lumanauw said:
The issues I have are with real commercial operations, not
hobbyists. If the governments of some countries start respecting
the international IP conventions, this problem will be eased.
😎
Sort of OT and not meant as a bash... but an engineer walked into our place the other day and discussion starts regarding the trade gap with certain countries. His solution is education in math and science which is a reasonable response. So we educate our young and they become Edison's and Marconi's.
Great.
And their first invention has the IP hijacked and offered for sale at artificial currency rates. I'll save you the rant and you can read all about it here.
http://www.uscc.gov/annual_report/2005/executive_summary_05.pdf
Lastly, thanks to Nelson for his continued interest in this tiny hobby. He is unique in his willingness to share his ideas and offer suggestions to even the most ignorant among us... me being one!
Great.
And their first invention has the IP hijacked and offered for sale at artificial currency rates. I'll save you the rant and you can read all about it here.
http://www.uscc.gov/annual_report/2005/executive_summary_05.pdf
Lastly, thanks to Nelson for his continued interest in this tiny hobby. He is unique in his willingness to share his ideas and offer suggestions to even the most ignorant among us... me being one!
chipco3434 said:
Amen to that!
I don't think I've posted to the Pass Labs forum before, but I've read and learned a lot here over the last couple years. (Mostly, I like to keep my ingnorance to myself, but just thinking/dreaming through potential projects is useful in keeping the budget within bounds.) Even the flies on the wall thank you, Nelson, for sharing your ideas, time, and wit here.
I'm glad to hear that the problem is not caused by us hobbyists, even though the hobbyist community will perhaps suffer more than the commercial guys. I Nelson and all those at Pass Labs (well... maybe not the suits) the best success in working though it.
My personal silver lining in our collective loss is that I have decided to finally get off the dime and make that X-CCS-BOSOZ/Aleph P-style preamp that I've been thinking about for so long. Since the Aleph P service manual on my nightstand seems destined to be a collector's item (read: not available for sale or trade) I just hope that it's still legible under all the blue pencil notes!
When the preamp is finished, I will christen it properly with two bottles of "full-bodied red." One bottle will be consumed, as recommended, to help with burn-in. I will send the other to Nelson c/o Pass Labs as a small token of my appreciation and sympathy for his IP troubles.
-Bill
Nelson Pass said:
Hi Nelson,
Sad to hear that some ungrateful and dishonest characters make abuse of your generousity. I hope your men in suits will teach them a lesson, and that they wont be able to hide themselves behind their governments. Those bloody cowards!
At the same time I am glad that the stealing does not come from this Forum, because that would be even more shameful.
I guess that as long as you are presenting clever ideas on audio, there will always be some villain trying to steal it, whether you are participating in DIY or not.
Yet, if the presence of the Service Manuals on your website makes it more difficult to protect your rights (crazy world, isn't it?), then we can all fully understand your decision to take it away.
If an honest person really needs some information, he can always ask one of the members here to help him on that. That way we can all try to seperate the rotten grapes from the good ones.
So let's all continue to be alert here, and for the rest let us continue together with Passdiy with our wonderful passion; The nicest possible reproduction of music!
Cheers,
Lucas
In my view a truly honest person does not demand anything from anybody. So, we could ask ourselves this question why we do.
Given the fact that we are the product of our collective thoughts and actually and factually no thought can be called our own, there is no such thing as IP. It is an illusion we have created and in it's core it creates division. And we do everything to keep this illusion alive! That in itself is violence. If others do not respect our rights, whatever it may be, we use violence through force.
Two people can discover the same thing although miles away from each other. Simply because they tap into the collective thought energy. Now, who of these two can call this discovery or invention his IP?? None!
Our societies are based upon competition and this is one of the reasons why conflict is always the outcome of all our actions. Think it over.
Given the fact that we are the product of our collective thoughts and actually and factually no thought can be called our own, there is no such thing as IP. It is an illusion we have created and in it's core it creates division. And we do everything to keep this illusion alive! That in itself is violence. If others do not respect our rights, whatever it may be, we use violence through force.
Two people can discover the same thing although miles away from each other. Simply because they tap into the collective thought energy. Now, who of these two can call this discovery or invention his IP?? None!
Our societies are based upon competition and this is one of the reasons why conflict is always the outcome of all our actions. Think it over.
well,... Mr. Pass was smart enough to be the first to tap into the
"Collective Thought Energy" and reveal to the rest of us the Aleph and other neat things.
Seeing as he and everyone else that works for Pass Labs has to feed
his family, clothe the kids, and pay the rent - they have a vested interest
in protecting their IP.
And if you had the first clue about Mr. Pass you would know that he
shares his thougths quite freely.
Go preach your honesty to the thieves, not the teacher.
"Collective Thought Energy" and reveal to the rest of us the Aleph and other neat things.
Seeing as he and everyone else that works for Pass Labs has to feed
his family, clothe the kids, and pay the rent - they have a vested interest
in protecting their IP.
And if you had the first clue about Mr. Pass you would know that he
shares his thougths quite freely.
Go preach your honesty to the thieves, not the teacher.
moe29 said:
Moe,
you've just been elected for the title: "Not just another idiot"
Ever seen the Monty Python tv show: Spot the Loony ?
Moe29,
Late me state clearly that I do not judge nor condemn anyone here. I just point out the facts as they are.
Nelson shares "his" knowledge freely and in this sense he and others which also do, are an exception.
I do not expect anyone to understand what I have written, but on the other hand it is not rocket science. It's even easier than electronics. I merely pointed out the absurdity of an illusion called IP. I'm not trying to win anybody for my point of view, so I'm not a preacher.
The fact remains, wether you or anyone else try to brush it aside.
It takes a lot of courage and honesty to face the facts as they are.
Can you do that??
Late me state clearly that I do not judge nor condemn anyone here. I just point out the facts as they are.
Nelson shares "his" knowledge freely and in this sense he and others which also do, are an exception.
I do not expect anyone to understand what I have written, but on the other hand it is not rocket science. It's even easier than electronics. I merely pointed out the absurdity of an illusion called IP. I'm not trying to win anybody for my point of view, so I'm not a preacher.
The fact remains, wether you or anyone else try to brush it aside.
It takes a lot of courage and honesty to face the facts as they are.
Can you do that??
It is in the very act of applying abstract concepts to a disorderly world that man brings order out of chaos. To deny that abstract concepts have validity is to deny civilization. To make progress of any meaningful sort requires the application of a commonly agreed framework to the universe.
Can you do that?
Grey
Can you do that?
Grey
Franklin said:
When they put your name on it and pretend that it came from
your factory, I think even you might draw a line.
Nelson Pass said:
Even given the fact that patent and copyright regulations to some extent do vary from country to country, a case like this is crystal clear in any country that poses to have legislation- making it hold up in court is unfortunately sometimes quite another story.
The simple fact that Mr.Pass has revealed some if his work to the public is quite far from condoning a commercial exploitment of the same ideas.
Having worked in EE for over 30 years, albeit with audio as a hobby, I have to say I have been very intrigued by the way NP has supported the DIY community, where I feel quite certain that most of us truly have this as a hobby and nothing else. But as with any crate of apples, one must assumme the possibilities of a few rotten ones, but hope for the best.
Those of us who have been frequenting this forum for some time, are mostly aware of the case in question. We can all just hope for "status quo" to be restored some time in the future, so that we can continue to be inspirerd. The exchange of ideas among people is the only way to increase knowledge in any trade or topic, also among socalled professionals. Even if after 30 years in the trade, and knowing that I really do know quite a lot, I fully realise that I by far still don't know it all. The moment you do, you are truly done for - and better order your woody box. I thank NP for the inspiration he has been sofar, and hope for the best.
i should be banned!
...after all the years i've been on the internet...
and i still fed the troll.
(it's just so hard not to some times!)
...after all the years i've been on the internet...
and i still fed the troll.
(it's just so hard not to some times!)
Re: i should be banned!
No need to tell you on what side I stand if the above would make you doubt.
/Hugo 🙂
A fruitful exchange of different ideas is not necessarily bad even when controversial.moe29 said:
No need to tell you on what side I stand if the above would make you doubt.
/Hugo 🙂
Grey,
I think what we do is exactly the opposite, creating chaos in the natural order. Look at the state of this world we live in, now that's what I call chaos.
Nelson,
Don't get me wrong as some still do. I have nothing against you or anyone else. I understand your concern but cannot and will not judge what is right or wrong. I just point out that basically there's something very wrong with our societies. And as most cannot see the whole picture I'm trying to frame, it does not change the validity of what I point out. I often see a statement you made saying: "Legal is what anyone can get away with" (correct me if I'm wrong), but I hope you realize that this statement is valid on both sides of the camp.
As a member of this forum and given the topic in this thread I think I'm entitled to point out , as honestly as I can, what I see, without pointing fingers at you or anyone else. It is a general observation and should be understood as such. No more, no less.
I admire your support of the DIY community as one of the few who really share and once more regret that those who have not understood what I'm trying to point out, have taken it personally.
I think what we do is exactly the opposite, creating chaos in the natural order. Look at the state of this world we live in, now that's what I call chaos.
Nelson,
Don't get me wrong as some still do. I have nothing against you or anyone else. I understand your concern but cannot and will not judge what is right or wrong. I just point out that basically there's something very wrong with our societies. And as most cannot see the whole picture I'm trying to frame, it does not change the validity of what I point out. I often see a statement you made saying: "Legal is what anyone can get away with" (correct me if I'm wrong), but I hope you realize that this statement is valid on both sides of the camp.
As a member of this forum and given the topic in this thread I think I'm entitled to point out , as honestly as I can, what I see, without pointing fingers at you or anyone else. It is a general observation and should be understood as such. No more, no less.
I admire your support of the DIY community as one of the few who really share and once more regret that those who have not understood what I'm trying to point out, have taken it personally.
😕 😕 😕
Isn't this a thread about Nelsons decision to try to protect himself and his company?
....or are we looking for the meaning of life here....😕
Isn't this a thread about Nelsons decision to try to protect himself and his company?
....or are we looking for the meaning of life here....😕
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