"Are you sure?"
Yes. 😀
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Yes. 😀
Hmm... With an Fs of 41Hz, Qts of 0.65 and an Xmax of nearly 6mm, you should have no problems at all reaching down to 30-35Hz. You may need a little EQ on the low end, but not much.
Also, at 99dB 1W/1M each, you certainly won't have to worry about running out of power anytime soon. Obviously these will be series/parallel wired, but should still be somewhere around 110+dB at 1W/1M?!?!
And one more thing, I wouldn't worry too much about the baffles moving around a whole lot with all the woofers firing in the same direction (as they would have to anyway), because they are going to be so efficient, and it seems that most OB drivers barely move anyway, yours certainly won't be moving enough to move anything on the baffles. Don't get me wrong, you'll feel a lot of vibrations through the baffles, but they won't be shaking all over the place. And I bet you won't see those drivers moving at all, even at very high volumes.
Honestly, I think you're going to have a very nice sounding system there, and you're not going to be expecting the kind of sound that you're going to get out of them. I'm sure you'll report back here saying that you're very surprised, shocked and impressed. I know I did... TWICE! 😀
Also, at 99dB 1W/1M each, you certainly won't have to worry about running out of power anytime soon. Obviously these will be series/parallel wired, but should still be somewhere around 110+dB at 1W/1M?!?!
And one more thing, I wouldn't worry too much about the baffles moving around a whole lot with all the woofers firing in the same direction (as they would have to anyway), because they are going to be so efficient, and it seems that most OB drivers barely move anyway, yours certainly won't be moving enough to move anything on the baffles. Don't get me wrong, you'll feel a lot of vibrations through the baffles, but they won't be shaking all over the place. And I bet you won't see those drivers moving at all, even at very high volumes.
Honestly, I think you're going to have a very nice sounding system there, and you're not going to be expecting the kind of sound that you're going to get out of them. I'm sure you'll report back here saying that you're very surprised, shocked and impressed. I know I did... TWICE! 😀
Hi riff
I got sidetracked a bit with a project for my son-in-law's church. I donated my big bass boxes and some line arrays for their youth group and I bought a coupla A500 amps from Behringer along with a CX3400 XO and and a DEQ1024 unit along with an older B&K EX4420 amp and was given an old Adcom 555 preamp to top off the whole mess. Of course I had to hook it all up and play with it before I gave it all away. 🙂
And then there was the new E-MU 0404 USB soundcard, mic, new measuring software to play with and the weather's been really nasty too. Anyway, I'm ready to mount the drivers so it should be making sound (not necessarily music 🙂 ) this weekend.
I got sidetracked a bit with a project for my son-in-law's church. I donated my big bass boxes and some line arrays for their youth group and I bought a coupla A500 amps from Behringer along with a CX3400 XO and and a DEQ1024 unit along with an older B&K EX4420 amp and was given an old Adcom 555 preamp to top off the whole mess. Of course I had to hook it all up and play with it before I gave it all away. 🙂
And then there was the new E-MU 0404 USB soundcard, mic, new measuring software to play with and the weather's been really nasty too. Anyway, I'm ready to mount the drivers so it should be making sound (not necessarily music 🙂 ) this weekend.
First listen
Finished the first trial OB, and I'm impressed. No lack of bass, no noticable excursion at above normal listening levels, and a finesse that took me totally by surprise. I think I'm gonna get along with OBs just fine. 🙂
I'm crossing at 500hz to the midrange and 1500hz to the waveguide and the woofers are wired parallel/series for 4ohms. The midranges are wired parallel and I left off the cap I had on the second driver when they were in their sealed boxes. I don't seem to need them when they're on the OB. Everything is in it's raw state - no EQ yet - and it's pretty awesome. I really wasn't expecting it to be this good. Anyway, gotta do some measuring I guess; see how bad they really sound. 😀
I'll add some wings to the bass panel, honestly, not because I think it needs it, but just to hear and measure the differences. This is the best first results I've ever had and did I mention that I was impressed? 🙂
Finished the first trial OB, and I'm impressed. No lack of bass, no noticable excursion at above normal listening levels, and a finesse that took me totally by surprise. I think I'm gonna get along with OBs just fine. 🙂
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I'm crossing at 500hz to the midrange and 1500hz to the waveguide and the woofers are wired parallel/series for 4ohms. The midranges are wired parallel and I left off the cap I had on the second driver when they were in their sealed boxes. I don't seem to need them when they're on the OB. Everything is in it's raw state - no EQ yet - and it's pretty awesome. I really wasn't expecting it to be this good. Anyway, gotta do some measuring I guess; see how bad they really sound. 😀
I'll add some wings to the bass panel, honestly, not because I think it needs it, but just to hear and measure the differences. This is the best first results I've ever had and did I mention that I was impressed? 🙂
Re: First listen
Great Job AJ - Ya might want to consider using Lexan to replace the glass after you finish blowing out the windows!AJ said:
Thanks for the inspiration Mike. I would still be putting it off if I hadn't seen your 5-driver contraption.
The coolest thing about these is the naturalness of it. I'm in a pretty small room and I'm only 8 feet away (9 feet when I recline in the Lazy-Boy 🙂 ) and these look like a wall. But the presentation is like a wall too - it's completely encompassing; not like struggling to find a sounstage, but like you're in the middle of it without the nagging notion that you're listening to speakers producing one. It's gotta be the closest thing to real that I've ever heard.
I'm impressed. 🙂
The coolest thing about these is the naturalness of it. I'm in a pretty small room and I'm only 8 feet away (9 feet when I recline in the Lazy-Boy 🙂 ) and these look like a wall. But the presentation is like a wall too - it's completely encompassing; not like struggling to find a sounstage, but like you're in the middle of it without the nagging notion that you're listening to speakers producing one. It's gotta be the closest thing to real that I've ever heard.
I'm impressed. 🙂
Thanks Thomas. I like 'em enough to rebuild them and actually try and make them look nice.
"Ya might want to consider using Lexan to replace the glass after you finish blowing out the windows!"
I was surprised when I heard things on shelves rattling; I wasn't expecting that. I was hoping to get a decent 40hz outta them and I think they're close.
"Ya might want to consider using Lexan to replace the glass after you finish blowing out the windows!"
I was surprised when I heard things on shelves rattling; I wasn't expecting that. I was hoping to get a decent 40hz outta them and I think they're close.
Looks good! Have you had the Hugh Jackman character from Xmen helping you on this project (referring to the 3 parallel scratches on 2 of the panels)?
Thomas - l like that idea. 🙂
Cloth Ears - I didn't even notice it when I bought the plywood. Dark bark sucks, but nothing a little veneer won't cure. 🙂
Cloth Ears - I didn't even notice it when I bought the plywood. Dark bark sucks, but nothing a little veneer won't cure. 🙂
With a bit of tweaking on the crossover and HF (and maybe a sub someday that will keep up- think horn) these beasts will be a true world class pair of loudspeakers. I would make two pair of four parallel wired 12's and then wire the two quads in series with each other. For the money I think it can't be beat. If you were closer I'd have to come over and listen to these- Home Run!!
Re Lazyboy - It now has a built in back massager 😀
Re Lazyboy - It now has a built in back massager 😀
Did a quick look at the listener position with everything completely raw - no eq and all levels on the XO at unity. The bass does look really strong down to 50 hz. This shouldn't be too hard to fix at all. I'm not sure exactly where to mic the array up close; not that it matters all that much as the room is gonna dominate anyway. The recessed midrange probably explains why I don't need the one-driver rolloff.
Green is 1/3 smoothed, grey is 1/24 smoothed. Total spread between the peaks at 70hz, 4khz and the dip at 400 is 13db.
Once again, I'm impressed. Overall, it looks like a good combination of driver sensitivities to start with.
"Re Lazyboy - It now has a built in back massager "
That's gonna be my next audiophile purchase. 😀
Green is 1/3 smoothed, grey is 1/24 smoothed. Total spread between the peaks at 70hz, 4khz and the dip at 400 is 13db.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Once again, I'm impressed. Overall, it looks like a good combination of driver sensitivities to start with.
"Re Lazyboy - It now has a built in back massager "
That's gonna be my next audiophile purchase. 😀
That looks good!
That 5-6k hump will bring in vocal sibilance and 'steely' strings - some people are more irritated by it then others, I'm in that group - Those woofers are better than the Warrior 10's - I get a bigger hump around 70 cycles due to the higher QTS
That 5-6k hump will bring in vocal sibilance and 'steely' strings - some people are more irritated by it then others, I'm in that group - Those woofers are better than the Warrior 10's - I get a bigger hump around 70 cycles due to the higher QTS
"...some people are more irritated by it then others, I'm in that group..."
Me too. I did some coarse adjustments with a DEQ1024 and aside from the extra noise, it just keeps getting better.
Here's something else that could be fun. I muted the midrange out and crossed the woofers to the B&C at 1.5k. The drivers need to be more tightly clustered and maybe work on getting the B&C down to 1khz, but there's some real potential here for a nice two-way.
Me too. I did some coarse adjustments with a DEQ1024 and aside from the extra noise, it just keeps getting better.
Here's something else that could be fun. I muted the midrange out and crossed the woofers to the B&C at 1.5k. The drivers need to be more tightly clustered and maybe work on getting the B&C down to 1khz, but there's some real potential here for a nice two-way.
AJ said:
It would interesting to find out how it sounds like and report back please. This configuration is similar to commercial speakers by Emerald Physics, CS2 model, comp. driver, selenium Ti, D220 with 12in waveguide from PE and twin 15in woofer. X-over at 1 khz using LR24dB, 4th order filter from DCX2496. Many reports suggest they sound really good, and a fair retail price to match.
Two Way
Two Way-
The tens in a line measure well to 1.8K - I think the 12's would be good to around 400 (I ran the 10's up high and didn't like it )then crossed to a line next to them of electrostatic panel like these Just Real panels This guy lives a few miles from me, his panels sound excellent. He (Russ) sells the panel and parts separate. The sensitivity is ok seeing they are a line source and in your room you'd be immersed in near field.
Two Way-
The tens in a line measure well to 1.8K - I think the 12's would be good to around 400 (I ran the 10's up high and didn't like it )then crossed to a line next to them of electrostatic panel like these Just Real panels This guy lives a few miles from me, his panels sound excellent. He (Russ) sells the panel and parts separate. The sensitivity is ok seeing they are a line source and in your room you'd be immersed in near field.
Magnetar,
I am not that familar with sound reproduction from electrostatic speaker(ES). I may be wrong I suspect the ES may sound a little "thinner" when compared to normal paper driver, the latter may sound "fuller" gives a sound which has more body. However the ES will gives a much "cleaner" and "sparking" sound when compared to paper woofer. This is the type of sound which attracts many audiophiles.
Tell me I am wrong! If I am wrong then what is your descriptions?
I am not that familar with sound reproduction from electrostatic speaker(ES). I may be wrong I suspect the ES may sound a little "thinner" when compared to normal paper driver, the latter may sound "fuller" gives a sound which has more body. However the ES will gives a much "cleaner" and "sparking" sound when compared to paper woofer. This is the type of sound which attracts many audiophiles.
Tell me I am wrong! If I am wrong then what is your descriptions?
RE: two-way
Mike and ttan98
Not sure if this is really useful to you because I never actually measured a single driver and I don't really trust a close up measurement of a line with the setup I have. It might be a gross indication of the usable range of the woofers, but not much more.
The purple is at the listening position, the blue is 6 inches in front of the line, and the green is eq'd at the listening position with the line crossed to the B&C at 1.2khz. After listening to a half dozen cds that I know well, here's my thoughts on the two way.
First off, it's not that bad, and if it were the last system on earth to listen to, you'd probably like it. 😀
I think the biggest problem is that a 2way with this setup (line+waveguide+too much distance between everything) is that you're asking too much of the woofers to play too much of the frequency range and you end up losing at both ends. The bass below 100hz starts to muddle, and the midrange loses it's snap and clarity. It's listenable, but I quickly started to want more. It's a case where a flat FR doesn't tell the whole story. 🙂
That's not to say that a better quality woofer might do a little better, but who knows. Personally, I'll stick to the 3way for now.
Mike and ttan98
Not sure if this is really useful to you because I never actually measured a single driver and I don't really trust a close up measurement of a line with the setup I have. It might be a gross indication of the usable range of the woofers, but not much more.
The purple is at the listening position, the blue is 6 inches in front of the line, and the green is eq'd at the listening position with the line crossed to the B&C at 1.2khz. After listening to a half dozen cds that I know well, here's my thoughts on the two way.
First off, it's not that bad, and if it were the last system on earth to listen to, you'd probably like it. 😀
I think the biggest problem is that a 2way with this setup (line+waveguide+too much distance between everything) is that you're asking too much of the woofers to play too much of the frequency range and you end up losing at both ends. The bass below 100hz starts to muddle, and the midrange loses it's snap and clarity. It's listenable, but I quickly started to want more. It's a case where a flat FR doesn't tell the whole story. 🙂
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
That's not to say that a better quality woofer might do a little better, but who knows. Personally, I'll stick to the 3way for now.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.