That's more or less the design I had in mind, with the 2 bridges. The photo's of the various completed designs are great to see the circuit required in real life.
This site has tought me a lot, very detailed text about power supplies.
Doing the calculations on this site (for cap size/transformer size) also show that the calculations on this thread are correct.
To get the max out of 40V secondaries at 3ohms, I'm looking at 30.000uF per rail, for 2 modules. 1000VA should indeed be plenty!
Jan-Peter, i'm ordering soon! 😀
Rha61, what is a "snubber"?
This site has tought me a lot, very detailed text about power supplies.
Doing the calculations on this site (for cap size/transformer size) also show that the calculations on this thread are correct.
To get the max out of 40V secondaries at 3ohms, I'm looking at 30.000uF per rail, for 2 modules. 1000VA should indeed be plenty!
Jan-Peter, i'm ordering soon! 😀
Rha61, what is a "snubber"?
Hi,
Voltages are high enough that your hands dont' have to be very sweaty, or directly across the terminals. There's the possibility of getting the shock of a lifetime while trying to connect a lightbulb, or anything to drain it. Any part of the case/ground with either of the rails will do the trick nicely, across both rails would be even better.
People get tired, lose concentration, make mistakes. Some people attempting these modules don't even know what PSU means, they wont' know what dielectric saturation is. If you don't think it's much of a gamble in your case with your level of expertise that's one thing, for others this might not be the case, and not having them is a safety risk.
The constant current drain of bleeders under normal operation is insignificant. You said yourself it wouldn't help regulation in any way, because it's not loading it, and therefore wastes no capacity worth mentioning.
Are you going to make the argument that they degrade the sound somehow?
Besides, it's probably the cheapest life insurance anyone can ever have.
Regards
UCD 400
hello to all!
it would be thankful somebody advised to me on as is the best power supply for mono UCD 400 kit.
which are the final conclusions about power supli?
which is the best configuration for the power supply?
which are the best materials?
Thanks and a greeting!
hello to all!
it would be thankful somebody advised to me on as is the best power supply for mono UCD 400 kit.
which are the final conclusions about power supli?
which is the best configuration for the power supply?
which are the best materials?
Thanks and a greeting!
@Ampli,
I'm new here as well, and asked myself the same questions. After reading through this and other threads, I believe there is no "magic setup", it depends on your needs.
For example, driving 16 ohm speakers or 4 ohm speakers would already make a difference in your transformer and caps.
However, look back in this thread for some calculations and tips, and you'll find your path to UcD.
I believe I've found mine, for my particular setup: with my speakers dipping to 3.3 ohms, and my wish to allow maximum output without problems on the power supply (even when I'm NEVER going to drive it even near it's maximum, it's a psychological effect), my choices are these:
* 2 channel UcD400
* 1000VA toroidal with 2x40V secondaries (maybe 35, not sure yet) - Overkill? Yes maybe, and costly as well, but I'll never worry if I turn up the volume.
* 33.000uF caps per rail - this will allow full power operation up to 3 ohms load if I made my calculations correctly. Practically, it will be 3x10.000uF and maybe a 4700uF per rail
* Soft Start, based on a kit, or on a digital delayed relay, like Per-Anders' design (no idea how he did it though, i'm mailing him for help)
* DC output protection (Velleman Kit, if it's worth something - Check it out )
Ampli, share with us which speakers you will drive?
Yves
I'm new here as well, and asked myself the same questions. After reading through this and other threads, I believe there is no "magic setup", it depends on your needs.
For example, driving 16 ohm speakers or 4 ohm speakers would already make a difference in your transformer and caps.
However, look back in this thread for some calculations and tips, and you'll find your path to UcD.
I believe I've found mine, for my particular setup: with my speakers dipping to 3.3 ohms, and my wish to allow maximum output without problems on the power supply (even when I'm NEVER going to drive it even near it's maximum, it's a psychological effect), my choices are these:
* 2 channel UcD400
* 1000VA toroidal with 2x40V secondaries (maybe 35, not sure yet) - Overkill? Yes maybe, and costly as well, but I'll never worry if I turn up the volume.
* 33.000uF caps per rail - this will allow full power operation up to 3 ohms load if I made my calculations correctly. Practically, it will be 3x10.000uF and maybe a 4700uF per rail
* Soft Start, based on a kit, or on a digital delayed relay, like Per-Anders' design (no idea how he did it though, i'm mailing him for help)
* DC output protection (Velleman Kit, if it's worth something - Check it out )
Ampli, share with us which speakers you will drive?
Yves
digital amplifier
Hello Yves Smolders !!!
I am very happy of which you respond to me. My system will be active, wiht 4 vias:
2 -- visaton MHT-12
2 -- You are M15ch
2 -- Dynaudio 20w75
2 -- peerless XLS 12"
2 -- Crossover to behringer 2496 digital
I need to mount 4 estereo amplifiers for my system. I thought about 3 UCD 180 and 1 UCD 400. I want to mount kit´s with the best power supplies than it´s possible, without limitations.
P.D: Sorry about my english. I speak a little bit english
Thanks and a greeting!
Hello Yves Smolders !!!
I am very happy of which you respond to me. My system will be active, wiht 4 vias:
2 -- visaton MHT-12
2 -- You are M15ch
2 -- Dynaudio 20w75
2 -- peerless XLS 12"
2 -- Crossover to behringer 2496 digital
I need to mount 4 estereo amplifiers for my system. I thought about 3 UCD 180 and 1 UCD 400. I want to mount kit´s with the best power supplies than it´s possible, without limitations.
P.D: Sorry about my english. I speak a little bit english
Thanks and a greeting!
Broadly speaking, although one can tune a little here and there, I think most people will be extremely happy with a standard power supply kit from Jan-Peter. He will sell you two bridge rectifiers and a pair of 10,000uF caps which will be quite sufficient unless you are driving the amps quite hard.
In an active setup like yours, then each amp is going to be idling and there really is far less need to go exotic in the way someone with a very insensitive pair of speakers and passive crossover might
Depending where you plan to cross your speakers over I would suggest perhaps as few as two powersupplies driving 4 modules each! Oversize the caps on the bass amplifier box, but you can be less concerned about the treble amps.
If price was less of a problem then just step up from there. Basically beef up the number of caps on the bass speakers. For the treble and mid range you could get more seperation by using more powersupplies and perhaps even seperate supplies left and right. At the limit you would have one torroid and two caps (10-15,000+ each) on each UCD.
Just pick where you want to be somewhere between those limits. However, for a decent active system I personally think there is far less need to fiddle with exotic components, just make sure you basically have beefy enough powersupplies and large enough caps.
A friend of mine powers something like 10 tripath amps using a pair of 2Kva transformers and 4 of those huge Rifa 47,000uF caps. The amps are clearly not the limiting factor in his setup!!
In an active setup like yours, then each amp is going to be idling and there really is far less need to go exotic in the way someone with a very insensitive pair of speakers and passive crossover might
Depending where you plan to cross your speakers over I would suggest perhaps as few as two powersupplies driving 4 modules each! Oversize the caps on the bass amplifier box, but you can be less concerned about the treble amps.
If price was less of a problem then just step up from there. Basically beef up the number of caps on the bass speakers. For the treble and mid range you could get more seperation by using more powersupplies and perhaps even seperate supplies left and right. At the limit you would have one torroid and two caps (10-15,000+ each) on each UCD.
Just pick where you want to be somewhere between those limits. However, for a decent active system I personally think there is far less need to fiddle with exotic components, just make sure you basically have beefy enough powersupplies and large enough caps.
A friend of mine powers something like 10 tripath amps using a pair of 2Kva transformers and 4 of those huge Rifa 47,000uF caps. The amps are clearly not the limiting factor in his setup!!
Hello!!
I only want to build the best power supli for the UCD 400. I want to build 6 ucd 180 monoblock and 2 UCD 400 monoblock.
Can i buy this power supli tested?
Thank´s
I only want to build the best power supli for the UCD 400. I want to build 6 ucd 180 monoblock and 2 UCD 400 monoblock.
Can i buy this power supli tested?
Thank´s
Hi,
Building and buying are kind of different.
That said, for the UCD180's, schuro's has some high end supplies for you, arguably using the best parts you can get. I think you still need a transformer, I'm sure others who've dealt with them will be more informative about their supplies.
The Schuro supplies will not work for the voltage level of the UCD400 though, so you'll have to build at least one of your own anyway.
I'd link you to their supply but I don't understand the language on their website to be able to find it, sorry.
Building and buying are kind of different.
That said, for the UCD180's, schuro's has some high end supplies for you, arguably using the best parts you can get. I think you still need a transformer, I'm sure others who've dealt with them will be more informative about their supplies.
The Schuro supplies will not work for the voltage level of the UCD400 though, so you'll have to build at least one of your own anyway.
I'd link you to their supply but I don't understand the language on their website to be able to find it, sorry.
Hello!
where can I obtain the scheme of the best power supli for a mono UCD 400? What is the best material than I can buy to build the power supli?
Thank´s!!!!
where can I obtain the scheme of the best power supli for a mono UCD 400? What is the best material than I can buy to build the power supli?
Thank´s!!!!
@Ampli,
There's a lots of schematics and links in this thread, just take your time and read a lot, it helped me...
There's a lots of schematics and links in this thread, just take your time and read a lot, it helped me...
Yves, you can't really jump in at the last page of a very long thread on building UCD powersupplies and just expect to be spoon fed the details on the very best power supply in the world...
Jan-Peter will sell you the parts for a very reasonable powersupply. Once you try to go beyond that then you are into heresay and speculation and experimentation.
Personally I think that the amp is the least important thing in your system. With an 8 amp active setup you have a very high quality system which should experience very low distortion levels. You should spend more time (IMHO) on the active crossover and measuring gear to do some EQ, and of course on the boxes for the speakers. There will be far more to gain there.
Jan-Peter will sell you the parts for a very reasonable powersupply. Once you try to go beyond that then you are into heresay and speculation and experimentation.
Personally I think that the amp is the least important thing in your system. With an 8 amp active setup you have a very high quality system which should experience very low distortion levels. You should spend more time (IMHO) on the active crossover and measuring gear to do some EQ, and of course on the boxes for the speakers. There will be far more to gain there.
Hi ewildgoose,
I think you directed that last post to the wrong guy. I fully agree though, no spoonfeeding, there's so much information here already, and all one has to do is go and get it! I think Yves would agree with that.
From what I can tell Yves has been doing an impressive amount of homework in a short time, which makes people alot more willing to answer his questions too.
Ampli, I really think you ought to read this thread very carefully before you proceed, then you'll know exactly what you're doing and why you're doing it, and you'll know there's no such thing as "the perfect supply". You'll then be able to ask far better questions.
Somebody else's "perfect supply" very well may not match your own goals/system/taste, ears.. So don't just go and copy what you saw someone else do, learn about it instead, then make your choices. No spoonfeeding, you have all kinds of options.
Also, even with something that might approach a "perfect supply" like those from schuro, it won't mean anything if you don't use proper techniques in implementing it. That includes everything from how you place them in the case right down to safety.
Do some research on proper layout and wiring techniques, you'll be needing to know it.
If none of that is convincing enough for you to make you read this thread, then I'll just tell you that within this thread, there is 1 "perfect" supply, somewhere. Oh, and in the UCD180 thread, there is one "perfect" amplifier, just like the one you want to build. Happy reading and see you next month.
Regards
Chris
I think you directed that last post to the wrong guy. I fully agree though, no spoonfeeding, there's so much information here already, and all one has to do is go and get it! I think Yves would agree with that.
From what I can tell Yves has been doing an impressive amount of homework in a short time, which makes people alot more willing to answer his questions too.
Ampli, I really think you ought to read this thread very carefully before you proceed, then you'll know exactly what you're doing and why you're doing it, and you'll know there's no such thing as "the perfect supply". You'll then be able to ask far better questions.
Somebody else's "perfect supply" very well may not match your own goals/system/taste, ears.. So don't just go and copy what you saw someone else do, learn about it instead, then make your choices. No spoonfeeding, you have all kinds of options.
Also, even with something that might approach a "perfect supply" like those from schuro, it won't mean anything if you don't use proper techniques in implementing it. That includes everything from how you place them in the case right down to safety.
Do some research on proper layout and wiring techniques, you'll be needing to know it.
If none of that is convincing enough for you to make you read this thread, then I'll just tell you that within this thread, there is 1 "perfect" supply, somewhere. Oh, and in the UCD180 thread, there is one "perfect" amplifier, just like the one you want to build. Happy reading and see you next month.
Regards
Chris
(Sorry for the previous misdirected posting)
That being said, I would like to see some more PCB layouts for UCD PS designs that were easy to copy. Someone posted (I think in this thread) a nice PCB design including Jan-Peters suggested shutdown circuitry. I'm not sure why "we" never did more to encourage that to become a more widely available and built design.
Personally I want my amps to be as small and neat as possible and be a little bit safer, so a PCB based PS is preferable to a bunch of soldered wires.
I personally want 2 to 4 caps per channel, so that previous PCB based design was very interesting, he had a board which could be used for either dual mono or a pair of amps.
I will still say though that these modules are extremely good even with an undersized powersupply. With an active system and so many amps just idling away, I really don't expect your amplifiers to be an area that require much attention. Just one large left and one large right supply would likely be quite sufficient to drive 4 modules per side to far higher quality than any commercial rig (for sensible money)
Good luck
That being said, I would like to see some more PCB layouts for UCD PS designs that were easy to copy. Someone posted (I think in this thread) a nice PCB design including Jan-Peters suggested shutdown circuitry. I'm not sure why "we" never did more to encourage that to become a more widely available and built design.
Personally I want my amps to be as small and neat as possible and be a little bit safer, so a PCB based PS is preferable to a bunch of soldered wires.
I personally want 2 to 4 caps per channel, so that previous PCB based design was very interesting, he had a board which could be used for either dual mono or a pair of amps.
I will still say though that these modules are extremely good even with an undersized powersupply. With an active system and so many amps just idling away, I really don't expect your amplifiers to be an area that require much attention. Just one large left and one large right supply would likely be quite sufficient to drive 4 modules per side to far higher quality than any commercial rig (for sensible money)
Good luck
No need for sorry, aside from the name it was well on target I think.
I know what you're talking about, but I don't see or recall there being anything at all about any kind of shut down circuitry?
The good news is according to post #96 of this thread he was just waiting on some modules to test them with, that only happened this week so maybe we'll see something soon.
I know he's still paying attention to the ol forums here 🙂
Want to drool over it some more?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=534781#post534781
If I were ever tempted to use snap in's I'd be going for these too, or something very similar.
I wonder what they'd be worth ?
Cheers
I know what you're talking about, but I don't see or recall there being anything at all about any kind of shut down circuitry?
The good news is according to post #96 of this thread he was just waiting on some modules to test them with, that only happened this week so maybe we'll see something soon.
I know he's still paying attention to the ol forums here 🙂
Want to drool over it some more?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=534781#post534781
If I were ever tempted to use snap in's I'd be going for these too, or something very similar.
I wonder what they'd be worth ?
Cheers
OK, to come back to slow start/DC protection, I'm looking at this:
Slow-Start
It's in dutch but the schematic speaks for itself!
Seems very easy to build!
As for DC protection, I'd like to use Velleman M4701B
These are the specs:
...and on another site it is spec'd as "300W"
Would this be sufficient for UcD400? Can't find schematics for this one but it's cheap.
Slow-Start
It's in dutch but the schematic speaks for itself!
Seems very easy to build!
As for DC protection, I'd like to use Velleman M4701B
These are the specs:
...and on another site it is spec'd as "300W"
Would this be sufficient for UcD400? Can't find schematics for this one but it's cheap.
Gentlemen:
This thread is for optimal supply design. I personally will go the easy way and copy the basic supply from hypex' diagram, in mono configuration, with the best parts I find. What I won't do is make a PCB. My ears seem sensitive to wiring, even internal. Maybe this opinion is revealing my audiophile past (or present) and will be out of place in this forum 😀
As I find power cords make a difference, why don't experiment on power supply cabling? I don't remember this topic touched on this thread, OR WAS IT?
Yves Smolder:
You surelly will have to tell us how the DC protection works.
Nice soft-start. They sell only the PCB, wright?
I bought an "active" soft start: it has his own TX and transistors. It has worked very well but I supose it is inyecting some noise to the circuit. At least the kit has all the parts.
I'll have to search a soft-start like yours but with complete parts.
Have fun.
This thread is for optimal supply design. I personally will go the easy way and copy the basic supply from hypex' diagram, in mono configuration, with the best parts I find. What I won't do is make a PCB. My ears seem sensitive to wiring, even internal. Maybe this opinion is revealing my audiophile past (or present) and will be out of place in this forum 😀
As I find power cords make a difference, why don't experiment on power supply cabling? I don't remember this topic touched on this thread, OR WAS IT?
Yves Smolder:
You surelly will have to tell us how the DC protection works.
Nice soft-start. They sell only the PCB, wright?
I bought an "active" soft start: it has his own TX and transistors. It has worked very well but I supose it is inyecting some noise to the circuit. At least the kit has all the parts.
I'll have to search a soft-start like yours but with complete parts.
Have fun.
Just think about the wiring quality behind the power connector, in the walls, etc... I'm not going to further elaborate my opinion on this matter 😉
The soft start is good, but i'm not sure it's perfect. What if the caps are loaded, and one disconnects the power supply shortly ("brown-out" or short blackout) - there would be no delay, the relay closes immediatly.
I'm going the timer/relay way, maybe more costly but it'll work.
Awaiting my modules 😀
Hi all!
I'm here!! 😉
I'm still waiting about the UCD, but my order is in progress, hope receive them in one week (I order 4 UCD180 and 4 UCD400)
A new PSU design is in progress, and it will be possible to use a lot of caps kind :
BHC ALP22 (35 and 40mm cans)
BHC ALC10C (35 and 40mm cans)
BCH ALC10S
BHC ALP20
BHC ALN20 (T-network)
Philips BC051/053
Panasonic TSHA
and all the snap-in caps with 10mm pitch (max diameter can : 40mm)
I add footprints for snubber near output connectors and SMD 1206 footprint for decoupling caps near output connectors too.
BTW, just receive my Soft start PCB :
😉
I'm here!! 😉
I'm still waiting about the UCD, but my order is in progress, hope receive them in one week (I order 4 UCD180 and 4 UCD400)
A new PSU design is in progress, and it will be possible to use a lot of caps kind :
BHC ALP22 (35 and 40mm cans)
BHC ALC10C (35 and 40mm cans)
BCH ALC10S
BHC ALP20
BHC ALN20 (T-network)
Philips BC051/053
Panasonic TSHA
and all the snap-in caps with 10mm pitch (max diameter can : 40mm)
I add footprints for snubber near output connectors and SMD 1206 footprint for decoupling caps near output connectors too.
BTW, just receive my Soft start PCB :
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
😉
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