that link you posted is for the 'G4' series amplifiers, the:
"Digital Reference' 275hcca
and
275 sx
are two completely different amps...as far as the digital reference series goes...the 'G4' took on a completely new design.
i repair all kinds of subs, sub designs are basicly all the same, except for differential drive motors, but even still, it is the same concept.
whenever i come across an odd size voice coil such as 3.5" if i cannot find the replacement coil, i wind them myself.
youd be surprised how similiar in performance a $500 sub is to a $50 sub...main differences are in marketing and soft parts.
as long as the magnet is strong enough and the coil is of optimum size as well as good metal composition of the top plate.
the soft parts can be replaced and mass added for the sub to peform at desired resonance....i say resonate because air resonates...
manufacturers are going backwards these days, they add multi level spiders lowering the efficiency...why use 2000 watts to put out the same spl as an efficient 500watt sub?
"Digital Reference' 275hcca
and
275 sx
are two completely different amps...as far as the digital reference series goes...the 'G4' took on a completely new design.
i repair all kinds of subs, sub designs are basicly all the same, except for differential drive motors, but even still, it is the same concept.
whenever i come across an odd size voice coil such as 3.5" if i cannot find the replacement coil, i wind them myself.
youd be surprised how similiar in performance a $500 sub is to a $50 sub...main differences are in marketing and soft parts.
as long as the magnet is strong enough and the coil is of optimum size as well as good metal composition of the top plate.
the soft parts can be replaced and mass added for the sub to peform at desired resonance....i say resonate because air resonates...
manufacturers are going backwards these days, they add multi level spiders lowering the efficiency...why use 2000 watts to put out the same spl as an efficient 500watt sub?
Lol! That is why I want to try a pyramid again...the old one, the 'original paper' one they are coated blue now and about the cheapest ones they have. Back in the day I ran 4 10s on an old school 2x60 or 2x75 and they hammered at 2 ohms. Now I have 4 12s at 420wrms and I am not so sure it does much better. It will hit 30Hz easier and the subs are not near xmax at that wattage....but for all the hassle/power/weight I just don't see the point of it. These are all IB setups. There is about 10dB difference between the infinity and the pyramid (10 more), if they measured both right. You can only go to xmax running IB anyway, so power handling is not really an issue. Yes the pyramid did wear out after a couple/few years, if they are still made the same as 20yr ago but don't know if they are.
youd be surprised how much a sub can change by simply changing the spider...
really though, power handling is the toughest factor to conquer, most subs ive fixed had a failure at the joint where the voice coil wire is bent 90 degrees from the coil, to the run to the tinsels.
the sharp angle results in a bottleneck of heat transfer, just unwind it a bit and make the angle smoother.
the other failure is when the voice coil becomes unwound do to heat, ....just coat the coil in epoxy and it will stay wrapped around the former....5 minute epoxies work just fine, ive taken torches to coils with epoxy coatings and they never burned or melted.
im so glad i started experimenting, ive saved hundreds maybe even thousands of dollars....i'll never go mainstream again.
really though, power handling is the toughest factor to conquer, most subs ive fixed had a failure at the joint where the voice coil wire is bent 90 degrees from the coil, to the run to the tinsels.
the sharp angle results in a bottleneck of heat transfer, just unwind it a bit and make the angle smoother.
the other failure is when the voice coil becomes unwound do to heat, ....just coat the coil in epoxy and it will stay wrapped around the former....5 minute epoxies work just fine, ive taken torches to coils with epoxy coatings and they never burned or melted.
im so glad i started experimenting, ive saved hundreds maybe even thousands of dollars....i'll never go mainstream again.
Clipped, yes the 275hccaG4 and 275SX are two completely different beasts, but the point I am making is that the rail voltage determines power output. In this case both the 275hcca and 275sx are 75 watt per channel amplifiers with identical rail voltage.
I too have wondered why people buy 3000watt subs with 83dB efficiency when they can get the same output with lower power higher efficiency subs. Maybe it is the HUGE rubber surround or the thick paper cone that you can stand on. Or maybe it's the chrome flames that make people buy them.
I just picked up a 1st gen 425HCCA for $130 bucks off ebay and three busted Xtant 4180's for the same price. My shed will be full pretty soon. Maybe after the holidays I will start getting rid of some of my amps...here is a list of what I have.
2-Orion 275sx
2-Orion XTR275
1-Orion 225HCCA
1-Orion 250HCCA
1-MTX 2160
1-MTX 4160
1-ADS PH15
And these are just the amps! I have speakers and other crap too.
I too have wondered why people buy 3000watt subs with 83dB efficiency when they can get the same output with lower power higher efficiency subs. Maybe it is the HUGE rubber surround or the thick paper cone that you can stand on. Or maybe it's the chrome flames that make people buy them.
I just picked up a 1st gen 425HCCA for $130 bucks off ebay and three busted Xtant 4180's for the same price. My shed will be full pretty soon. Maybe after the holidays I will start getting rid of some of my amps...here is a list of what I have.
2-Orion 275sx
2-Orion XTR275
1-Orion 225HCCA
1-Orion 250HCCA
1-MTX 2160
1-MTX 4160
1-ADS PH15
And these are just the amps! I have speakers and other crap too.
if you find a dead 2150sx, send it my way!
i thought power output was determined by both voltage and current output divided by the ohm it goes into. 😕
i thought power output was determined by both voltage and current output divided by the ohm it goes into. 😕
Yes, power is a function of voltage and current (P)ower=I(current)*E(voltage). Ohms law states that if voltage remains constant, then current is determined by the load I=E/R.
That's how HCCA amps make lots of power. "E" remains constant, but "R" is lowered by connecting many speakers in parallel, and "I" therefore increases. Going back to P=IE, if "E" remains constant, but "I" increases, then the "P" also increases.
In a typical amplifier, the rail voltage is constant. Due to amplifier inefficiencies, the rail voltage must be a little higher to make stated power. Also, every time you half the load, the amplfier does not exactly double power, again, due to inefficiencies. To make up for this, the manufacturer raises the rail voltage until it makes stated power into a given load. For example, the 225HCCA is designed to produce 400 watts into 1 ohm mono. At 2 ohm mono, it probably makes 220 watts and at 4 ohm mono, something like 140. In 4 ohm stereo, maybe something like 40 watts.
So making 75 watts into 4 ohms will require the same exact voltage, regardless of make or model.
Do you check ebay regularly for 2150SX amps? I see them come up every now and then, but those huge amps usually come with a hefty price tag.
That's how HCCA amps make lots of power. "E" remains constant, but "R" is lowered by connecting many speakers in parallel, and "I" therefore increases. Going back to P=IE, if "E" remains constant, but "I" increases, then the "P" also increases.
In a typical amplifier, the rail voltage is constant. Due to amplifier inefficiencies, the rail voltage must be a little higher to make stated power. Also, every time you half the load, the amplfier does not exactly double power, again, due to inefficiencies. To make up for this, the manufacturer raises the rail voltage until it makes stated power into a given load. For example, the 225HCCA is designed to produce 400 watts into 1 ohm mono. At 2 ohm mono, it probably makes 220 watts and at 4 ohm mono, something like 140. In 4 ohm stereo, maybe something like 40 watts.
So making 75 watts into 4 ohms will require the same exact voltage, regardless of make or model.
Do you check ebay regularly for 2150SX amps? I see them come up every now and then, but those huge amps usually come with a hefty price tag.
ebays too far from me...check out my flag 😉
then why do the 225 and 250 hcca's both have 22 volt rails???
then why do the 225 and 250 hcca's both have 22 volt rails???
I was wondering the same thing as you. The 225 and 250 should not have the same rail voltage. I'm thinking it should be around 25V, not 22V. I'll find out once I get working on the 250. I'm waiting on parts.
No ebay in Thailand? A while back, I saw some dude selling three brand new 225hcca's on ebay and I think he was from Thailand. My co-workers visit Thailand every chance they get!
No ebay in Thailand? A while back, I saw some dude selling three brand new 225hcca's on ebay and I think he was from Thailand. My co-workers visit Thailand every chance they get!
we can buy things but the shipping and import tax is outrageous. unless the seller overseas declares the item a 'personal item' or 'gift'..the guy you saw selling them might have been 'sqguy' he use to be a part time writer for 12 volts magazine, thailand.
every 2150sx i come across is DOA do to installing below 4 ohms mono...i dont even test them before buying anymore, i know something will be wrong with it.
most of the 225hcca's over here are starting to have problems with the muting circuit, the epidemic started about two years ago....a snip here and a snip there and voila! its working again. 😀 those jfets in the circuit are extremely hard to find, i found like 12 of them once and they were all defective.
friends visit thailand often ehh? i wonder why lol... 😉
im pretty sure the 250hcca has 22 volt rails, could be wrong though, never know...
every 2150sx i come across is DOA do to installing below 4 ohms mono...i dont even test them before buying anymore, i know something will be wrong with it.
most of the 225hcca's over here are starting to have problems with the muting circuit, the epidemic started about two years ago....a snip here and a snip there and voila! its working again. 😀 those jfets in the circuit are extremely hard to find, i found like 12 of them once and they were all defective.
friends visit thailand often ehh? i wonder why lol... 😉
im pretty sure the 250hcca has 22 volt rails, could be wrong though, never know...
which jfets are you talking about? the mpsa06/56 or the mpsu07/57?
On all three amps, I went ahead and changed the 06/56 jfets in the power supply section before installing the power supply fets. If you need some, I'm sure I can send a handful your way as a "gift." I get them pretty cheap.
On the 225 these are also used on the output side and on the 250, they use the 07/57 drivers. Are these the ones used in with the muting circuit?
On all three amps, I went ahead and changed the 06/56 jfets in the power supply section before installing the power supply fets. If you need some, I'm sure I can send a handful your way as a "gift." I get them pretty cheap.
On the 225 these are also used on the output side and on the 250, they use the 07/57 drivers. Are these the ones used in with the muting circuit?
The A06/A56/U07/U57 are BJTs, not jfets. The jfets are used in the muting circuit. They are generally 2N5639s.
http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/2N5638-D.PDF
http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/2N5638-D.PDF
^^^ what Perry said...
thanks for the offer though, as far as those A05, A056's those little things are like roaches in my room, wherever i look there seems to be one laying around with twisted legs, kinda like a dead roach laying upside down...
thanks for the offer though, as far as those A05, A056's those little things are like roaches in my room, wherever i look there seems to be one laying around with twisted legs, kinda like a dead roach laying upside down...
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