Hi guys. Aint been here in a while. Been doing my own work here on this project. Had to go back to drawing board twice till I had a apifomy. Parallel light is good and all when these two ideal conditions are met. Unfortunatly nothing is perfect in life.
When the image being projected is the same size as the Parallel light beam thrown from light source.
When the objective lens is the same size as the image being projected from stage.
Neitehr will usually be the case. The solution? Elementary really.
Large bulb in my case. Most dismissed as no focasible. Im here to tell you after my rescent experiments last night/today that is pure BS. No matter bulb size you can still focus is somewhat its just a matter of reflector size. Other falsehoods being that Reflector must be similar size as LCd panel. NO, no, no. I lost so much time thinking that! Larger is better for large bulb. Soup laddle at best even if p light amde will only beam back maaybe 20-30% more light. Not enuff. And thats when ideal, usually 10% gain. Way not enuff. Without super close bulb placement you need a larger same shaped unit. I actually made a reflector large that is 16" long by 14" tall and focuses light down to a cone at 16" throw (ohp lens distance). Looks like a dange laser beam. The light beam is only about 1" wide at objective lens. IMPORTANT as most light gets onto screen this way. thats what counts. Lighting panel bright does nothing if it dont get through lens to screen.
I have pics to post later-its so simple you will be surprised. Only the lateral band is done. THe H band of ref will be next but since tube bulb not as much gain from it anyhow.
Ive used prism films to bend light p after angle. Every combo of lens I could find available online to me. And this paid off most. A focsible light beam-by moveing bulb on troacks I can go from almost perfect P to a projected beam WITHOUT the use of a single lens.
Adding lenses just helps but thats another matter. Remember back to square one.
Point is I took the light as one project. Focused bulb into Objective lens. Then worked on getting image focused into cone to lens. MASSIVE differences. All this babling dont help you guys I know but I was so excited I just had to tell ya all somthing. So much info here in my projector diary I started I just dont know where to start telling from. Guess how I outlined the basic OHP for fundimentals on projecting a larger image through smaller lens-then onto how light convergence is 1000 times more improtant than anything else. It causes glare-light loss-diminishing light over large distance rapidly-light not getting into panel of lens-so many losses now wonder not bright that way..Got more to do. Its 6:45 A.M. here up at 4 am to get this started today. I will not give up. After almost 2 years Im getting real prgress. And the total key is that simple reflector. Its all at the source it needs controled. The rest is just bonuses. Ill wait to go into more detail step by ste once pics up Im sure they will be questions. Im no rocket scientist here-but it was like looking for your glasses when they are right on your face.
For the record I see some here mistake parallel light and polarised light as being the same. They are not Polarity is the wave form of the light. There are two one absorbed as heat by panel Or reflected by prisem film(better) and other passes on. To make a filter its like cutting slits in paper and stops other wave from passing. really it is. Parallel light just means no cone shape-light travel streight forward..... which actually isnt what you want. You want a cone shape. From light to lens. F1 must be at OHP mirror so smallest point full image gets through len-mirror-lens-screen. Trace light with white paper. Between that a simple led bulb (point studies) a flashlight (reflector focal lenght studies) some mirrors and a laser beam-for light tracing Ive learned more in this week alone then 2 years ****ing with it. My 3m film Ive had since I first joined here (some may remember I got them to send me samples when this stuff was questioned) is still under study. May or may not work. But to change P of light must be relected by non metalic surface-entraped and reflected. Overwhelming if not taken in steps like the simple light problem. So one step at a time. Just say-3m kicks **** and the films do what the say. just a matter of incorperating them into the ref.
Sorry for babling will post back -got some more tests here to do today.
P.S. I used to be known here as "Tinker" for those older members that know me maybe. ANd No-it looks better in real life crap from me. I have a $1000 Sony handy cam that takes wonderfull pics in the dark or light. Night vision is nice. So will show light cone I made from a LARGE 175watt MH MU bulb. These are the big boys with outter UV envelope. AND IT STILL FOCUSES. So if i can achieve this with that, a small bulb-oh my GOD....that comes MUCH later.😀
When the image being projected is the same size as the Parallel light beam thrown from light source.
When the objective lens is the same size as the image being projected from stage.
Neitehr will usually be the case. The solution? Elementary really.
Large bulb in my case. Most dismissed as no focasible. Im here to tell you after my rescent experiments last night/today that is pure BS. No matter bulb size you can still focus is somewhat its just a matter of reflector size. Other falsehoods being that Reflector must be similar size as LCd panel. NO, no, no. I lost so much time thinking that! Larger is better for large bulb. Soup laddle at best even if p light amde will only beam back maaybe 20-30% more light. Not enuff. And thats when ideal, usually 10% gain. Way not enuff. Without super close bulb placement you need a larger same shaped unit. I actually made a reflector large that is 16" long by 14" tall and focuses light down to a cone at 16" throw (ohp lens distance). Looks like a dange laser beam. The light beam is only about 1" wide at objective lens. IMPORTANT as most light gets onto screen this way. thats what counts. Lighting panel bright does nothing if it dont get through lens to screen.
I have pics to post later-its so simple you will be surprised. Only the lateral band is done. THe H band of ref will be next but since tube bulb not as much gain from it anyhow.
Ive used prism films to bend light p after angle. Every combo of lens I could find available online to me. And this paid off most. A focsible light beam-by moveing bulb on troacks I can go from almost perfect P to a projected beam WITHOUT the use of a single lens.
Adding lenses just helps but thats another matter. Remember back to square one.Point is I took the light as one project. Focused bulb into Objective lens. Then worked on getting image focused into cone to lens. MASSIVE differences. All this babling dont help you guys I know but I was so excited I just had to tell ya all somthing. So much info here in my projector diary I started I just dont know where to start telling from. Guess how I outlined the basic OHP for fundimentals on projecting a larger image through smaller lens-then onto how light convergence is 1000 times more improtant than anything else. It causes glare-light loss-diminishing light over large distance rapidly-light not getting into panel of lens-so many losses now wonder not bright that way..Got more to do. Its 6:45 A.M. here up at 4 am to get this started today. I will not give up. After almost 2 years Im getting real prgress. And the total key is that simple reflector. Its all at the source it needs controled. The rest is just bonuses. Ill wait to go into more detail step by ste once pics up Im sure they will be questions. Im no rocket scientist here-but it was like looking for your glasses when they are right on your face.
For the record I see some here mistake parallel light and polarised light as being the same. They are not Polarity is the wave form of the light. There are two one absorbed as heat by panel Or reflected by prisem film(better) and other passes on. To make a filter its like cutting slits in paper and stops other wave from passing. really it is. Parallel light just means no cone shape-light travel streight forward..... which actually isnt what you want. You want a cone shape. From light to lens. F1 must be at OHP mirror so smallest point full image gets through len-mirror-lens-screen. Trace light with white paper. Between that a simple led bulb (point studies) a flashlight (reflector focal lenght studies) some mirrors and a laser beam-for light tracing Ive learned more in this week alone then 2 years ****ing with it. My 3m film Ive had since I first joined here (some may remember I got them to send me samples when this stuff was questioned) is still under study. May or may not work. But to change P of light must be relected by non metalic surface-entraped and reflected. Overwhelming if not taken in steps like the simple light problem. So one step at a time. Just say-3m kicks **** and the films do what the say. just a matter of incorperating them into the ref.
Sorry for babling will post back -got some more tests here to do today.
P.S. I used to be known here as "Tinker" for those older members that know me maybe. ANd No-it looks better in real life crap from me. I have a $1000 Sony handy cam that takes wonderfull pics in the dark or light. Night vision is nice. So will show light cone I made from a LARGE 175watt MH MU bulb. These are the big boys with outter UV envelope. AND IT STILL FOCUSES. So if i can achieve this with that, a small bulb-oh my GOD....that comes MUCH later.😀
altec
heya altec or tinker as i know u from, hmmm seems like me and u have been doing the same thing, i actually aproched the light as a separate project too and as u know u dont need a lcd to know if things will work, like me u have also tried the focus the light to the projection lens, i actually got about 300lm ansi out of a tv monitor with just a 2550lm halogen bulb lol and ya it does work great, but u can get hot spots with that method, but in my opinion its the brightest and most intense way, now with u going on about paralelle light rays they need to be parallel from the reflector to the condenser, the condenser changes the rays into the cone shape as u call it, then the light goes through frensel at paralelle cos the frensel bends them back to paralelle , ( not all frensels will do this as most of our optics in here arent properly matched) then goes through lcd more or less paralle before it goes back to a cone shape to the projection lens, now when it hits the projection lens it is back to another shaped cone, this depends on the power and focal of the projection lens for the shape of the cone, the cone on the wall reflected back at u is the image, the way i do things is similar to yours, i have tried manny things fulltime in these past months and had many interesting and rewarding resaults, but what i have found that if u focus the light to the frensel then u loose alot of light and its more diffused and glary, if u focus the light to the projection lens its very very bright, clear and u get one hell of a throw distance because the light seems more intense, u are also right about the big bulbs getting focaused, i can get precision reflectors that are lab quality that are 2, 3, 4 , or 5inch in diameter with focals upto 18inches, that would give u a spot beam right to the projection lens but there is more to it than that, i have the reflector focused to the condenser, (ive tried heaps) then the condenser to the projection lens, the frensel acts like a backing on the lcd so that u dont see the light bulb in the projected image, however not with all bulbs this is the case as still with some ie halogen u will see the element in the bulb, mh seams to be fine, anyway bud keep at it and send us your resaults and happy diy.
Trev
heya altec or tinker as i know u from, hmmm seems like me and u have been doing the same thing, i actually aproched the light as a separate project too and as u know u dont need a lcd to know if things will work, like me u have also tried the focus the light to the projection lens, i actually got about 300lm ansi out of a tv monitor with just a 2550lm halogen bulb lol and ya it does work great, but u can get hot spots with that method, but in my opinion its the brightest and most intense way, now with u going on about paralelle light rays they need to be parallel from the reflector to the condenser, the condenser changes the rays into the cone shape as u call it, then the light goes through frensel at paralelle cos the frensel bends them back to paralelle , ( not all frensels will do this as most of our optics in here arent properly matched) then goes through lcd more or less paralle before it goes back to a cone shape to the projection lens, now when it hits the projection lens it is back to another shaped cone, this depends on the power and focal of the projection lens for the shape of the cone, the cone on the wall reflected back at u is the image, the way i do things is similar to yours, i have tried manny things fulltime in these past months and had many interesting and rewarding resaults, but what i have found that if u focus the light to the frensel then u loose alot of light and its more diffused and glary, if u focus the light to the projection lens its very very bright, clear and u get one hell of a throw distance because the light seems more intense, u are also right about the big bulbs getting focaused, i can get precision reflectors that are lab quality that are 2, 3, 4 , or 5inch in diameter with focals upto 18inches, that would give u a spot beam right to the projection lens but there is more to it than that, i have the reflector focused to the condenser, (ive tried heaps) then the condenser to the projection lens, the frensel acts like a backing on the lcd so that u dont see the light bulb in the projected image, however not with all bulbs this is the case as still with some ie halogen u will see the element in the bulb, mh seams to be fine, anyway bud keep at it and send us your resaults and happy diy.
Trev
altec
just another small experiment i did and that was actually magnifying the light source, somthing for u to try and u will definatley see the difference in that lol
Trev
just another small experiment i did and that was actually magnifying the light source, somthing for u to try and u will definatley see the difference in that lol
Trev
ace3000_1
Cool. Sounds like we are thinking alike here. About Reflector light being Parallel to lcd. Your right. What I actually did was use a eliptical reflector. The bulb area, about 20% of its radius is in a Parallel light config. As in larger circular radius of about 5". Its reflected streight on I noticed. THe rest is caught be the eliptical shape and projected as a cone. So its getting mor ein there. Guess it would be a mix of both then eh... so your right. The cone I get just gains back some that would have def been lost. For the Parallel light I came up with a formula I have yet to disprove.
Formula:
When the incident from light source is at a 45% its reflected streight forward. We know this. So take your bulb-trace on papaer even if need be. Till the bulb sits centered in large circle-AND the larger circle' 1/8 of diameter PERFECTLY matches with the bulb center. Onc eyou have that-EVERY incident of light from there back to other 180% will be forward projected. To change beam just slide bulb back towards back of circle-you know have spot light. Move back towards center-you know have P light. This only captures 180o of light (not really but just to get image in mind) so the rest still lost. This is where the V shape kicks in. THe remaining parameter of blub needs the V shape as it will also either reflect forward of beam. I found my RF that allow P light from all sides bulb in ref so perfect combo of both the outer V shape and the inner O shape to bulb size..
Condesor
I used it before. But since this is back to square one now-havent used it yet. Was more concerned about the actual RAW light first. The big prob I hav eis I bought these super powerfull ones. THey are only about 2 1/2" diameter. The beam so intense it might burn paper----- BUt the focal lenght is all wrong for my setup, and I can find no way around it yet. Else I would have it in there to gain the light thrown from front of bulb as that is the ONLY way to gather and contol it being out of range of my reflector. Know what I mean-I think you do. My OHP lenses and first surface mirror are matched. The fres. was burned though that went to it. Contacting somone today for replacment hopefully. Its a old apollo one. I would really like the exact matching lenses cause I know they are extremly important for focus and throw. I figure about $30 american for one. Sound right? This stage was like 8x super fine line grooved fres. Even with center burned it gathers lots of light. (the origianl owner had fan jam-600watt halogen projector so it burned-but I got it free then). Im also looking into a 10" pc lcd monitor I found that comes with PC controler card for only $60! Might order TODAY. Most PC mons are pretty easy to dissasemble. If not my Girlfriend can use it for tv when the power goes out and I crank up the generator.. LOL.
P.S. thanks for the responce AND the encouragment.🙂
Cool. Sounds like we are thinking alike here. About Reflector light being Parallel to lcd. Your right. What I actually did was use a eliptical reflector. The bulb area, about 20% of its radius is in a Parallel light config. As in larger circular radius of about 5". Its reflected streight on I noticed. THe rest is caught be the eliptical shape and projected as a cone. So its getting mor ein there. Guess it would be a mix of both then eh... so your right. The cone I get just gains back some that would have def been lost. For the Parallel light I came up with a formula I have yet to disprove.
Formula:
When the incident from light source is at a 45% its reflected streight forward. We know this. So take your bulb-trace on papaer even if need be. Till the bulb sits centered in large circle-AND the larger circle' 1/8 of diameter PERFECTLY matches with the bulb center. Onc eyou have that-EVERY incident of light from there back to other 180% will be forward projected. To change beam just slide bulb back towards back of circle-you know have spot light. Move back towards center-you know have P light. This only captures 180o of light (not really but just to get image in mind) so the rest still lost. This is where the V shape kicks in. THe remaining parameter of blub needs the V shape as it will also either reflect forward of beam. I found my RF that allow P light from all sides bulb in ref so perfect combo of both the outer V shape and the inner O shape to bulb size..
Condesor
I used it before. But since this is back to square one now-havent used it yet. Was more concerned about the actual RAW light first. The big prob I hav eis I bought these super powerfull ones. THey are only about 2 1/2" diameter. The beam so intense it might burn paper----- BUt the focal lenght is all wrong for my setup, and I can find no way around it yet. Else I would have it in there to gain the light thrown from front of bulb as that is the ONLY way to gather and contol it being out of range of my reflector. Know what I mean-I think you do. My OHP lenses and first surface mirror are matched. The fres. was burned though that went to it. Contacting somone today for replacment hopefully. Its a old apollo one. I would really like the exact matching lenses cause I know they are extremly important for focus and throw. I figure about $30 american for one. Sound right? This stage was like 8x super fine line grooved fres. Even with center burned it gathers lots of light. (the origianl owner had fan jam-600watt halogen projector so it burned-but I got it free then). Im also looking into a 10" pc lcd monitor I found that comes with PC controler card for only $60! Might order TODAY. Most PC mons are pretty easy to dissasemble. If not my Girlfriend can use it for tv when the power goes out and I crank up the generator.. LOL.
P.S. thanks for the responce AND the encouragment.🙂
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