There ARE specifications for both of the Jaycar woofer-midrange and tweeter on the pages that sreten provided links to. Not a lot, but enough.
IMO it is very likely that the Jaycar CW2190 is exactly identical to the HiVi B4N except that it has a paper rather than metal cone.
Vented systems (the Overnight Sensations) are somewhat sensitive to being incorrectly put together, but probably you could build a pair of Overnight Sensations according to Paul C.'s plans substituting the Jaycar CW2190 and CT2005 for the woofer & tweeter he used (B4N and ND20) and have a successful build.
-Pete
IMO it is very likely that the Jaycar CW2190 is exactly identical to the HiVi B4N except that it has a paper rather than metal cone.
Vented systems (the Overnight Sensations) are somewhat sensitive to being incorrectly put together, but probably you could build a pair of Overnight Sensations according to Paul C.'s plans substituting the Jaycar CW2190 and CT2005 for the woofer & tweeter he used (B4N and ND20) and have a successful build.
-Pete
This sounds like the most economical option at least. Assuming this would still work with the original crossover design, what are the tolerances for inductor values? I'm having trouble finding both 0.35mH and 1.1mH. 0.33 seems like it might be close enough? but 1.0 is a bigger variance.
0.33 mH is close enough to 0.35 mH, I would think. To make 1.1 mH, you could wire a 1.0 mH coil in series with a 0.1 mH coil. Another way to get 1.1 mH would be to remove wire from a 1.5 mH coil, but that would involve measuring the inductance of the modified coil which I assume you wouldn't want to get involved doing now.
Where are you getting your information about the Overnight Sensations? Can you post a link to your source?
It would be good if you could email Jaycar and ask them to give you Vas for the CW2190 as that is a crucial misssing spec for it.
Here is a question for the more experienced speaker builders-
Plugging Qes, Fs, and Sensitivity into the Driver Editor of WinISD, WinISD gives me a calculated value of Vas for the CW2190 equal to 7.8 Liters.
I did the same thing for the HiVi B4N and get a calculated value of Vas equal to 7.1 Liters.
The spec sheet that I have from Swanspeaker gives Vas of the B4N equal to 4.5 Liters.
So how do you explain the discrepancy between Vas in the spec sheets and Vas calculated with WinISD for the B4N?
Regards,
Pete
Sure, I've just been going on what's here: https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy-overnightsensations
I emailed Jaycar for additional specs, I'll let you know what their reply is.
Edit: That was fast, they sent me the spec sheets they had.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4059337/CW2190 frequency.PNG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4059337/CW2190(WB-116PII) parameter.PNG
And one for the tweeter:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4059337/sql vs freq (CT2005).pdf
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Hi,
FWIW the elliptical low pass filter for the B4N is very unlikely to match
a paper version of the driver which is unlikely to have a similar peak
to the metal cone peak that the elliptical arrangement addresses.
If anything simply omit C3, its more likely to work.
rgds, sreten.
FWIW the elliptical low pass filter for the B4N is very unlikely to match
a paper version of the driver which is unlikely to have a similar peak
to the metal cone peak that the elliptical arrangement addresses.
If anything simply omit C3, its more likely to work.
rgds, sreten.
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Substituting the Jaycar CT-2005 for the Dayton ND20FA tweeter isn't much of a problem. The major difference between the two is lower impedance of the Jaycar tweeter. So the values of the high-pass filter of the crossover network probably need to be slightly modified to accommodate that.
However the fact that the specs of the HiVi B4N don't jive (specifically Qes, Vas, Fs, and sensitivity) make it difficult to know how the vented system with the midwoofer should be changed to work with the Jaycar woofer.
Nobody is going to comment on the apparently incorrect specs for the B4N?!!
Regards,
Pete
However the fact that the specs of the HiVi B4N don't jive (specifically Qes, Vas, Fs, and sensitivity) make it difficult to know how the vented system with the midwoofer should be changed to work with the Jaycar woofer.
Nobody is going to comment on the apparently incorrect specs for the B4N?!!
Regards,
Pete
From the spec sheet for the Jaycar CW2190, Vas = 5.233mM. I take that to mean Vas = .005233 cubic meters or 0.185 cubic feet.
Assuming that 0.16 cubic feet is correct for the HiVi B4N, then Vas of the Jaycar CW2190 is 16% larger.
Simulating the CW2190 given the OS alignment, there is less of a freq. response hump, but f3 is 61 Hz.
Maybe tomorrow I'll try to see what kind of configuration would give a lower f3 for the Jaycar CW2190.
Assuming that 0.16 cubic feet is correct for the HiVi B4N, then Vas of the Jaycar CW2190 is 16% larger.
Simulating the CW2190 given the OS alignment, there is less of a freq. response hump, but f3 is 61 Hz.
Maybe tomorrow I'll try to see what kind of configuration would give a lower f3 for the Jaycar CW2190.
Hey guys. I don't come around here often, but I couldn't help but eavesdrop on this thread.
There may be a straight-ahead solution to all this. That is, the whole kit will certainly fit in a USPS medium flat rate box. Which is around $45-50 (US) to ship to anywhere in the world. I don't know if Parts Express or Meniscus would be willing to do this for you, but if not, I could even do it. We'd just have to have the kit shipped to my house first (which should be cheap or free).
Would you be interested in this?
-Paul
There may be a straight-ahead solution to all this. That is, the whole kit will certainly fit in a USPS medium flat rate box. Which is around $45-50 (US) to ship to anywhere in the world. I don't know if Parts Express or Meniscus would be willing to do this for you, but if not, I could even do it. We'd just have to have the kit shipped to my house first (which should be cheap or free).
Would you be interested in this?
-Paul
Sorry to (also) butt in but...
the distributor for Jaycar is electus.
Electus Distribution
You can search this site with the Jaycar catalogue numbers (e.g. CW2190) and it will give you the same product WITH the PDF files for the specs.
The PDF's give you ALMOST everything you need except inductance, however on some (The 5 inch paper cone driver for example..)you do get Kxm and Exm - from which you can calculate inductance (google it..)
I have been considering the range of 4 - 6,5 inch Jaycar drivers for a while now and I have modeled just about all of them in an attempt to come up with something that can be sourced locally. Even with the high $AU, shipping from the US kills most of the value of the excellent designs from sites like PE (ONS, Nano-Neo, Tritrix, Aviatrix etc...)
Still a work in progress - need a better Tweeter available locally (and not the Vifa D25AG that Jaycar is trying to flog off for $70!)
G
the distributor for Jaycar is electus.
Electus Distribution
You can search this site with the Jaycar catalogue numbers (e.g. CW2190) and it will give you the same product WITH the PDF files for the specs.
The PDF's give you ALMOST everything you need except inductance, however on some (The 5 inch paper cone driver for example..)you do get Kxm and Exm - from which you can calculate inductance (google it..)
I have been considering the range of 4 - 6,5 inch Jaycar drivers for a while now and I have modeled just about all of them in an attempt to come up with something that can be sourced locally. Even with the high $AU, shipping from the US kills most of the value of the excellent designs from sites like PE (ONS, Nano-Neo, Tritrix, Aviatrix etc...)
Still a work in progress - need a better Tweeter available locally (and not the Vifa D25AG that Jaycar is trying to flog off for $70!)
G
A quick look at the CW2190 - A pair to a box (MTM style?)
View attachment 275305
15 litres (internal) ported give an F3 of 52Hz. I have guestimated XMAX at 3mm so you run out of excursion at around 30 watts but this should still give you about 99dB at 50Hz.
Closest CtoC would be around 130mm which would limit the XO to about 2600Hz
Anyway, just thinking out loud...
G
View attachment 275305
15 litres (internal) ported give an F3 of 52Hz. I have guestimated XMAX at 3mm so you run out of excursion at around 30 watts but this should still give you about 99dB at 50Hz.
Closest CtoC would be around 130mm which would limit the XO to about 2600Hz
Anyway, just thinking out loud...
G
Hi Dave,
Do you think they would do ok at a 2500( FS is 1500..) XO point (3rd order electrical / LR4 acoustic slope) given that we are looking at about 30W before we bottom out the woofers anyway?
sorry spaid, i know i have rudely hijacked your thread. Perhaps we can come up with the 'Down Under Sensations'. I will go back to my corner now...
I appreciate the generous offer Paul, should it come to that, but for the moment I'm in no real hurry and am enjoying looking into all the possible solutions being suggested.
Heh, no problem. Keep it up!
Hi,
The inductance is easy to approximate from the impedance graph.
e.g. for the 4" Re = 6R. x root 2 = 8.5Z. Impedance is 8.5Z
at 5KHz, so the inductor = 6Z at 5KHz, Le = 0.19mH.
rgds, sreten.
Looking again Le is stated on the spec sheet as 185.47uH ......
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Wow,
that's easier!
My old long method if you have Kxm and Exm:
Levc = Kxm*alpha^(Exm-1)
Calaculate Alpha at the frequency we want - For Levc we want 1000Hz so alpha = 2 * 3.14 * 1000 = 6280
For the CW2192 5 inch Kxm = 38.912mH and Exm = 0.508Ohms so:
38.912 * 6280 ^ (0.508 - 1) = 0.526 mH
Think i like yours better as all you need is an impedance plot... not many manufacturers give the above specs...
G
Here is a possible system for the Jaycar CW2190.
Interior box volume = 7.0 liters
Box tuning frequency = 0.85 times free air resonance (Fs) of CW2190 = 51 Hz
Vent is 3.5 cm inside diameter by 13 cm long
The above gives you a bass cut-off frequency (F3) of 49 Hz, according to the simulation that I did with the software program WinISD. I suppose because Fs of the Jaycar woofer is a bit higher than that of the B4N, the interior box volume for the Jaycar needs to be about 1.5 times that of the Overnight Sensations if the bass cut-off frequency is to be the same.
Regards, Pete
Interior box volume = 7.0 liters
Box tuning frequency = 0.85 times free air resonance (Fs) of CW2190 = 51 Hz
Vent is 3.5 cm inside diameter by 13 cm long
The above gives you a bass cut-off frequency (F3) of 49 Hz, according to the simulation that I did with the software program WinISD. I suppose because Fs of the Jaycar woofer is a bit higher than that of the B4N, the interior box volume for the Jaycar needs to be about 1.5 times that of the Overnight Sensations if the bass cut-off frequency is to be the same.
Regards, Pete
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I just assembled a pair of 2-ways using the HiVi T20 tweeter and Peerless 830656 5.25" mid. I had some spare crossover components and used all of them in a design using Jeff Bagby's spreadsheet. I applied some baffle step. The resulting response is:
http://photos.swinbank.fastmail.net/moser/PeerlessHiViT20_response.jpg
3rd order parallel on tweeter with L-pad: 3.3uF, 0.25Mh, 10uF, 2.5ohm (series) and 14ohm (parallel)
2nd order parallel on woofer: 1.0Mh, 4.7uF.
The box has a 180mm wide baffle rounded over at the sides, and a 1.5" port on the rear tuned to about 60Hz. These things sound great, I love Peerless woofers. The tweeter is a bit bright but I'll change the resistor values on the L-pad at some point after I break the drivers in. Here is a picture of them, the box is in primer, will paint later:
http://photos.swinbank.fastmail.net/moser/PeerlessHiViT20_1.jpg
If anyone has worked with these drivers and has a better crossover design I'd like to know about it!
http://photos.swinbank.fastmail.net/moser/PeerlessHiViT20_response.jpg
3rd order parallel on tweeter with L-pad: 3.3uF, 0.25Mh, 10uF, 2.5ohm (series) and 14ohm (parallel)
2nd order parallel on woofer: 1.0Mh, 4.7uF.
The box has a 180mm wide baffle rounded over at the sides, and a 1.5" port on the rear tuned to about 60Hz. These things sound great, I love Peerless woofers. The tweeter is a bit bright but I'll change the resistor values on the L-pad at some point after I break the drivers in. Here is a picture of them, the box is in primer, will paint later:
http://photos.swinbank.fastmail.net/moser/PeerlessHiViT20_1.jpg
If anyone has worked with these drivers and has a better crossover design I'd like to know about it!
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