I'm a Brit living in France and a few years ago I tried to enter as a second card a UK Visa one which is registered like my French bank card to my home address here in France.
Only when I said it was illegal to not recognise this perfectly valid c/card under EU law was it accepted.
So, I havn't bought anything on Ebay or used my Paypal account for about 18 moths. I log-on to buy something in the UK - first I find that my secondary delivery address in the UK has been deleted and when I tried to re-instate it I find I cannot complete the post code and even if I could would that be denied as well.
Why do I want to have stuff sometimes delivered to a UK address, I'll bet a lot of people know why - unbelieveable delivery costs from a lot of Ebay sellers who use the Ebay postal system, or simply want to make a second profit from stiffing the buyer who lives abroad. So, I get the item delivered to a family member who posts the item on to me here in France at a much lower cost.
Now Paypal have the barefaced cheek to openly say they will not accept any kind of card that is'nt French because I live in France.
This is still totally illegal under EU law. The UK is a member State and the EU is unequivocal on this - there must be no discrimination levied against a EU national anywhere within the EU.Paypal France is registered here in France but sadly like a few other big US companies thinks it can ride roughshod over EU law.
The reason for Paypal refusing to recognise this card is simple - they can't screw me for changing Euros into Sterling.
There is also a EU law that says IBAN transfers must be free within Euroland - really, try telling that to any EU country apart from Germany/Netherlands and I believe Denmark. Take a look at Ebay.de many sellers refuse to let people pay by Screwpal and accept only bank transfer, that way neither seller or buyer get screwed.
Let me give an example of sadly too many UK sellers - I want to buy a pack of 10 button batteries to power my Jennings jewellers scales, cost in the UK is 99 pence and free delivery in the UK and a ridiculous £6.89 to France. Contrast that with a company selling on Ebay.UK - Goo Gone 32oz at the lowest price available (£19.50) with a delivery price of only £4.70 also way below what other UK sellers charge and I can pay with a UK cheque - brilliant - I don't get screwed on currency exchange and the seller does'nt get screwed by Paypal.
I think there is a screamingly good opportunity to set up an alternative online selling platform with reasonable charges and an alternative to Screwpal. If you annualise both Ebay and Paypal charges they are nothing short of userous.
Only when I said it was illegal to not recognise this perfectly valid c/card under EU law was it accepted.
So, I havn't bought anything on Ebay or used my Paypal account for about 18 moths. I log-on to buy something in the UK - first I find that my secondary delivery address in the UK has been deleted and when I tried to re-instate it I find I cannot complete the post code and even if I could would that be denied as well.
Why do I want to have stuff sometimes delivered to a UK address, I'll bet a lot of people know why - unbelieveable delivery costs from a lot of Ebay sellers who use the Ebay postal system, or simply want to make a second profit from stiffing the buyer who lives abroad. So, I get the item delivered to a family member who posts the item on to me here in France at a much lower cost.
Now Paypal have the barefaced cheek to openly say they will not accept any kind of card that is'nt French because I live in France.
This is still totally illegal under EU law. The UK is a member State and the EU is unequivocal on this - there must be no discrimination levied against a EU national anywhere within the EU.Paypal France is registered here in France but sadly like a few other big US companies thinks it can ride roughshod over EU law.
The reason for Paypal refusing to recognise this card is simple - they can't screw me for changing Euros into Sterling.
There is also a EU law that says IBAN transfers must be free within Euroland - really, try telling that to any EU country apart from Germany/Netherlands and I believe Denmark. Take a look at Ebay.de many sellers refuse to let people pay by Screwpal and accept only bank transfer, that way neither seller or buyer get screwed.
Let me give an example of sadly too many UK sellers - I want to buy a pack of 10 button batteries to power my Jennings jewellers scales, cost in the UK is 99 pence and free delivery in the UK and a ridiculous £6.89 to France. Contrast that with a company selling on Ebay.UK - Goo Gone 32oz at the lowest price available (£19.50) with a delivery price of only £4.70 also way below what other UK sellers charge and I can pay with a UK cheque - brilliant - I don't get screwed on currency exchange and the seller does'nt get screwed by Paypal.
I think there is a screamingly good opportunity to set up an alternative online selling platform with reasonable charges and an alternative to Screwpal. If you annualise both Ebay and Paypal charges they are nothing short of userous.
Surprised at no responses to this thread.
An update - so far my two emails to Paypal have only generated standard computer replies. Today however I got sent an optional survey to fill in, which of course wanted to know what I thought of Paypal's response to my complaints. The laughable bit is - what did I think of the Paypal's representative and how he/she handled my complaints, except of course they did'nt use the word 'complaint'.
Quite simply they are point blank refusing to give any kind of answer at all, hoping I will just go away. Next move is to visit the big city and find the French justice dept. there and make a formal complaint - vamos a ver.
An update - so far my two emails to Paypal have only generated standard computer replies. Today however I got sent an optional survey to fill in, which of course wanted to know what I thought of Paypal's response to my complaints. The laughable bit is - what did I think of the Paypal's representative and how he/she handled my complaints, except of course they did'nt use the word 'complaint'.
Quite simply they are point blank refusing to give any kind of answer at all, hoping I will just go away. Next move is to visit the big city and find the French justice dept. there and make a formal complaint - vamos a ver.
Yes both Paypal and Ebay are problematic, and charge very high fees. Unfortunately they have grown so large, there are often not any good alternatives. But with any luck they will both go the way of MySpace (and Yahoo) etc. in a few years - or at least some competitors will force them to change..
Paypal Problems
Allow me to add another problem to the list...
Paypal continually "improves" the user interface. Actual truth be known, improve should be spelled "b-r-e-a-k-s". They make random changes and break functions, and wait for users to complain.
Worst one for me...There's a feature called "Ready to Ship". It would be very useful to have it working again...It shows whatever items have been ordered that don't have shipping information associated with them. I have reported this one as broken for a few months now...After a while, they acknowledge it as broken...then they make soothing noises about "how concerned they are"...and it still remains broken months later...despite multiple calls.
Allow me to add another problem to the list...
Paypal continually "improves" the user interface. Actual truth be known, improve should be spelled "b-r-e-a-k-s". They make random changes and break functions, and wait for users to complain.
Worst one for me...There's a feature called "Ready to Ship". It would be very useful to have it working again...It shows whatever items have been ordered that don't have shipping information associated with them. I have reported this one as broken for a few months now...After a while, they acknowledge it as broken...then they make soothing noises about "how concerned they are"...and it still remains broken months later...despite multiple calls.
Responses are exactly like I expected. For those Brits doing business internationally there is a UK bank that has an interesting account.
You can keep receipts from clients in Sterling/Euros/Yen and US$ and choose when and into what currency you want to transfer funds. If I mention the bank it might violate diyaudio rules so PM me.
You can keep receipts from clients in Sterling/Euros/Yen and US$ and choose when and into what currency you want to transfer funds. If I mention the bank it might violate diyaudio rules so PM me.
I buy stuff on eBay and have had no real problems with PayPal, but I am here in the U.S. American companies seem to have problems conforming with EU law and practice, (in most cases I suspect it is arrogance) in some cases doing so may also put them at odds with contradictory U.S. law.
The funny thing here is I purchase stuff from all over the world and pay reasonable shipping fees on the inbound side. If however I do the reverse I usually have issues with shipping expenses to other parts of the world, it is sort of difficult to understand.
I stopped selling on eBay years ago because of the changes in rules making it small seller unfriendly and the ridiculous fees. This benefits all of my close friends because I don't resell anything I am done with.
The funny thing here is I purchase stuff from all over the world and pay reasonable shipping fees on the inbound side. If however I do the reverse I usually have issues with shipping expenses to other parts of the world, it is sort of difficult to understand.
I stopped selling on eBay years ago because of the changes in rules making it small seller unfriendly and the ridiculous fees. This benefits all of my close friends because I don't resell anything I am done with.
I am not sure where you got that idea from, as long as you are not personally associated with a business it is OK to mention if you think it may be helpful to fellow members. I shamelessly plug my favorite people/businesses in appropriate circumstances that are relevant to the discussion, no reason not to imho.
You wouldn't believe the fees that ebay and paypal charge if you buy a car off ebay... haha its quite hilarious.
ebay gets their share, then paypal gets their share.
I've had monsterous fees applied when selling items on ebay too. at least 20%, minimum, goes missing when selling something on there. Its horrendous. And its all "free listings" this and "plenty of eyes" that. BS.
For example I sold a Yaesu FT-817ND on ebay recently and it sold for $590. Well that $90 went *poof*.
Its not that difficult to host some pictures on a website. where is the money going? all profit.
ebay gets their share, then paypal gets their share.
I've had monsterous fees applied when selling items on ebay too. at least 20%, minimum, goes missing when selling something on there. Its horrendous. And its all "free listings" this and "plenty of eyes" that. BS.
For example I sold a Yaesu FT-817ND on ebay recently and it sold for $590. Well that $90 went *poof*.
Its not that difficult to host some pictures on a website. where is the money going? all profit.
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One thing to remember with all this is that it is often illegal for paypal to accept monetary instruments from someone not linked to an institution in his country of residence.
Paypal are required by law, in most countries, to reject that. This is national law which is imposed on paypal because countries try to fight money laundering and tax evasion that could happen through multiple and alien paypal accounts.
So it's not just paypal's fault. Believe me, they want your business, but sometimes their hands are tied.
I do agree that paypal's communication skills in these matters are, shall we say, challenged.
Jan
Paypal are required by law, in most countries, to reject that. This is national law which is imposed on paypal because countries try to fight money laundering and tax evasion that could happen through multiple and alien paypal accounts.
So it's not just paypal's fault. Believe me, they want your business, but sometimes their hands are tied.
I do agree that paypal's communication skills in these matters are, shall we say, challenged.
Jan
Jan this is pure b/s.
I have a French debit card, which I have to pay an annual fee for, something I never had to do in the UK and I'm going back to the 1980s' with that. I could'nt believe the young bank manager when she asked me "why do you want a credit card", that was in 2009. When I told her that in the 1980s' in the UK I had 6 credit cards and used them to get instant cash for business that only cost me 2% that I paid off within a month and that I had £80K available to me whenever I wanted.
Banking in France and Europe as a whole is way behind the UK and they stiff you for charges that the Brits have never had to pay - closing an account you get charged
Iban transfers is what I would prefer to do in Euroland but the French banks stiff you even though it is illegal as do most other EU countries.
You don't seem to know that it is illegal for any countryn or organisation to discriminate against any person or institution that is a member of the EU. You should know that the UK is a member State of the EU, this status may well change in the near future but this is a fact as of now.
So my UK credit card is valid and can and has been used in other EU countries. It is only Paypal that is refusing to accept it, the reason must be obvious - because they can't screw me for currency exchange when I buy something in the UK.
You make a statement about multiple accounts - this has absolutely nothing to with this thread - I have one Paypal account which I've had for many years and just want to add another card and re-instate a delivery address that I had in the past.
The same goes for having a delivery address in the UK - many sellers are too lazy or too stupid to realise that they are losing lots of business because of the extortionate postal charges levied by Ebay. Just take a look at the comments from Ebay sellers on this thread.
You appear to me to be an apologist for the EU, do you work in any capacity for that corrupt organisation?
If governments and the EUn weren't in the pockets of big business they would have intervened long ago to stop the abusive practices of companies like Ebay/Paypal and Amazon. take Amazon, they are blatantly perpetrating a fraud in Europe - they charge the TVA/VAT rate of the country that a buyer lives in which is typically 19/20% but only pay 3% in Junker's Luxembourg - a tax haven right in the heart of the EU. The Dutch also operate as a tax haven for foreign nationals - U2, pay not a penny in their own land,Ireland.
As one poster pointed out - Ebay hammer the small seller. You want to sell vinyl on Amazon - take a look at the charges - the robber barons used to wear armour and employed soldiers to enforce their rule, now they wear crap Armani suits and employ lawyers - suck it up people.
I've started a thread on Vinyl Engine about people setting up small local audio fairs. It will take a bit of organising ie. to find suitable locations, certainly not difficult in most European countries, as these fairs should be non profit making. publicity - I intend to approach a radio station in Rodez, local tourist offices and the publicity board that every marie has in France. If successful then a lot of LPs/Cds/DVDs nd audio gear can be bought and sold locally - no lost post, no insurance to buy, see before buying, no fees and no currency costs. Probably no more than €50 to hire a small venue, maybe €5 per stall - check out the thread on VE. I got one professional seller who has tried to trash the idea - I wonder why.
I have a French debit card, which I have to pay an annual fee for, something I never had to do in the UK and I'm going back to the 1980s' with that. I could'nt believe the young bank manager when she asked me "why do you want a credit card", that was in 2009. When I told her that in the 1980s' in the UK I had 6 credit cards and used them to get instant cash for business that only cost me 2% that I paid off within a month and that I had £80K available to me whenever I wanted.
Banking in France and Europe as a whole is way behind the UK and they stiff you for charges that the Brits have never had to pay - closing an account you get charged
Iban transfers is what I would prefer to do in Euroland but the French banks stiff you even though it is illegal as do most other EU countries.
You don't seem to know that it is illegal for any countryn or organisation to discriminate against any person or institution that is a member of the EU. You should know that the UK is a member State of the EU, this status may well change in the near future but this is a fact as of now.
So my UK credit card is valid and can and has been used in other EU countries. It is only Paypal that is refusing to accept it, the reason must be obvious - because they can't screw me for currency exchange when I buy something in the UK.
You make a statement about multiple accounts - this has absolutely nothing to with this thread - I have one Paypal account which I've had for many years and just want to add another card and re-instate a delivery address that I had in the past.
The same goes for having a delivery address in the UK - many sellers are too lazy or too stupid to realise that they are losing lots of business because of the extortionate postal charges levied by Ebay. Just take a look at the comments from Ebay sellers on this thread.
You appear to me to be an apologist for the EU, do you work in any capacity for that corrupt organisation?
If governments and the EUn weren't in the pockets of big business they would have intervened long ago to stop the abusive practices of companies like Ebay/Paypal and Amazon. take Amazon, they are blatantly perpetrating a fraud in Europe - they charge the TVA/VAT rate of the country that a buyer lives in which is typically 19/20% but only pay 3% in Junker's Luxembourg - a tax haven right in the heart of the EU. The Dutch also operate as a tax haven for foreign nationals - U2, pay not a penny in their own land,Ireland.
As one poster pointed out - Ebay hammer the small seller. You want to sell vinyl on Amazon - take a look at the charges - the robber barons used to wear armour and employed soldiers to enforce their rule, now they wear crap Armani suits and employ lawyers - suck it up people.
I've started a thread on Vinyl Engine about people setting up small local audio fairs. It will take a bit of organising ie. to find suitable locations, certainly not difficult in most European countries, as these fairs should be non profit making. publicity - I intend to approach a radio station in Rodez, local tourist offices and the publicity board that every marie has in France. If successful then a lot of LPs/Cds/DVDs nd audio gear can be bought and sold locally - no lost post, no insurance to buy, see before buying, no fees and no currency costs. Probably no more than €50 to hire a small venue, maybe €5 per stall - check out the thread on VE. I got one professional seller who has tried to trash the idea - I wonder why.
Well I am only relaying my experiences when moving from Holland to Belgium and trying to maintain paypal accounts in both countries. I also tried to link a paypal account to a US bank account which also was not allowed. It may be that it depends on your country of residence, they surely all have their own ideas on how to fight money laundering.
I don't think that fighting the problem is helpful.
Jan
I don't think that fighting the problem is helpful.
Jan
All,
Since about two weeks, whenever I try to pay by PainPal on fleaBay, I am asked to allow a "standing order" on my bank account before I can even continue. That means, they can take money from my bank account without needing my acknowledgement. I don't want this, I have used a credit card with PayPal since more than 10 years. This barrier doesn't show up when I log in directly on the PayPal website?!?
And yes, IBAN transfers should be done without costs in the euro zone. It is that way in Belgium, at least. It's my preferred way of paying, banks already get enough money for free from the ECB.
Me too, I'm hoping for a few competitors of fleaBay growing strong enough to cause them worries.
Cheers,
Jacques
Since about two weeks, whenever I try to pay by PainPal on fleaBay, I am asked to allow a "standing order" on my bank account before I can even continue. That means, they can take money from my bank account without needing my acknowledgement. I don't want this, I have used a credit card with PayPal since more than 10 years. This barrier doesn't show up when I log in directly on the PayPal website?!?
And yes, IBAN transfers should be done without costs in the euro zone. It is that way in Belgium, at least. It's my preferred way of paying, banks already get enough money for free from the ECB.
Me too, I'm hoping for a few competitors of fleaBay growing strong enough to cause them worries.
Cheers,
Jacques
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Once again you miss the point - I'm not trying to maintain multiple accounts -you are. You keep on about money laundering - again totally irrelevant to this thread.
Why should'nt you use a US bank account if it's going to save you money - reason - because Paypal could'nt screw you for currency switching.
The EU is 'supposed' to institute laws that create a level playing field across all EU countries and here you go talking about 'individual countries with different rules'.
The EU started out as an idea by business men who all came from the same religious background. It grew from the European Iron and Coal federation. It was meant to make life easier and more profitable for big business.In that it has been very successful but for the ordinary western European people it is turning into a disaster.
Far too late it is 'attempting' to do something about the blatant tax frauds perpetrated on ordinary European people. If the EU was serious about protecting the legitimate rights of EU people I would never have had the need to create this thread would I?
Why should'nt you use a US bank account if it's going to save you money - reason - because Paypal could'nt screw you for currency switching.
The EU is 'supposed' to institute laws that create a level playing field across all EU countries and here you go talking about 'individual countries with different rules'.
The EU started out as an idea by business men who all came from the same religious background. It grew from the European Iron and Coal federation. It was meant to make life easier and more profitable for big business.In that it has been very successful but for the ordinary western European people it is turning into a disaster.
Far too late it is 'attempting' to do something about the blatant tax frauds perpetrated on ordinary European people. If the EU was serious about protecting the legitimate rights of EU people I would never have had the need to create this thread would I?
OK, I don't think this leads to anything worthwhile.
But to help with perspective: did you get that the EU fined Apple (or was it Intell?) for 1.5 billion euro? Wasn't Google being fined for 600 million then agreed to change their ripoff policy? Just saying.
But you appear to be hell bent on getting everything for free. Won't fly my friend. We all have to pay our installments on the new Lexus ;-)
all the best,
Jan
But to help with perspective: did you get that the EU fined Apple (or was it Intell?) for 1.5 billion euro? Wasn't Google being fined for 600 million then agreed to change their ripoff policy? Just saying.
But you appear to be hell bent on getting everything for free. Won't fly my friend. We all have to pay our installments on the new Lexus ;-)
all the best,
Jan
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