Hi,
as soon as the new house will be finally finished (it is becoming an epopee), I will have a FHXL with MA11MS and a Silbury with MA10.3.
I would like what are the optimal choices for the amps to be connected to those speakers.
Are class D amps acceptable? It would be handy for everyday short listening.
Tube PP with EL84 or 6V6GT (Zout around 4 Ohm) is what I would use when I want to enjoy the music.
Tube SE project will be delayed to the end of the year, so not an option by now.
I would like to have designers reply, but also users' ones.
Thanks in advance,
Roberto
as soon as the new house will be finally finished (it is becoming an epopee), I will have a FHXL with MA11MS and a Silbury with MA10.3.
I would like what are the optimal choices for the amps to be connected to those speakers.
Are class D amps acceptable? It would be handy for everyday short listening.
Tube PP with EL84 or 6V6GT (Zout around 4 Ohm) is what I would use when I want to enjoy the music.
Tube SE project will be delayed to the end of the year, so not an option by now.
I would like to have designers reply, but also users' ones.
Thanks in advance,
Roberto
A good one. Silberry might be a bit more finicky than FHXL. The latter more capable of adjustments to compensate for different Rout
Class D, Class AB, Class A… execution is very important...
Personally i like Class A, i have a SIT-3 and an EL84 PP triode that sound very close. But even my chip amp sounds good and surprisingly, the little ACA mini Nelson built me is still sitting on top of the SIT-3 still in use and doing just fine.
I am somewhat still leary of Class D but they keep getting better and i have yet to hear the most hightly lauded ones — i use a small one for my breifcase system. And Scott has a small obscure one he likes.
What other kit do you have?
dave[/sub]
Class D, Class AB, Class A… execution is very important...
Personally i like Class A, i have a SIT-3 and an EL84 PP triode that sound very close. But even my chip amp sounds good and surprisingly, the little ACA mini Nelson built me is still sitting on top of the SIT-3 still in use and doing just fine.
I am somewhat still leary of Class D but they keep getting better and i have yet to hear the most hightly lauded ones — i use a small one for my breifcase system. And Scott has a small obscure one he likes.
What other kit do you have?
dave[/sub]
One option would be the SMSL A100, because I've heard very well about it.
This would be for everyday short listening, and could go with the Silbury if they need low Rout.
Baby Huey EL84 and 6V6GT are the second option (I really like EL84), Tubelab's UNSET is what I plan to build during the winter.
This would be for everyday short listening, and could go with the Silbury if they need low Rout.
Baby Huey EL84 and 6V6GT are the second option (I really like EL84), Tubelab's UNSET is what I plan to build during the winter.
Without re-reading the doc, hopefully this 'family' of formulas is the most you'll need.
upper: Fhm = 2*Fs/Qts'
lower: Flc = Fs*Qts'/2 [normally never used]
Qts': 2*Fs/Fhm
[Qts']: [Qts] + any added series resistance [Rs]: http://www.mh-audio.nl/Calculators/newqts.html
[Rs] = 0.5 ohm minimum for wiring, so may be higher if a super small gauge is used as a series resistor and/or there's other series resistance.
Qes' = Qts'*Qms/[Qms-Qts']
Rs = [[Qes'/Qes]*Re]-Re
Le = 1.592*10-5*(R10k – Re^2)^0.5
Upper HF corner due to VC inductance [H] rolloff: Fhcm = Re/[pi*[Le*1000]]
Upper HF corner due to VC inductance [mH] rolloff: Fhcm = Re/[pi*[Le/1000]]
upper: Fhm = 2*Fs/Qts'
lower: Flc = Fs*Qts'/2 [normally never used]
Qts': 2*Fs/Fhm
[Qts']: [Qts] + any added series resistance [Rs]: http://www.mh-audio.nl/Calculators/newqts.html
[Rs] = 0.5 ohm minimum for wiring, so may be higher if a super small gauge is used as a series resistor and/or there's other series resistance.
Qes' = Qts'*Qms/[Qms-Qts']
Rs = [[Qes'/Qes]*Re]-Re
Le = 1.592*10-5*(R10k – Re^2)^0.5
Upper HF corner due to VC inductance [H] rolloff: Fhcm = Re/[pi*[Le*1000]]
Upper HF corner due to VC inductance [mH] rolloff: Fhcm = Re/[pi*[Le/1000]]
Mark Audio drivers are way less pickey on amps than others, any good amp should drive them. But i prefer also class A or AB, tubes or solid state. But it's not that they sound bad with the different class D amps i tried (SMSL SA36, Hypex UcD, Hypex NCore 400 kit, Behringer A500, ...) it's just that the higher output impendance of tubes and class A make it sound easier to drive, and even class AB transistor does that (in a lesser degree).
They need at least 15w altough, and 25 to 50w is perfect. That A100 did not score very well in measurements when it was tested by ASR, the cheaper AIYIMA A07 was way better as class D amp and should be good for this. And if you can spend more, get the Topping PA5 as it's one of the best measuring class D amps arround and not that expensive (300-350€).
They need at least 15w altough, and 25 to 50w is perfect. That A100 did not score very well in measurements when it was tested by ASR, the cheaper AIYIMA A07 was way better as class D amp and should be good for this. And if you can spend more, get the Topping PA5 as it's one of the best measuring class D amps arround and not that expensive (300-350€).
This is new to me, as I've always heard they need few watts to perform at their best. I could consider the EL34 PP I have, but I would keep it for the two Klipsch that likes some more avsailable power. I will check them all.
The reason why I was considering it for everyday listening is that it has multiple inputs, including the bluetooth.
Using them in the livingroom, I could use them for some movies too.
I've just found I still have a Musical Fidelity V-DACii that could do the job converting the optical out of the TV (to be used for pc music as well.
I've seen it, but that would mean add something more when friends come and want to listen something by connecting their phone while doing other things.
I'd prefer to spend the difference in developing another tube amp I have in mind, rather than in a class D amp.
Thanks Dave, I was exactly talking about you and your small amps.
Can it be due to a different main genre of music,?
Well try it, but i did not like it when i used my small class D amp (12w in 8R). The ACA in stereo modus (class A 7.5) was better, but still to light. I prefer it with higher power amps.
I run them bridged now, but with the big Fane 12-250TC cabinet, the Mark Audios are powerd with an Prima Luna Prologue 4 (push pull tube) and a Marantz PM5004 (AB mosfets) mostly.
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I tested this further. It is easy to push the ACAmini to strain. Time to switch back to SIT-3.
It does have me schemeing on how to use multiple ACAmini in a multi amp situation to improve that.
With 2 woofers and a midTweeter in a WAW one could use 1 amp per loudspeaker, so one for the top and 2 for the bottom.
Take an ACA+ Pre, It creates a nice stack with an ACA. Then a base plate that ties that down and one amp each side rased to the same height (room for a same size active XO and/or a RIAA stage.
Onlt a PFA wild guess on what a complete diyAudio kit is going to be, but say $150 each, plus the pre, use a PLLXO, a pair of nice 3” midTweeters (FF85wk, A5.2/3), say $100 pr, and a quad of Silver FLute W14 (NA, doen’t know how available they are outside of Madisound)or another $100, add a source, and you have a pretty decent frugal-phile™ basis for a system. And if you buy the boards and source the parts even cheaper.
Note: historically i have recommended a minimum 10 watt amplifier but how well an amplifier clips is more relevant than how much power into a resistor.
dave
It does have me schemeing on how to use multiple ACAmini in a multi amp situation to improve that.
With 2 woofers and a midTweeter in a WAW one could use 1 amp per loudspeaker, so one for the top and 2 for the bottom.
Take an ACA+ Pre, It creates a nice stack with an ACA. Then a base plate that ties that down and one amp each side rased to the same height (room for a same size active XO and/or a RIAA stage.
Onlt a PFA wild guess on what a complete diyAudio kit is going to be, but say $150 each, plus the pre, use a PLLXO, a pair of nice 3” midTweeters (FF85wk, A5.2/3), say $100 pr, and a quad of Silver FLute W14 (NA, doen’t know how available they are outside of Madisound)or another $100, add a source, and you have a pretty decent frugal-phile™ basis for a system. And if you buy the boards and source the parts even cheaper.
Note: historically i have recommended a minimum 10 watt amplifier but how well an amplifier clips is more relevant than how much power into a resistor.
dave
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Thanks Dave. I don't know if it is due to the fact that I come from instrument amplification (I built myself guitar and bass amps way before I started building my own Hi-Fi), but I prefer amps that clips (I would say overdives, coming from instrument amps) well, and restore well from clip/overdrive.
Indeed I like alot amps with local feedback over a single gain stage rather than over multiple stages.
But I admit that this is also probably the easiest way to get a good sounding amp, because you "triodize" the gain stages, so the reason I like it that it is easier to make it euphonically clip rather than a more complicated nested nfb amp.