I have a newbie speaker painting question, that I searched for but can't find an answer to.
In short, I have applied 3 coats of sealer and 6 coats of satin black paint to my speakers, with all of the proper sanding and such. Now I want to add a couple layers of polyerathane. Do I have to do anything (sand?) the last layer of black paint before adding the erathane? Or do I just leave it as is?
Just don't want to screw it up this late in the process.
Thanks
In short, I have applied 3 coats of sealer and 6 coats of satin black paint to my speakers, with all of the proper sanding and such. Now I want to add a couple layers of polyerathane. Do I have to do anything (sand?) the last layer of black paint before adding the erathane? Or do I just leave it as is?
Just don't want to screw it up this late in the process.
Thanks
Some say flat the paint before lacquer, others say don't. Personally I don't flat it because it's more work and the risk of making a mistake is there. If your topcoat looks OK then leave it and just lacquer. I have not had a problem with this method. Then again I don't paint loads of things all the time.
On a similar topic, but not different enough to warrant a new thread:
I want to paint parts of my cabinet Piano Black, and leave other parts Natural Maple in color. I was planning on painting the Pieces black and sanding them to the correct level, then assembling the entire enclosure. Then once assembled, I would spray the entire cabinet with Poly.
3 Questions:
1. Will this work out fine?
2. Should I use a wood Poly or a normal paint poly or both(i.e. a few coats of wood poly on wood, then normal painting poly over everything.
3. What is the best type of paint? I was planning on using Automotive in my booth, but is there anything else that works considerably better?
Perhaps a Piano Black Tutorial would be best, is there one online?
I want to paint parts of my cabinet Piano Black, and leave other parts Natural Maple in color. I was planning on painting the Pieces black and sanding them to the correct level, then assembling the entire enclosure. Then once assembled, I would spray the entire cabinet with Poly.
3 Questions:
1. Will this work out fine?
2. Should I use a wood Poly or a normal paint poly or both(i.e. a few coats of wood poly on wood, then normal painting poly over everything.
3. What is the best type of paint? I was planning on using Automotive in my booth, but is there anything else that works considerably better?
Perhaps a Piano Black Tutorial would be best, is there one online?
Relax:
Regarding the paint, I used Benjamin Moore Impervo oil-based satin black. I used 6 coats and sanded and filled holes, and sanded.... I also used a product called Penetrol. It thins out the paint a bit and makes for a very smooth application. No streaks. I would highly recommend the combination. The paint came out great.
However, the quality of the finish will largely depend on the shape the wood is in when you start painting as much as the paint job. While my painting scores a 9 out of 10, my wood prep was on aobut 5 out of 10. The nature of the cabinets I built meant that in some areas I didn't have completely flat surfaces. So, I see lots of flaws, but they are minimal and most likely won't be noticed that much by those not looking as closely as I am.
Regarding the paint, I used Benjamin Moore Impervo oil-based satin black. I used 6 coats and sanded and filled holes, and sanded.... I also used a product called Penetrol. It thins out the paint a bit and makes for a very smooth application. No streaks. I would highly recommend the combination. The paint came out great.
However, the quality of the finish will largely depend on the shape the wood is in when you start painting as much as the paint job. While my painting scores a 9 out of 10, my wood prep was on aobut 5 out of 10. The nature of the cabinets I built meant that in some areas I didn't have completely flat surfaces. So, I see lots of flaws, but they are minimal and most likely won't be noticed that much by those not looking as closely as I am.
There is a piano gloss on MDF tutorial out there, but I cannot find it at the moment. The quick and dirty version:
As Lizardbrain suggests, the biggest part of the job is the
prep work. The smoother and flatter the surface before paint, the better your results will be. What makes a piano gloss finish is perfectly flat smooth surfaces polished to a high gloss.
paint, and let it fully harden (several weeks for lacquer)
Wet sand the topcoat through the grits from 320 to at least 1200. Depending on the polish you use, you may need to go as high as 2000 grit.
clean thoroughly between grits this is extremely important. A bit of 320 grit will make huge scratches in a 600 grit surface.
take your time sanding the goal of the 320 grit sanding is to get an almost uniform surface - some small low spots are OK. with 400 grit you should eliminate the low spots and get a uniformly dull surface. With each successive grit you work for a uniform surface, which will be a bit smoother than the last. Take as much time sanding as you did the previous grit.
Rubbing compound Once you are up to 1200 grit (or whatever your rubbing compound says it can handle) you can start with rubbing compound. You'll finally get to see gloss again. It will be a lot deeper than what you sanded off initially. Unless you have a soft finish like lacquer, use a power polisher (rent it if you have to, and no those 7-10" automotive waxer-polishers are not up to the task, you want one that looks like an angle grinder only slower) Take your time rubbing, clean all the compound off when you have a uniform shine
Polish Once you've cleaned off the rubbing compound, it is time to really bring out the shine. A fine polishing compound, like Meguiars or Manzerna will bring out the best of your finish. Power polish unless you really need a workout.
Wax A wax with a lot of carnauba wax will make a great shine, but needs a power buffer to really bring it up.
Enjoy. A lot of work, but worth it.
Relax - You might try
Pianolac if you have access to spray equipment. It is a water based system with a black or clear base coat and a clear topcoat that polishes up to an amazing gloss. I'm just a happy customer. Pianolac pore filler is the only thing I've found that sufficiently seals MDF in a single application. Mask off your maple, shoot the rest black and then hit it with the topcoat. Pianolac has an extremely high solids content and builds quickly. It is very hard - don't bother thinking about hand polishing, but once properly buffed out, it makes mirrors look bad.
As Lizardbrain suggests, the biggest part of the job is the
prep work. The smoother and flatter the surface before paint, the better your results will be. What makes a piano gloss finish is perfectly flat smooth surfaces polished to a high gloss.
paint, and let it fully harden (several weeks for lacquer)
Wet sand the topcoat through the grits from 320 to at least 1200. Depending on the polish you use, you may need to go as high as 2000 grit.
clean thoroughly between grits this is extremely important. A bit of 320 grit will make huge scratches in a 600 grit surface.
take your time sanding the goal of the 320 grit sanding is to get an almost uniform surface - some small low spots are OK. with 400 grit you should eliminate the low spots and get a uniformly dull surface. With each successive grit you work for a uniform surface, which will be a bit smoother than the last. Take as much time sanding as you did the previous grit.
Rubbing compound Once you are up to 1200 grit (or whatever your rubbing compound says it can handle) you can start with rubbing compound. You'll finally get to see gloss again. It will be a lot deeper than what you sanded off initially. Unless you have a soft finish like lacquer, use a power polisher (rent it if you have to, and no those 7-10" automotive waxer-polishers are not up to the task, you want one that looks like an angle grinder only slower) Take your time rubbing, clean all the compound off when you have a uniform shine
Polish Once you've cleaned off the rubbing compound, it is time to really bring out the shine. A fine polishing compound, like Meguiars or Manzerna will bring out the best of your finish. Power polish unless you really need a workout.
Wax A wax with a lot of carnauba wax will make a great shine, but needs a power buffer to really bring it up.
Enjoy. A lot of work, but worth it.
Relax - You might try
Pianolac if you have access to spray equipment. It is a water based system with a black or clear base coat and a clear topcoat that polishes up to an amazing gloss. I'm just a happy customer. Pianolac pore filler is the only thing I've found that sufficiently seals MDF in a single application. Mask off your maple, shoot the rest black and then hit it with the topcoat. Pianolac has an extremely high solids content and builds quickly. It is very hard - don't bother thinking about hand polishing, but once properly buffed out, it makes mirrors look bad.
Shiny black the hardest color to hide imperfections. I use automotive paints, dry fast and cover well. With these you can use a cheap automotive primer, not spray can, no need for urethanes. The key is to build the primer up well enough to sand smooth with a 400 grit. Use some black spray paint out of a can and lightly spray over the gray primer. Then with a flat block wrapped with sand paper lightly sand over the primer, you will see the raised and lowered areas. When all is flat and level, paint away.
BobEllis said:
That's good advice Bob and pretty much says it all in short concise form.
The only thing that I'd add is to be very weary of sanding too much and pushing through the laquer and back into the basecoat - it looks a mess and will cost you some more work. So be absolutely sure to apply plenty of coats and this doesn't happen.
Getting the surface completely flat is something that is very very tough. Even smallest level imperfections show quite clearly. I tend to use rather large amounts of primer, sanding between coats. I think its here where the imperfections are introduced the most. A better solution would be to use minimal primer but then, with MDF, you have the usual problems that can bring.
I'm doing a high gloss black on my lastest designs and you can clearly see the slight level imperfections I'm talking in these images:
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It still looks good in the flesh but a truly flat would definitely be something else. Maybe with more experience I'll get that in the future but for now I'm getting nice results anyhow.
I should have pointed out that you ABSOLUTELY MUST USE A SANDING BLOCK. The larger the surface the longer the block (less chance of making concave surfaces)
Nice work, Shin. We always seem to see the slightest imperfection in our own work, but others don't.
Nice work, Shin. We always seem to see the slightest imperfection in our own work, but others don't.
Thanks alot guys. That is much more help then the few websites I have visited.
That Pianolac stuff looks cool though, I am trying to figure out what stuff I would need to buy and how much. The cabinet I am building is 52 x 14 x 9 roughly. How much and what do I need ya think> Or should I just email the company?
That Pianolac stuff looks cool though, I am trying to figure out what stuff I would need to buy and how much. The cabinet I am building is 52 x 14 x 9 roughly. How much and what do I need ya think> Or should I just email the company?
I bought a quart each of black cream pore filler, black base coat, clear top coat and rub cut oil (you need the oil for wet sanding.) I used a lot of extra base coat getting my gun dialed in - it was the first time I sprayed anything. I sanded through the base coat a few times, so had to re shoot. My cabinets are 17" x 14" X 10" and I used around 10 oz of base coat and 8 oz of clear for 8 (probably 4 net) and 12 coats respectively. If you are good with your gun, you can probably use a quart of each. You might want two quarts of base coat just to be safe.
Arthur is very helpful and patient with spray painting newbies. His sandpaper prices are the best I have found.
Arthur is very helpful and patient with spray painting newbies. His sandpaper prices are the best I have found.
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