I'm talking about the XR-10/25/45/50 series that have fully digital (equibit) amps. I know that some people are using these but I haven't seen any details on mods, or any internal pictures. I'm very interested to hear more!
I've heard that it is relatively easy to tap the ADC digital output to get 6-channel digital inputs. Are the output amps modular? Would it be easy to tap the digital lines immediately before the amps to get digital outputs as well? (6.1 channel processor with volume control and digital outs for $200 + mods, not too shabby)
I've heard that it is relatively easy to tap the ADC digital output to get 6-channel digital inputs. Are the output amps modular? Would it be easy to tap the digital lines immediately before the amps to get digital outputs as well? (6.1 channel processor with volume control and digital outs for $200 + mods, not too shabby)
Do a search on "Brian Brown" and you'll find out everything you need to know. Brian has thoroughly dissected the XR10 and is the person who first posted about interfacing the multichannel SACD/DVD player with the XR10.
Very cool stuff - Pat
Very cool stuff - Pat
Everything dealing with grabbing the I2S signals is much easier on the XR10 than the other units, as the XR10 uses a ribbon cable to join the dsp board to the amp board. On the XR25/45 the boards are vertically stacked and joined using SMT connectors. I suspect that it's possible to grab the digital signals here too, but it'll be more work. The service manuals are essential.
The biggest downside to the above is of course that the XR10 is 5.1 only, giving only 5 amp channels, or straight 5.1 DD/DTS output.
The biggest downside to the above is of course that the XR10 is 5.1 only, giving only 5 amp channels, or straight 5.1 DD/DTS output.
XR10s can be had for cheap, especially because folks got real excited about the XR45, and that became the one you had to have.
I've got two, and might get one more. Then my dream setup would involve finding someone with the required skills (trust me, not me) to do the following:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36252&highlight=
and use the DCX to feed three XR10s in a triamp system, using one remote for volume control. And then I'd just retire from the audio hobby. No, really. - Pat
I've got two, and might get one more. Then my dream setup would involve finding someone with the required skills (trust me, not me) to do the following:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36252&highlight=
and use the DCX to feed three XR10s in a triamp system, using one remote for volume control. And then I'd just retire from the audio hobby. No, really. - Pat
Tubesguy--appreciate the link and I really admire Brian's project.
dwk123--this is exactly the info I wanted. Thanks! Do you speak from personal experience with this amp? I've had success in the past with nothing more than a logic probe; especially if there is a connector or separate board, there are only so many signals that need to be investigated. The next big problem is whether or not there are some nice SMD resistors or similar that can be used as solder points.
dwk123--this is exactly the info I wanted. Thanks! Do you speak from personal experience with this amp? I've had success in the past with nothing more than a logic probe; especially if there is a connector or separate board, there are only so many signals that need to be investigated. The next big problem is whether or not there are some nice SMD resistors or similar that can be used as solder points.
Our posts crossed there Tubeguy. I have similar desires to you; I'm currently using a pair of DEQX for mains/center/sub EQ and have no desire to lose the digital in/out. I'm using a digital processor that I modded for 6-channel digital out.
One of the interesting things is that it is not necessary to reduplicate the amps if you can feed your own I2S stream to the modules--instead of "wasting" the extra channels they can be put to use.
How cheap have you seen 10s for? It might not be worth the effort depending on price.
One of the interesting things is that it is not necessary to reduplicate the amps if you can feed your own I2S stream to the modules--instead of "wasting" the extra channels they can be put to use.
How cheap have you seen 10s for? It might not be worth the effort depending on price.
I think I got one for $125 and the other for $139, both on ebay. That's cheap enough even for me. I could sell my Vendetta and buy 15 of 'em.
My holy grail is to do everything involving any signal manipulation, from EQ to crossover to volume control, digitally and send it on to these receivers, or, as you point out, to a receiver. I've also got a DEQ on the way to do DRC.
And to think I used to build SE tube amps and use Lowthers. Sheesh, what was I thinking?! (Just kidding, folks.) - Pat
My holy grail is to do everything involving any signal manipulation, from EQ to crossover to volume control, digitally and send it on to these receivers, or, as you point out, to a receiver. I've also got a DEQ on the way to do DRC.
And to think I used to build SE tube amps and use Lowthers. Sheesh, what was I thinking?! (Just kidding, folks.) - Pat
Tiroth, I have an XR10 and two XR25's. The only real work I've done myself is to convert one of my XR25's to use battery power - I run it off a single 12V SLA. It puts out ~8 watts in this config, but sounds great.
I haven't spent a lot of time on the reverse-engineering side, but did do some preliminary signal tracing, and it's not inherently obvious where the signals run. This isn't to say that it's not possible to do it without the manual, but if the service manual is available and is cheap, it'd probably save you lots of headaches.
Anyone looking at hacking/moding the Panasonics should keep in mind that the TI eval module only runs $500, and has the I2S headers right there. You need a power supply, but that's easy as long as you can get away with batteries 🙂
I haven't spent a lot of time on the reverse-engineering side, but did do some preliminary signal tracing, and it's not inherently obvious where the signals run. This isn't to say that it's not possible to do it without the manual, but if the service manual is available and is cheap, it'd probably save you lots of headaches.
Anyone looking at hacking/moding the Panasonics should keep in mind that the TI eval module only runs $500, and has the I2S headers right there. You need a power supply, but that's easy as long as you can get away with batteries 🙂
tiroth -
You've probably already seen this in one of Brian's posts in "Anyone interested in a digital amplifier project" but, if not, you can order the manual for an XR10 from Panny at 1-800-833-9626, and it's #AD0207128C1. Brian says it's about $7.
By the way, which digital processor did you mod for 6 digital channels out? - Pat
You've probably already seen this in one of Brian's posts in "Anyone interested in a digital amplifier project" but, if not, you can order the manual for an XR10 from Panny at 1-800-833-9626, and it's #AD0207128C1. Brian says it's about $7.
By the way, which digital processor did you mod for 6 digital channels out? - Pat
Neat, thanks.
I modded an SH-AC300 for digital out. Very easy mod, just grabbed the signals before the DAC. I even just used a single circuit board and stacked the transmitters on top of each other! No volume control though; I use an APOX rig for that.
I'm interested in upgrading to a processor with better bass management and support for the rear center channel though. The only thing holding me back from all-digital is the crossover; since I only need a couple of IIR poles I'm loathe to shell out $400 for the Behringer, especially since I would have to mod it for digital out. It isn't hard but it sure is time consuming. Maybe Brian will post a TAS3000 project yet...
I modded an SH-AC300 for digital out. Very easy mod, just grabbed the signals before the DAC. I even just used a single circuit board and stacked the transmitters on top of each other! No volume control though; I use an APOX rig for that.
I'm interested in upgrading to a processor with better bass management and support for the rear center channel though. The only thing holding me back from all-digital is the crossover; since I only need a couple of IIR poles I'm loathe to shell out $400 for the Behringer, especially since I would have to mod it for digital out. It isn't hard but it sure is time consuming. Maybe Brian will post a TAS3000 project yet...
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