound horrible and I don't listen to the few I own.
Audiophilia
Using a PC has many advantages.
- You immediately get a future-proof player for any format that is or will be (24bit 192 kHz soundcards, etc.)
- I won't talk about DSD ; DSD is a joke, OK ?
- Provides SPDIF or ADAT or whatever output format of a much better quality than any CD player could hope to do (see later).
- Use of software crossovers is straightforward and these can sound very good.
- Digital room correction, etc.
A PC full of harddisks is a lot cheaper than dedicated DSP boxes like Behringer, which need a PC to set them up anyway.
I'll post my experiences in the next message.
Left behind?? Oh, no!! Not again! I missed the train with the first digital audio revolution. You know, the one that claimed “Prefect Sound Forever.” I really didn’t get into digital audio until a few years ago and I certainly didn’t miss anything by not being an early adopter.RFScheer said:
You go ahead and blaze the trail. If, in ten or fifteen years you find something useful, I might join the party.
My experiences
Noise
Noise is a non-issue : I put the PC in another room.
I use a Zalman silent fan ; a thermo-regulated supply, the noise only comes from the harddisks, which are not that noisy. When standing about 1 meter from the PC like I am right now typing this, I hear a slight noise, realy it's quite silent. And it was really cheap :
- Zalman fan, at about 35 euros.
- Wireless keyboard/mouse (cheap) or standard keboard, mouse, and extension cord
- LCD screen and extension cord.
If you put the PC in your listening room though, you're in trouble.
I also use the PC to watch movies on my video projector, to project slide shows of my digital pics, etc. Can you do this with your cd player ? Or you gonna buy a Memory stick reader with integrated screen ?
iPod
Someone suggested to use an iPod. Well show me an iPod with 500 GB disk and a 17 inch screen and I'll talk to you.
I'd buy an iPod to listen while travelling though, it's a very good device, but I'd never use that in my living room !
PC and Audio Quality
First you need a good DAC with clock feedback.
The main advantage of a PC is that you can build a DAC with a low jitter clock in it and slave the soundcard to this clock. With pulse transformers or optical connections you get perfect isolation and no noise.
Just use a chip to encode a SPDIF or ADAT signal with null data, feed it from the DAC clock, and send it to your soundcard, tell the soundcard to slave to it, and it'll output SPDIF in sync with your master clock.
Thus you don't need fancy PLL's , FIFOs, clock conditioner buulshit or anything else, you plug it and it just works.
And you can use the cheapest crap power supply on your PC and it won't change a thing, even if it swamps the mains with harmonics, because all your neighbour's PCs, fridges, fluorescent lightings, halogen dimmers etc are already doing the same.
And you can supply the DAC from your mains filter (like deZorel) and not the PC...
Of course, if you insist on using a DAC with PLL clock recovery like they did in the 1980's, well good luck, but you better buy this $1000 digital cable !
DAC
Now where do you find a DAC with clock feedback ?
Well they won't sell this to you in the stores because the stores sell gear for people who don't know what a screwdriver is, let alone a soldering iron. You build it.
The stores will sell you very expensive things which try, and fail, to solve the jitter problem while you can sidetsep it by putting the clock in the DAC and slaving the PC to it.
Software crossovers
Type brutefir in google and all your questions will be answered. This thing works, I've used it, it's a bit geekish but once you get the hang of it, very powerful. That was why I chose Linux in the first place.
Now I have too much work right now to do electroncs and that's a pity, because I was building a series of amplifiers to play with software crossovers.
Well that was my opinion ! I hope it can help some of you in your quests.
Noise
Noise is a non-issue : I put the PC in another room.
I use a Zalman silent fan ; a thermo-regulated supply, the noise only comes from the harddisks, which are not that noisy. When standing about 1 meter from the PC like I am right now typing this, I hear a slight noise, realy it's quite silent. And it was really cheap :
- Zalman fan, at about 35 euros.
- Wireless keyboard/mouse (cheap) or standard keboard, mouse, and extension cord
- LCD screen and extension cord.
If you put the PC in your listening room though, you're in trouble.
I also use the PC to watch movies on my video projector, to project slide shows of my digital pics, etc. Can you do this with your cd player ? Or you gonna buy a Memory stick reader with integrated screen ?
iPod
Someone suggested to use an iPod. Well show me an iPod with 500 GB disk and a 17 inch screen and I'll talk to you.
I'd buy an iPod to listen while travelling though, it's a very good device, but I'd never use that in my living room !
PC and Audio Quality
First you need a good DAC with clock feedback.
The main advantage of a PC is that you can build a DAC with a low jitter clock in it and slave the soundcard to this clock. With pulse transformers or optical connections you get perfect isolation and no noise.
Just use a chip to encode a SPDIF or ADAT signal with null data, feed it from the DAC clock, and send it to your soundcard, tell the soundcard to slave to it, and it'll output SPDIF in sync with your master clock.
Thus you don't need fancy PLL's , FIFOs, clock conditioner buulshit or anything else, you plug it and it just works.
And you can use the cheapest crap power supply on your PC and it won't change a thing, even if it swamps the mains with harmonics, because all your neighbour's PCs, fridges, fluorescent lightings, halogen dimmers etc are already doing the same.
And you can supply the DAC from your mains filter (like deZorel) and not the PC...
Of course, if you insist on using a DAC with PLL clock recovery like they did in the 1980's, well good luck, but you better buy this $1000 digital cable !
DAC
Now where do you find a DAC with clock feedback ?
Well they won't sell this to you in the stores because the stores sell gear for people who don't know what a screwdriver is, let alone a soldering iron. You build it.
The stores will sell you very expensive things which try, and fail, to solve the jitter problem while you can sidetsep it by putting the clock in the DAC and slaving the PC to it.
Software crossovers
Type brutefir in google and all your questions will be answered. This thing works, I've used it, it's a bit geekish but once you get the hang of it, very powerful. That was why I chose Linux in the first place.
Now I have too much work right now to do electroncs and that's a pity, because I was building a series of amplifiers to play with software crossovers.
Well that was my opinion ! I hope it can help some of you in your quests.
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