OK! ...I'm convinced!
So here's the deal, you build a DAC and send it to me on trial; if it's "better" than the Cary - I will buy it, if not ...I'll return it to you - no harm done, OK? ...do we have a deal?
Sure, why not?
Providing it is large enough (Not hard in an elco) it will be fairly well behaved, having a few volts of DC across it helps, but most of the studio kit out there does not think twice about electolytics for coupling when they are the right part, the art is to keep the ac voltage across them down to maybe 10mV or so at the lowest frequency you care about (You should probably be doing this anyway for reasons of low frequency phase shift).
You would **not** want them in a filter (Where they have significant signal voltage across them) but as a boring coupler they do just fine. Obviously more applicable to output caps where you are unsure what the load impedance will be, for high Z input stages C0G ceramic is pretty much blameless and is available in usefully high values there days (Also a good choice in filters).
I am aware that this is not the politically correct view around here, just like my choice of 5532s as an opamp that is usually not the weakest link (Providing you watch slew rates in things like reconstruction filters) is not perhaps the general wisdom.
In the same vane, ultra low ESR is not always your friend, sometimes a cap with an ohm of ESR is selected with careful thought because the damping is a good thing, do not swap such things without **UNDERSTANDING** what you are looking at.
Providing it is large enough (Not hard in an elco) it will be fairly well behaved, having a few volts of DC across it helps, but most of the studio kit out there does not think twice about electolytics for coupling when they are the right part, the art is to keep the ac voltage across them down to maybe 10mV or so at the lowest frequency you care about (You should probably be doing this anyway for reasons of low frequency phase shift).
You would **not** want them in a filter (Where they have significant signal voltage across them) but as a boring coupler they do just fine. Obviously more applicable to output caps where you are unsure what the load impedance will be, for high Z input stages C0G ceramic is pretty much blameless and is available in usefully high values there days (Also a good choice in filters).
I am aware that this is not the politically correct view around here, just like my choice of 5532s as an opamp that is usually not the weakest link (Providing you watch slew rates in things like reconstruction filters) is not perhaps the general wisdom.
In the same vane, ultra low ESR is not always your friend, sometimes a cap with an ohm of ESR is selected with careful thought because the damping is a good thing, do not swap such things without **UNDERSTANDING** what you are looking at.
I must have given you the impression that i actually build stuff for anyone but myself...I do not and even if i did it would cost a lot more than cheap burgers at McCarys 😛
The BG NX are better sounding than practically any non-boutique film cap. Of course IMO and to my ears. They have the advantage of fitting in tight spaces and not destroying resale value. I also think they are commensurate with the quality of the unit whereas a pair of Duelund of any desription is not.
If it sound better to you, than it is better. I can understand why its better because you used a better coupling cap and that dominates over what ever EMI/RFI is picked up, IMO. You are the one listening to the equipment as music/sound taste are really subject. For example, I have Blackgate NX 10uf but I don't use it as I don't like the sound it gave compare to a decent film cap. I will only use a Blackgate if I don't have space, again, this is just my taste.
So enjoy you new coupling cap (Unfortunately, Cary is right in that good quality cap is almost always bigger)
sorry to hear you don't build for anyone but yourself, have you built a DAC for yourself? Perhaps I could try it out to compare to the Cary?
why cost a lot more? Surely you are using very reasonably priced parts i.e. black gate etc. not boutique!
BG NX ...it needs to be over 25 volts, and the Uf 3,7 - 5,0; do they make that in NX? ...send me the link?
I agree with this viewpoint, I think I would also follow this course.
ordered some JB-JSX 4,7Uf - 250v polypropylene; ±5%; Ø18.5x26mm; -55÷85°C; ...from T.M.E. http://www.tme.eu/gb/details/jsx-4.7.../jsx-47u250-5/
Also sold by hi fi collective and reviewed by Humble Homemade Hifi - Cap Test ...it gets a decent 7+ grading (even though those grades don't mean a lot really). Can't find any independant reviews of the Monacors, only re-sellers 'floss'!
Don't know how you jumped to this conclusion. The parts should fit the scope of the project and the reason i still keep some non polar BGs is the remote possibility to upgrade some factory box.
The 4.7 and 10uF in 50v in my box are all N and not NX. There were definitely 25v and 50v versions of the NX but maybe not all values were covered.
My recommendation for using the N in place of the chinese films still stands.
Btw, what were the factory caps in this position?
This down to earth conclusion is a bit perplexing but certainly sensible.
Still, i wonder why you expect a £3 cap to be better than what is currently inside.
Still, i wonder why you expect a £3 cap to be better than what is currently inside.
Actually the red "Audiophiler" brand found on aliexpress are the best bang for the buck, but most will turn their nose up as not being Audiophile enough 🙄
So what components do you use then?
NX did not cover all values and the 'N' I can only find one advert and they want around £35 per cap! (4,7 Uf 50v)
Factory caps - Ummm? Well, best guess is either WIMA or panasonic.
You of all people should know that price is not the dominant factor: "The parts should fit the scope of the project".
I wasn't looking to make it 'better', just different. I asked Cary to confirm their statement that a larger Uf would introduce a subtle change to the bass/middle response and they said they stick by their earlier comment, even though I wouldn't be buying the output caps from them! (i.e. no vested interest).
IMO the JB's have a better reputation than Monacor. The JB's have independently been compared to, mundorf, audio note, V-Cap, Jensen, Jantzen, Aura T, Clarity cap and been found to achieve similar results at a much fairer price point.
Trying my best to avoid coupling caps as much as possible.
All tube projects use amorhous or permalloy transformers but strangely in the dac i seemed to prefer caps and ended up using Clarity MR. It has been bugging me for a while as there is no good excuse not to dc couple in a dac. My old excuse was minimalism but the next dac will definitely be dc coupled.
Reading cap reviews and opinions on the net has not done me much good.
Especially if the reviewed caps are used in crossovers and i intend using them as couplers. Even more so if the reviewer specifically targets tweeter crossovers but my application is full range.
True, but the harmonics of the DC are not exactly a problem....
In band filter caps I can see C0G or film (C0G is less critical on reflow profile if suitable values are available), but for coupling, I find a suitably large value to be more important as limiting the signal voltage developed across the thing trumps lower intrinsic distortion (Which is a function of signal voltage).
A DAC should really be able to be designed DC coupled with acceptably small offset at the output you would think.
Where the things become a problem is in speaker crossovers where high values and large signal voltages are needed in filters, but that is a fundamentally different application (And a good reason to add an extra power amp channel so the crossover can be done in the small signal domain at much more reasonable impedance).
What I have never really understood is why this cap fetish is so much of a thing on the replay side, but hardly even gets a thought among those designing studio electronics, the big desk manufacturers are all about 5532s as opamps and elcos as coupling, nobody bats an eyelid (There are a few companies specialising in adding 'secret sauce' of various tweaky sorts, but they get very short shift once you get away from the home studios).
Regards, Dan.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.