New member, so sorry for any mistakes, IE: wrong place for topic and or lack of knowledge.🙂
I am in a band, we have played for years now and have only ever miked up the electric drums and the vocals on our Mixer.
We played to a bigger group and so decided to mic everyone, 2 Guitars, 1 Bass, Vocals and Electric drums.
Anyway, the system keeps cutting out/Turning off, I know this is something the mixer has, to stop it from blowing, Here are some pics of my mixer and the speakers.
Do i need a bigger watt mixer or bigger watt speakers to get it going without cutting out?
Thanks in advance.
Back of Mixer.
Back of Speaker
I have 4 speakers, I run from back of mixer to first speaker, and go from speaker 1s "Trough" to the next speaker.
Any help would be great, I play in a band, I am not a pro pa sound guy, so please, keep it simple, lol
I am in a band, we have played for years now and have only ever miked up the electric drums and the vocals on our Mixer.
We played to a bigger group and so decided to mic everyone, 2 Guitars, 1 Bass, Vocals and Electric drums.
Anyway, the system keeps cutting out/Turning off, I know this is something the mixer has, to stop it from blowing, Here are some pics of my mixer and the speakers.
Do i need a bigger watt mixer or bigger watt speakers to get it going without cutting out?
Thanks in advance.
Back of Mixer.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Back of Speaker
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have 4 speakers, I run from back of mixer to first speaker, and go from speaker 1s "Trough" to the next speaker.
Any help would be great, I play in a band, I am not a pro pa sound guy, so please, keep it simple, lol
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
If you look at picture 2, that is the back of the speaker, It says 8,
Is that what you are meaning?
And thanks for reply.
Hi,
Everything appears well matched. It shouldn't really cutout running
the mixer amplifier at max volume with a modicum of clipping.
However if its always fine for the first purpose and can't handle
the second, I'll state the obvious, no system well suited for
the first purpose can handle the second.
If you need 4 cabs and that mixer to keep up with the stage
bass and guitar amplifiers, it has got no hope as a full PA,
that will go significantly louder than the first set up.
The issues rapidly get very complicated for full PA's,
reigning back the backline and providing monitoring.
A full PA for larger spaces needs more of everything.
rgds, sreten.
Everything appears well matched. It shouldn't really cutout running
the mixer amplifier at max volume with a modicum of clipping.
However if its always fine for the first purpose and can't handle
the second, I'll state the obvious, no system well suited for
the first purpose can handle the second.
If you need 4 cabs and that mixer to keep up with the stage
bass and guitar amplifiers, it has got no hope as a full PA,
that will go significantly louder than the first set up.
The issues rapidly get very complicated for full PA's,
reigning back the backline and providing monitoring.
A full PA for larger spaces needs more of everything.
rgds, sreten.
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If you wanna put everything through, the whole PA needs to go bigger.
Those cabs are probably rated for 250w continuous (half of "program power"), so 500w a pair. As sreten said, everything's pretty well matched: upgrading the speakers or the amp won't get very far: a more powerful amp will likely blow your speakers if run hard, and different speakers are unlikely to have a much higher sensitivity than what you have.
Soooo.
What's your budget?
If it were mine, I'd try to find some QSC K12s or whatever the 15" version is. Maybe go for the EV equivalents if you like. They'll go louder and cleaner than what you have, and take up less space than pairs of cabinets for each side.
After that, you'd be able to get a mixer without amplifier if you like, or use the built-in amplifiers to drive some monitor wedges.
Chris
Those cabs are probably rated for 250w continuous (half of "program power"), so 500w a pair. As sreten said, everything's pretty well matched: upgrading the speakers or the amp won't get very far: a more powerful amp will likely blow your speakers if run hard, and different speakers are unlikely to have a much higher sensitivity than what you have.
Soooo.
What's your budget?
If it were mine, I'd try to find some QSC K12s or whatever the 15" version is. Maybe go for the EV equivalents if you like. They'll go louder and cleaner than what you have, and take up less space than pairs of cabinets for each side.
After that, you'd be able to get a mixer without amplifier if you like, or use the built-in amplifiers to drive some monitor wedges.
Chris
As sreten is asking, do you think maybe you are just trying to get too much out of the powered mixer and it's shutting off for that reason? It is good and warm when it shuts off?
EDIT: Posted same time as Chris.
EDIT: Posted same time as Chris.
The powered mixer should not cut out unless something is wrong with your speakers or cables or the mixer. What are you using for speaker cables? Hopefully you are not using 1/4" instrument cables because those are not rated to carry high current, and hopefully you're not using 1/4" speaker cables either as it's too easy to short the amp outputs with them, hopefully you are using speakon cables.
Did this problem just appear? If so what changed? Have you always been connecting 4 speakers? What brand and model is the mixer?
Did this problem just appear? If so what changed? Have you always been connecting 4 speakers? What brand and model is the mixer?
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To double check, you're running 2 cables out from your mixer to your various speakers, right?
Are all your speakers identical?
If you chain all of your speakers off one channel, that one channel would be working very hard and might overheat, causing the symptoms you describe.
Are all your speakers identical?
If you chain all of your speakers off one channel, that one channel would be working very hard and might overheat, causing the symptoms you describe.
First of all, Thank yous all very much for replying, 🙂
I am using cords like these in this pic.
This is a pic of my mixer. I have all the buttons at ZERO when we play, Is that right? I use the "GAIN" buttons to turn us up.
I run speakers from PORT A to speaker 1, and run from speaker 1 to speaker 2 using the "Thru" PORT from back of speaker 1. I do the same with PORT B. Should i not be doing this?
And finally, This is us set up.
The thing we are wanting is to be able to here GUITAR LEFT, coming through the right side and GUITAR RIGHT coming through the left side. To try even the sound out.
Much thanks. Sorry if it is confusing. It is for me as well.
I am using cords like these in this pic.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This is a pic of my mixer. I have all the buttons at ZERO when we play, Is that right? I use the "GAIN" buttons to turn us up.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I run speakers from PORT A to speaker 1, and run from speaker 1 to speaker 2 using the "Thru" PORT from back of speaker 1. I do the same with PORT B. Should i not be doing this?
And finally, This is us set up.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The thing we are wanting is to be able to here GUITAR LEFT, coming through the right side and GUITAR RIGHT coming through the left side. To try even the sound out.
Much thanks. Sorry if it is confusing. It is for me as well.
Mixing on the gains.. sigh.🙄
I see several things here that I will comment on.
1) The channel faders should end up being pretty close to straight across at about unity(0) but they should not look like they were set with a ruler, this is where you mix the band.. that is why they provide you with faders and not on/off switches.
2) The channel gains should be set to produce a signal level of about 0db on main meters when you solo(pfl) that channel, then this control should be left alone unless the input signal level changes drastically. If the input signal level changes dramatically all the time then fix whatever is causing that (mismatched guitar patches, a singer with no level control, etc), this will make your mixing job much easier
3) The main EQ. That hugh lowend boost you have dialed in there is gobbling up all your amplifier headroom, set this back to zero and if you find you need more lowend then trade one set of 15 mains for a good powered subwoofer.
4) Mains speaker setup on the backline behind everybody. This has got to be impacting the volume you can obtain before feedback, you will get much better results with these speakers on stands in front of the mics.
5) With all that done then the master fader is what you use to control the sound level of the PA, but it's position is irrelevent the only thing that matters is the main meter level and that should never ever go much above 0db.
Looks like you have the speakers connected correctly so this should work if you can adopt the suggestions above and not overdrive the mixer.
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+1 to all of the above - beat me to it.
Oh, and turn your backline down/get a smaller backline. There's no need for 4x12 cabs for anything other than looks. A decent 1x12" will keep up with even loud drummers if needed.
Edit #2 - make use of the pan controls. If you keep them all central, everything comes out the PA at the same volume at each side. Want a guitar louder at one side?
Pan it over to that side!
Oh, and turn your backline down/get a smaller backline. There's no need for 4x12 cabs for anything other than looks. A decent 1x12" will keep up with even loud drummers if needed.
Edit #2 - make use of the pan controls. If you keep them all central, everything comes out the PA at the same volume at each side. Want a guitar louder at one side?
Pan it over to that side!
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Stop sending Bass Guitar and Kick Drum to the speakers, it is wasted energy going nowhere as the speakers will not reproduce it properly. That will remove some of the excess load on the amp. Make sure the amp fans work and it is clean inside.
does it respond to physical shock as in if you tap on the mixer it will either cut out or come back to life?
1+ to everything. I don't like this situation at all, some reading needs to be done. And you need some subs.
You set gain and leave it. That's why it's a small knob, you mix with the big faders
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You set gain and leave it. That's why it's a small knob, you mix with the big faders
Some very good points made here already. I would like like point out that the amp is only capable of putting out 400 + 400 watts at 4 ohms. That means that each speaker cabinet is only getting 200 watts. This is a far cry from the 500 watts that each cab can handle for program. I personally like to match my amp power rating to the peak capacity of the speakers so that I have plenty of nice clean power left if I ever have to squeak out that last little bit from the speakers. My point, though, is that having an amp with plenty of headroom is much better than one that you're driving well into clipping. Clipping an amp produced dc current that no speaker can handle for very long. DC current does not make sound, only heat, thus making it easier to destroy speakers by under powering then than by providing plenty of headroom from a larger amp.
Look for an amp like a crown k2 or macro tech 2400. You can always go bigger and just not turn up as much. But these amps will be able to provide good clean power and have an excellent damping factor. Either one will wake your speakers up and not have to go into protect mode, provided they are being feed with clean signal. Just my 2 cents
Look for an amp like a crown k2 or macro tech 2400. You can always go bigger and just not turn up as much. But these amps will be able to provide good clean power and have an excellent damping factor. Either one will wake your speakers up and not have to go into protect mode, provided they are being feed with clean signal. Just my 2 cents
No unfortunately this is another all too common misconception, an amplifier will not produce DC at the speaker outputs unless there is something wrong with it, and no a square wave is still not considered to have a DC component in any way. Over driving an amp just produces higher output power that is badly distorted and this can lead to blown speakers but if that happens they were overpowered in some way.
Conanski, you're blowing my mind here. You're telling me that the straight horizontal lines that appear on an o scope, at the top and bottom of a clipped waveform, have no DC component to them? Can you please educate me as to how this can be?
A DC signal has no oscillations it's a flat line at some bias above or below 0v, so the fact a square wave oscillates between a positive "flat line: and a negative "flat line" makes it an alternating signal(AC) just like any other noise signal. As an experiment you can drive a speaker with DC just connect a 3v or 9v battery to the terminals and you will see the driver move out and stop at some position relative to the voltage being applied, also note that the driver makes no sound. Do the same with a square wave and you won't see that, the driver will move back and forth and make a sound corresponding to the frequency of the square wave, you can download samples of different wave shapes or a tone generator and pipe this into your sound system and see(hear) for yourself.
A clipped amplifier will not produce a nice clean square wave like this either there will be varying harmonic and amplitude content that will distort the shape so an argument based on a nice perfectly shaped square wave really doesn't apply.
A clipped amplifier will not produce a nice clean square wave like this either there will be varying harmonic and amplitude content that will distort the shape so an argument based on a nice perfectly shaped square wave really doesn't apply.
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Hi there,
You would be surprised in what just adding a decent sub system can do for a small PA such as yours.
One time all I had all I had was a pair of SP-1"s house monitors to use and I added our 4 Cerwin Vegs 18" subs ( and amps of course) to it and it brought the house down!!
Cheers!!
jer 🙂
You would be surprised in what just adding a decent sub system can do for a small PA such as yours.
One time all I had all I had was a pair of SP-1"s house monitors to use and I added our 4 Cerwin Vegs 18" subs ( and amps of course) to it and it brought the house down!!
Cheers!!
jer 🙂
If the amplifier is 8 and the speakers are less then you will overload the amplifier at higher listening levels and that could cause it to cut out.
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