Hello, I am looking for help in regards to an open baffle design. I am trying to find a good coaxial candidate but am having no luck. Full range seems to be the only option besides a two or three way. I am planning on using these- AE Speakers Online Store - For bass. They are specifically designed for open baffle use.
If you have any suggestions for the best drivers and or combinations I would be grateful.
I am open to designs with planar transducers, full range drivers, and really anything else.
Thank you.
If you have any suggestions for the best drivers and or combinations I would be grateful.
I am open to designs with planar transducers, full range drivers, and really anything else.
Thank you.
I think you could substitute the fe103 with an Alpair 10.3 using the same crossover parts for a more ROBUST speaker, this would raise the cost though.
Larry
Larry
Have you seen this thread ?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/242292-coaxial-drivers-horn-high-frequency-new-post.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/242292-coaxial-drivers-horn-high-frequency-new-post.html
I have not read that before, thanks. I was wondering about coaxials but usually I can't find one with high enough qts to be used in an open baffle(though since I am using bass drivers is the necessary now?)
I was looking at a 15 inch paudio driver and some say it is shouty. It all depends on the crossover they say.
I was looking at a 15 inch paudio driver and some say it is shouty. It all depends on the crossover they say.
A shouty driver is because of cone breakup and if you cross over well before that you might be able to avoid a problem. However I always feel that if a driver sounds terrible without any crossover then you shouldn't be using it ! Very peaky break up is hard to handle and could still colour the sound even with a crossover.
As far as tweeters are concerned you should listen to them with the appropriate crossover and see how they sound. They will be tinny of course but if they tend to spit or sound unpleasant in any way it could be because of the cross over frequency and the rate of roll off of the crossover. Use what others have tried and recommend.
We don't have a very wide choice of plywood here but MDF is freely available. While testing I would use 3/4 inch MDF for the baffle with stiffening supports and later when I finalize it I'll probably try a sandwich baffle with sand filling in between. Like what G.A.Briggs and others did a long time ago.
Note that MDF seems better damped than ply. Just tap it and see. But ply could be stiffer than MDF. Maybe a sandwich of ply/sand/MDF ?
As far as tweeters are concerned you should listen to them with the appropriate crossover and see how they sound. They will be tinny of course but if they tend to spit or sound unpleasant in any way it could be because of the cross over frequency and the rate of roll off of the crossover. Use what others have tried and recommend.
We don't have a very wide choice of plywood here but MDF is freely available. While testing I would use 3/4 inch MDF for the baffle with stiffening supports and later when I finalize it I'll probably try a sandwich baffle with sand filling in between. Like what G.A.Briggs and others did a long time ago.
Note that MDF seems better damped than ply. Just tap it and see. But ply could be stiffer than MDF. Maybe a sandwich of ply/sand/MDF ?
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Note that Fs falls and Qts rises when a bass driver is installed on a baffle. You might also find some people reporting that they got better sound with Qts that isn't too high like 0.8 to 1.0 etc. So something between 0.5 and 0.7 might be better I guess.
One 18 inch driver on a baffle had it's Qts go up from about 0.6 in open air to about 0.8 . So you need to measure TS parameters on a baffle that you want to use.
One 18 inch driver on a baffle had it's Qts go up from about 0.6 in open air to about 0.8 . So you need to measure TS parameters on a baffle that you want to use.
I heard that using mdf stand alone muffles the sound or something. Maybe using a combination would be good too. Mdf sure is alot more affordable than Baltic birch plywood!
Using a sand sandwich sounds interesting. I'll have to consider it, thank you. Of course i'll have to paint it some flat color as veneer is about as expensive as the wood itself. 🙂
Maybe I can do a piano black paint job! Another challenge.
Any coaxials or fullranges you have had success with?
Does lowes have good plywood suitable for this? They can deliver to my house it looks like. 3/4x48x96 for $32.97 plus shipping. Of course if we were sandwiching them and sand inbetween they wouldnt need to be so thick? Maybe 1/2" or would we still just use a 3/4" sand and another 3/4" piece?
Using a sand sandwich sounds interesting. I'll have to consider it, thank you. Of course i'll have to paint it some flat color as veneer is about as expensive as the wood itself. 🙂
Maybe I can do a piano black paint job! Another challenge.
Any coaxials or fullranges you have had success with?
Does lowes have good plywood suitable for this? They can deliver to my house it looks like. 3/4x48x96 for $32.97 plus shipping. Of course if we were sandwiching them and sand inbetween they wouldnt need to be so thick? Maybe 1/2" or would we still just use a 3/4" sand and another 3/4" piece?
Remember that most commercial loudspeakers cabinets are made of MDF. Many are very good too !
I would use two layers of 3/4 inch MDF and a spacer of 3/4 inch MDF. Over all it would become 2 1/4 inch thick. You will need to design the spacer carefully to ensure that when you put in the sand it will be able to flow completely into the empty space. You should also be careful because the panel would become pretty heavy as the sand fills up. Might be useful to have a helping hand around.
But before doing all that build a cheap thin ply version to see if everything fits and works OK. Buy used 1/2 inch or thinner ply for this. Of course with big and heavy bass drivers you can't use very thin ply.
I just bought an Eminence Beta CX-10 ( 10 inch) driver with a Eminence ASD1001 compression driver. The CX-10 has a horn built into it and has a screw mount for the ASD1001 on it's rear. I like what I hear.It certainly is not shouty !
I will be doing some testing soon. Right now it's being run in with music and TV sounds without any baffle!
The bass will be handled by a separate sub. Not sure right now if it will be a dipole or a sealed sub. Depends on how low the CX-10 will go with some equalisation. The Qts is 0.39 on the data sheet.
I would use two layers of 3/4 inch MDF and a spacer of 3/4 inch MDF. Over all it would become 2 1/4 inch thick. You will need to design the spacer carefully to ensure that when you put in the sand it will be able to flow completely into the empty space. You should also be careful because the panel would become pretty heavy as the sand fills up. Might be useful to have a helping hand around.
But before doing all that build a cheap thin ply version to see if everything fits and works OK. Buy used 1/2 inch or thinner ply for this. Of course with big and heavy bass drivers you can't use very thin ply.
I just bought an Eminence Beta CX-10 ( 10 inch) driver with a Eminence ASD1001 compression driver. The CX-10 has a horn built into it and has a screw mount for the ASD1001 on it's rear. I like what I hear.It certainly is not shouty !
I will be doing some testing soon. Right now it's being run in with music and TV sounds without any baffle!
The bass will be handled by a separate sub. Not sure right now if it will be a dipole or a sealed sub. Depends on how low the CX-10 will go with some equalisation. The Qts is 0.39 on the data sheet.
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Very good idea. Thank you for the advice.
Wow! That's affordable. Shows that not all expensive things are superior.
Wow! That's affordable. Shows that not all expensive things are superior.
I was playing with A10.2 and Alphas 15 in U-frame all last weekend. Unfortunately, I think that 10.2 is too small to play good with 15'' woofer. It is kinda ok, but just doesnt give you that big sound you get from a bigger driver(beta 12 lta for example). IMHO, 8" is a min size for a mid driver to mate with 15" woofer.
If you're looking for purpose built OB drivers,.. These seem to fit the bill,.. Though I haven't heard them
Hawthorne Audio - Drivers
I have a project drawn up I intend to build before the weather gets too cold. I am hopeful that good drivers, regardless of Qts, can be used on open baffle. Basically it's a 20" x 40" baffle with a powered 15" 'helper' woofer - also open baffle. Since using a typical sub amp on the 15" woofer its response will be adjustable from approx 200Hz down. My hope is that even low Qts drivers (such as the Fostex 165k) will produce strong sound to 200Hz. My sims look promising and I hope it works.
I prepairing to build an open baffle with the shape simillar Trio 15(pure audio project). But the woofer Eminiance Alpha 15 seem doesn't weel review before on OB design (muddy). Please advise few model suitble for OB especially parallel woofer and fullrange.
I'm not yet buil OB so alot of question in my mind and confusing on chosing driver as well as xover point of frequency.
Well come all suggestion.
Thank you.
I'm not yet buil OB so alot of question in my mind and confusing on chosing driver as well as xover point of frequency.
Well come all suggestion.
Thank you.
I have built OB woofers using the slot loaded OB (SLOB) concept. I got the idea from Nelson Pass' slot loaded OB design but implemented it in a narrow 12 in wide baffle with good bass extension. It uses many smaller woofers in a push pull force canceling configuration which also provides a reduction in second order suspension introduced distortion. The added benefit is that the drivers are mounted 90 deg relative to the baffle face and this keeps the baffle narrow. The bass quality is exceptionally good and very articulate with a very realistic presentation of the soundstage. My concept uses the low cost Vifa TC9FD for the fullrange which works very well. Recently I am using a PRV 5MR450-NDY for the top and that sounds exceptionally good with harmonic distortion at -60dB referenced to 90 dB SPL at 1m.
More details on the SLOB here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/249984-cheap-fast-ob-literally.html
Ztransform has also made a similar design (independently) and he also ended up using the TC9FD for the tops. More info here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/252593-novel-open-baffle-construction-techniques-3.html
There is something very visceral about the bass from a SLOB when used with a good full range driver. The dynamics are just really superb and there is an immediacy to the sound with percussion transients reproduced with excellent realism. The extension down to 30 Hz is achieved using high Qts woofers without equalization even. Here is the response I achieved with 5MR450-NDY and a $60 class D 2.1 amp with built in XO (tops run full range, woofer with built in amp low pass XO):
More info on the the 5MR450-NDY driver can be found here (as a 95dB sensitive 200Hz to 15kHz capable driver with ultra low distortion and smooth response, it is in my opinion, one of the best drivers as the top on a 2 way FAST OB): http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/259293-prv-5mr450-ndy-fast-applications.html
More details on the SLOB here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/249984-cheap-fast-ob-literally.html
Ztransform has also made a similar design (independently) and he also ended up using the TC9FD for the tops. More info here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/252593-novel-open-baffle-construction-techniques-3.html
There is something very visceral about the bass from a SLOB when used with a good full range driver. The dynamics are just really superb and there is an immediacy to the sound with percussion transients reproduced with excellent realism. The extension down to 30 Hz is achieved using high Qts woofers without equalization even. Here is the response I achieved with 5MR450-NDY and a $60 class D 2.1 amp with built in XO (tops run full range, woofer with built in amp low pass XO):
More info on the the 5MR450-NDY driver can be found here (as a 95dB sensitive 200Hz to 15kHz capable driver with ultra low distortion and smooth response, it is in my opinion, one of the best drivers as the top on a 2 way FAST OB): http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/259293-prv-5mr450-ndy-fast-applications.html
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