Hello all, I am new to this site and understand it is mainly for DIY but perhaps a few of you can help. I currently have a pair of Pass XA160 Mono's....not the .5 series, that were purchased in 2004. My confusion is going to a new X350.5 or staying where I am. Running a Pass X-1 pre and JM Lab Diva Utopia Beryllium speakers and a pair of Alto Utopia Berullium speakers(HT sooner or later.) The masses, including Kent at Pass Labs says it is a move in the right direction. Better detail on top, better space and dynamics with the 350.5. I have had all the original X series amps as well as a 250.5 before getting the XA160's. Can't afford to move to XA100.5 or the XA160.5's right now. Any opinions or members that have had both at some point? Thanks for the help all.
Most of the people here including myself are deperados so it is unlikely you will find someone who has owned both, except for Nelson that is.
I just checked the specs of those speakers.
Nominal impedance: 8Ohms - Good
Sensitivity: 90dB/2.83V - OK
Minimum impedance: 3 Ohms - Not so good
The .5 amps are better at driving difficult loads compared to the original XA amp. I would put your speakers in the difficult load category (not extemely difficult though)
The X350.5 is biased significantly higher (Almost double) than the X250.5. So just from a technical point of view and without actually hearing them the X350.5 does seem like a good match with your speakers.
I am sure Nelson will probably have something to say about it though.
Is there any chance you can demo the X350.5?
I just checked the specs of those speakers.
Nominal impedance: 8Ohms - Good
Sensitivity: 90dB/2.83V - OK
Minimum impedance: 3 Ohms - Not so good
The .5 amps are better at driving difficult loads compared to the original XA amp. I would put your speakers in the difficult load category (not extemely difficult though)
The X350.5 is biased significantly higher (Almost double) than the X250.5. So just from a technical point of view and without actually hearing them the X350.5 does seem like a good match with your speakers.
I am sure Nelson will probably have something to say about it though.
Is there any chance you can demo the X350.5?
Pass Amp Confusion
Thank you for the input and you are right. These speakers do have a big dip. I think I am going to pull the trigger in the 350.5. I wish I could audition it but can't. I love the looks of my XA160's but hate the heat. Love the smooth sound but miss the dynamics of more pore power. Thanks for the help, Pass says the 350.5 is a better match in terms of overall transparency, dynamics and space while maintaining a smooth sound. Thanks again for the informative response, I do appreciate it.
Thank you for the input and you are right. These speakers do have a big dip. I think I am going to pull the trigger in the 350.5. I wish I could audition it but can't. I love the looks of my XA160's but hate the heat. Love the smooth sound but miss the dynamics of more pore power. Thanks for the help, Pass says the 350.5 is a better match in terms of overall transparency, dynamics and space while maintaining a smooth sound. Thanks again for the informative response, I do appreciate it.
Sensitivity of the Diva Utopia Be is more like 87dB/W.m
Other option would be to upgrade to the later Utopia model, like the Scala, just a couple of inches higher and easier to drive.
Current model types are starting to come out secondhand for decent price levels, i'm in the market for buying the larger Maestro, provided i don't run into a fool who wants to part from a set of Stellas (plenty of fools out there).
Other option would be to upgrade to the later Utopia model, like the Scala, just a couple of inches higher and easier to drive.
Current model types are starting to come out secondhand for decent price levels, i'm in the market for buying the larger Maestro, provided i don't run into a fool who wants to part from a set of Stellas (plenty of fools out there).
Pass Labs Confusion!!!
You know, I have listened to the newer models but I prefer the sound of the older line for some reason which is why I am keeping the Alto Utopias as well. I did think about moving up though. I just sold the XA160's so I do hope the 350.5 works better for me. I love the mono's but I also like the simplicity of a single amp as well. The XA160's into a lower load will actually cut it's power in half so I don't know if they ever actually performed to spec in my system with the 3ohm dip. That was one reason they changed the XA160.5 because customers were complaining about that. If I wanted to go to a Sonus Faber Guenari or Amati, I would run into issues or the Dynaudio C2 was also a consideration. All 4ohm speakers! Besides the XA160's were bought in 2003 so they are aging but I got 6700.00 for them. Might as well sell them while I can get the good price and in a year or two, the X350.5 should still pull 6k or so and the one I am picking up is only 7 months old and the design.
You know, I have listened to the newer models but I prefer the sound of the older line for some reason which is why I am keeping the Alto Utopias as well. I did think about moving up though. I just sold the XA160's so I do hope the 350.5 works better for me. I love the mono's but I also like the simplicity of a single amp as well. The XA160's into a lower load will actually cut it's power in half so I don't know if they ever actually performed to spec in my system with the 3ohm dip. That was one reason they changed the XA160.5 because customers were complaining about that. If I wanted to go to a Sonus Faber Guenari or Amati, I would run into issues or the Dynaudio C2 was also a consideration. All 4ohm speakers! Besides the XA160's were bought in 2003 so they are aging but I got 6700.00 for them. Might as well sell them while I can get the good price and in a year or two, the X350.5 should still pull 6k or so and the one I am picking up is only 7 months old and the design.
The difference of locations on either side of a pond.
Overhere, an XA160 set did close to $30K, the write-off would balance a change of loudspeaker.
(Similar story with loudspeakers, on a different level, i gather. I built a number of Focal DIY loudspeakers since the '80s. For me, the Utopia 3 series is the first to really ring my bell)
Overhere, an XA160 set did close to $30K, the write-off would balance a change of loudspeaker.
(Similar story with loudspeakers, on a different level, i gather. I built a number of Focal DIY loudspeakers since the '80s. For me, the Utopia 3 series is the first to really ring my bell)
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WOW!!!! Do yo know anyone interested? lol.. 15k?? I did like the Diablo Utopia. Maybe it was because of the room.
This is mostly a matter of whether you feel you need the
additional power offered by the 350.5. If the XA160's
play the speakers loud enough for you, probably you could
sit tight with them for a while.
😎
additional power offered by the 350.5. If the XA160's
play the speakers loud enough for you, probably you could
sit tight with them for a while.
😎
Yes. There are also a few new products coming out of Pass Labs. It seems like they are single ended designs like the XA160 you already have.
However I would not be surprised if Nelson went the circlotron route capable of class B into low impedance loads.
Whatever is coming out it might be worth waiting for.
No need to rush this decision.
Mr. Pass, it is great to hear from you! I agree with you. I was going to keep them but there are two other factors that play into this and you covered one of them. There is a chance I may move to the Dynaudio C-2's for a journey with them. The other is the heat these beautiful mono's throw into my small 13x12 dedicated room. Am I correct in my assumption that there may be minimal sacrafice across the board by getting the 350.5? Are there any modifications available to the XA160? I assume not but it is worth a shot. Thank you for your input, it is greatly appreciated. Also, to melon head: I will look into this and thanks for the reply as well. I have been a dedicated Pass Labs used since 1998 going through the entire X series line-up through the X600's and some Aleph amps as well. Love it all! This my 14th Pass amp! I guess you can say I am a fan!
Let me just one note...The Pass Labs XA160 mono's are the best sounding amps I have heard regardless of designer. I don't see myself using anything but Pass amps and pre amps. Just too good!
Wow! 14th Pass amp ; that's some going. I'm still happy with my first Pass amp set up (X0 preamp, X1000 monoboblocks) so not changing anything anytime soon.
Don't get your hopes up too high
US manufacture is subject to transport costs across the Atlantic, 10% import tax is added, topped with 19% sales tax.
The importer/distributor wants his cut, and the retailer needs a decent profit margin.
Top end audio is a very scattered business overhere, usually there's a separate distributor for each country, in effect creating a smaller market within the borders.
So, dealers take a bigger risk, more often end up with demo models to sell at blank profit, requiring the dealer margin to be substantially larger.
Explains the fairly large DIY crowd overhere, compared to the US, plus why a decent number of folks import used/new US manufacture amps themselves.
With automobiles it's even worse, a $100K US car does +$250K overhere, due to additional luxury tax (plus a relatively small emission surcharge as of a few years ago).
The US government added a 10% luxury tax on boats in 1990, which wasted the boat business, so the pocketfilling idea was again abolished in 1994.
The price level of JM lab loudspeakers in the US is roughly at the same $/€ converted level as here, depreciation is likely higher here than in the US.
(ironic bit, MSRP levels of French gear in France are usually higher than overhere, due to tax differences)
So, excuse me for thinking € and cents, instead of plain bucks.
(the aging of '03 Class A power amps is also a relative issue for a DIY guy )
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Thanks for all that info...it is helpful for sure. The age of the amps was a concern of mine as well, almost 8 years now. I just sold them yesterday for $6800.00 U.S. dollars. I thought that was a good deal for me seeing as how I bought them for $5500.00 U.S. from my best friend who is the original owner. So I made 1300.00 U.S., not bad! I am bying a 1 year old X350.5 for $6500.00 and I think they are around $11,550.00 new, so I am pocketing $300.00 and I had the XA160's for about a year. I thin kI did well and moving in the right direction. Next year I will be looking at the XA100.5.
Thanks, I needed the sale. Funny, I had a lot of offers at full asking price, I most likely could have gotten 7k or 7500.00. There is a set of XA160.5's on Agon for 16k and XA100.5's for 10k. I am really looking forward to the X350.5 though. The two professional reviews are steller and I am betting I get better sound acroos the board. I am a midrange, detail and soundstage guy and from what I am reading the 350.5 is competitive with the new Pass mono's, probably they mean the X600.5 seeing as how they have realitively the same circuit design as I can't see the 350.5 coming very close to the XA.5. But those damn XA160.5's are 24k! I would like to stay married for just a little while longer! Hmmmmm....Wife or XA160.5's?????? At least the amps don't complain.
My turn : WOW, definitely your best friend.
Just a mental side step :
What if (after Katrina, GM & Chrysler, Madoff & Stanford, Lehman) Washington abolished second-home tax deduction of boat loans interest and introduced a deduction on loans for amps ?
Likely, within a couple of years, not a single yacht would occupy the everglades and the entire US population would have turned High End lover.
After 6-10 years, the US owner would sell his amp to an afficinado abroad, at zero net finance cost, leaving a 10% annual maintenance/electric bill. (the US superyacht market, in a nutshell)
NP would turn gazillionaire, and every US citizen would have a 2nd set of audio gear for the weekend.
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I will certainly let you know. I am finding it harder to part with the XA160's, I can't afford new XA160.5's or 100.5's right now so on to the X350.5. I have to deliver these next week so I am enjoying for a bit. Probably should just box em up! Sure hope the X350.5 is all they say it is and is supposed to be night and day difference to the original X350 as the new 350.5 is supposed to have the exact same input circuitry as the XA.5 amps. Well see and I will keep you posted for sure.
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